# Better Conservatives? Where?! (A response to Coffeecat) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 30, 2018, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208 "2018-09-30T08:43:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 42
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2018, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/821 "2018-10-13T02:49:38Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Iandyiii; > > You brought up Harriss’ whiteness while simultaneoulsy pointing out that white people are prone to overestimating their intelligence if they are successful. Later you explained that it’s because white people have it easy. > > Harriss’ whiteness is an irrelevant factor that was not a part of the issue or discussion until you brought it up as a way of casting shade at him. Not “have it easy” - not by any means. I’m just talking in general, and relatively speaking. And this was in the context of a conversation Harris was having about the supposed inherent intellectual inferiority of black people, and he said something counteractual and incredibly stupid, specifically about race. I’m far from sure that Harris’s whiteness had nothing to do with him making such a stupid comment on that specific topic. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2018, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/822 "2018-10-13T03:29:28Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I’m far from sure that Harris’s whiteness had nothing to do with him making such a stupid comment on that specific topic. You just did it again. Why would whiteness have anything to do with it? ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2018, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/823 "2018-10-13T03:37:50Z")
It looks like the comment that you find objectionable that is attribute to Harris is that race is a biological construct. Why is this stupid? In the context of medicine there are apparently some diseases and predilections that are contingent or partially contingent upon race, and certainly the physical differences by which we identify race Tend to be real biological differences expressed to different degrees rather than imaginary constructs. I’m thinking that the epicanthic fold typical in Asians, is not a sociological construct. Why is this statement stupid? Why is it a white thing? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2018, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/824 "2018-10-13T04:58:50Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > It looks like the comment that you find objectionable that is attribute to Harris is that race is a biological construct. > > Why is this stupid? In the context of medicine there are apparently some diseases and predilections that are contingent or partially contingent upon race, and certainly the physical differences by which we identify race Tend to be real biological differences expressed to different degrees rather than imaginary constructs. I’m thinking that the epicanthic fold typical in Asians, is not a sociological construct. > Why is this statement stupid? Why is it a white thing? Well, now we see why is that many Republicans in power with the idiot ball find many targets. [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21136497&postcount=1670](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21136497&postcount=1670) > **[Speaking of Race: Podcasts](http://speakingofrace.ua.edu/podcast)** > > podcasts about race, science, and society A short podcast from the University of Alabama Anthropologists and genetics experts/professors. Where Murray, Sam Harris and even David Reich are criticized: > **[Flash! The episode about sam harris versus ezra klein versus actual science](http://speakingofrace.ua.edu/podcast/flash-the-episode-about-sam-harris-versus-ezra-klein-versus-actual-science)** > > A "seismic" op-ed in the New York Times ! Well known podcast host throwing down on another well known podcast host! A discredited race scientist from the 1980s-90s seemingly justified by a Harvard... > [@](#): > > **Erik Peterson:** Reich just talked about what he thinks is a form of Orthodoxy that he fears is causing geneticist and anthropologists, which are the two groups of Scholars most likely to be grappling with these issues, to turn a blind eye to any study that might show a genetic difference between racial groups. > > Which we would agree with but then on the other side of his mouth he says there are hard genetic differences between racial groups and he even gives a few examples the first uses is on work which report to genetically base risk factor for prostate cancer among people who self-identify as African-Americans and then the second is research conducted by other people including a team that includes Economist Daniel Benjamin on people of European ancestry against self-reported. Looking to see if genetic variation appeared between people of different education levels. > > **Jo Weaver:** Despite the fact that Reich is more measured with his arguments and has more training in genetics than most of the other thinkers we have been talking about today; he still Falls prey to the same logical error: a failure to grasp the difference between populations and races. And in fact just a few days ago on March 30th a group of 67 health scientist geneticist and Anthropologists including our friend Joseph Graves. Published an open letter in Buzzfeed that they called “how not to talk about about race and genetics” and it was responding to this debate. > > There they explain why Reich’s finding that there is a genetic risk factor for prostate cancer among African-Americans does not prove the validity of African-American as a biological race category. > > Can you read what they say there? > > **Erik Peterson:** “These