# Better Conservatives? Where?! (A response to Coffeecat) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 30, 2018, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208 "2018-09-30T08:43:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 40
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/781 "2018-10-12T21:43:18Z")
Oh, and I just noticed. Fluke was making an argument about catholicism as a Catholic to her Church which is against birth control. As a Catholic, offended at a fellow Catholic’s argument about Catholicism, I expressed my displeasure. According to your criteria, you should not have criticized my comments. This is ridiculous of course. You have every right. It is stupid to suggest that my comments were one dimensionally Catholic. Similarly, there are a lot of other things going on with Kanye and the commentators. Refusing to comment, as if it were one dimensionally about blackness is similarly flawed. You got politics, celebrity, individuality, free speech, socioeconomic status, etc etc all mixed up in the fray. To say this is about blackness is to be overly focused on race to the exclusion of all else. This is not quite, but suspiciously close to racism. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/782 "2018-10-12T21:45:12Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Kanye making my arguments for me is a scary thing. Live by the Kanye, die by the Kanye. ``` WALDORF: He's a credit to his race. STATLER: What race is that? WALDORF: The One hundred yard dash. ``` ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/783 "2018-10-12T21:46:13Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I don’t recall any of the commentator’s calling him “Uncle Tom”. And yes, the same words can reasonably be interpreted and judged differently when coming from different people, in some circumstances, IMO. > > But none of this changes the fact that I’m not going to comment on something I feel that I have nothing substantive to offer. I think the Uncle Tom thing is strongly implied. As I said, I’m not trying to make you comment. Your reasons for being unwilling to do so are more interesting. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/784 "2018-10-12T21:58:12Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Oh, and I just noticed. Fluke was making an argument about catholicism as a Catholic to her Church which is against birth control. As a Catholic, offended at a fellow Catholic’s argument about Catholicism, I expressed my displeasure. > > According to your criteria, you should not have criticized my comments. > > This is ridiculous of course. You have every right. It is stupid to suggest that my comments were one dimensionally Catholic. > > Similarly, there are a lot of other things going on with Kanye and the commentators. Refusing to comment, as if it were one dimensionally about blackness is similarly flawed. You got politics, celebrity, individuality, free speech, socioeconomic status, etc etc all mixed up in the fray. > > To say this is about blackness is to be overly focused on race to the exclusion of all else. This is not quite, but suspiciously close to racism. I already said that I have no problem with the broader message, as I took it, that the commentators were trying to relate with their criticism of Kanye (the entire commentary, not just the quoted sentences). I only won’t comment on the appropriateness of the specific word usage you quoted. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/785 "2018-10-12T22:12:22Z")
But you commented on my specific word usage. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/786 "2018-10-12T22:13:53Z")
Because it was charged with sexism. There specific words were charged with racism. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/787 "2018-10-12T22:19:51Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > But you commented on my specific word usage. Yes, and it wasn’t in a context or from a place I feel unqualified to discuss, unlike the specific quotes about Kanye. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/788 "2018-10-12T22:24:32Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Yes, and it wasn’t in a context or from a place I feel unqualified to discuss, unlike the specific quotes about Kanye. Are you Catholic? ---
**Author:** ![coffeecat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coffeecat/32/3405_2.png) [@coffeecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coffeecat)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/789 "2018-10-12T23:15:01Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > I grew up much closer to my sister than “in the same tenement”. I grew up in literally the same house, with the same parents, went to the same schools… I’ve literally known her all my life. But I didn’t realize how different her experience of the world was than mine until I talked about #metoo with her. And yet, mothers raise sons, fathers raise daughters, and interracial couples raise mixed-race children, not just stating their opinions, but enforcing them on their different-from-them kids, and usually they muddle along well enough to get by. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/790 "2018-10-12T23:28:29Z")
Oh, and I just happened to see the Sam Harris thread where you said that Sam might think he is smarter than he is yadda yadda and that this is common failing of successful men, “especially white men.” As if Sam Harriss’ race has anything to do or any bearing whatsoever on a critique of his arguments. You called me out recently for a subjectively sexist comment I made six years back. As we’ve discussed things i’ve Felt that you are very much overly focused on race, and gender, and assign privileges an knowledge to people based on their identity. At the same time you seem to have no problem saying disparaging things about people (Sam Harris) based not on the content of his speech, but on the color of his skin. I don’t Know what to call this besides racism. It’s not Nazi, or white supremacist racism. I guess it is this fashionable socially acceptable racism that seems to be catching on under the guise of identity politics, intersectionalism, etc. Racism is racism. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/791 "2018-10-12T23:46:58Z")
Septimus: I think I am not going to take the quiz at this time. I hate Trump. I think his apology for white supremacidts at Charlottesville was basically the worst thing said by a President in recent history, possibly ever. It’s hard to comment on Trump’s cabinet, because it keeps changing. I Read Fear, and the most horrifying thing was that it turns out Bannon was the smartest, most conscientious and honest man in the whole group. It’s hard to figure out the Putin thing. Trump loves people that say nice things about him. Sometimes he is mean to people who are his friends and nice to his enemies. The Woodward book left me feeling that Woodward doesn’t think that Trump or anyone associated with him thinks there was collusion, but I don’t know. It’s actually hard to come up with bad things about Republicans because Trump is eclipsing everything to such a degree that the rest of the Republicans can do evil freely thanks to Trump stealth mode. The tarrifs are terrible asinine and stupid. He should not have made fun of blade. Is that enough I’m Not gonna pick on Democrat’s here. I’d rather they self-identify than have me say something bad, and have the debate me about how it’s actually not. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/792 "2018-10-12T23:53:00Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Are you Catholic? No, but you already explained in detail several pages ago (over several thoughtful posts) why you called Fluke a “brazen slut”, and it had nothing to do with Catholicism. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/793 "2018-10-12T23:56:30Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Oh, and I just happened to see the Sam Harris thread where you said that Sam might think he is smarter than he is yadda yadda and that this is common failing of successful men, “especially white men.” > > As if Sam Harriss’ race has anything to do or any bearing whatsoever on a critique of his arguments. > > You called me out recently for a subjectively sexist comment I made six years back. As we’ve discussed things i’ve Felt that you are very much overly focused on race, and gender, and assign privileges an knowledge to people based on their identity. At the same time you seem to have no problem saying disparaging things about people (Sam Harris) based not on the content of his speech, but on the color of his skin. > > I don’t Know what to call this besides racism. It’s not Nazi, or white supremacist racism. I guess it is this fashionable socially acceptable racism that seems to be catching on under the guise of identity politics, intersectionalism, etc. > > Racism is racism. Feel free to quote the post you’re talking about, and I’d be happy to explain what I meant, if you’d like to know. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/794 "2018-10-12T23:58:13Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > What kid with a blog? > > How was voting against Trump supporting him? > > What the hell are you talking about? You said, think about the worst on our side. The worst on our side has, as the pinnacle of power, a blog. The worst on your side is president. You are defending him, right now, right here in this thread. Explain how that is not support. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2018, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/795 "2018-10-13T00:09:23Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > No, but you already explained in detail several pages ago (over several thoughtful posts) why you called Fluke a “brazen slut”, and it had nothing to do with Catholicism. No. Of course not. But you did not know that 6 years ago or until you asked. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2018, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/796 "2018-10-13T00:11:10Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > No. Of course not. > > But you did not know that 6 years ago or until you asked. Right – I wanted to know why, which is why I asked. I had suspicions, but I didn’t know for sure until I asked and you explained it. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2018, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/797 "2018-10-13T00:13:26Z")
> [@](#): > > Where did I say I didn’t believe you? Is asking a question disbelief? I just wanted to know. Thanks for answering. > > I’m sure Harris would love you to believe that he’s “the most impressive polymath of the modern world”. I’m not so inclined to buy into that, especially if he says something as dumb as race is “primarily a biological concept”. Doesn’t make him stupid, but I think he’s probably not as smart as he thinks he is (a very common flaw in very successful people – especially very successful straight white males). Post #49 from that thead if you would like to find it for context. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2018, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/798 "2018-10-13T00:16:31Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Right – I wanted to know why, which is why I asked. I had suspicions, but I didn’t know for sure until I asked and you explained it. I believe you were rather critical 6 years ago, before then, and you never really asked me what I meant, irrc correctly I volunteered it, and you never determined whether I was Catholic, I volunteered that. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2018, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/799 "2018-10-13T00:16:48Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Post #49 from that thead if you would like to find it for context. I think it’s pretty straight forward – in my opinion and experience, very successful people are more likely to think that being smart in one field means they are smart in every field, and this is even more common in very successful white men, who, on average, face the fewest obstacles on the way to success. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2018, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/800 "2018-10-13T00:17:50Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > I believe you were rather critical 6 years ago, before then, and you never really asked me what I meant, irrc correctly I volunteered it, and you never determined whether I was Catholic, I volunteered that. You were asked multiple times what you meant 6 years ago, without an answer, and when I asked you in this thread what you meant, you explained it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208.md?page=39) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208.md?page=41)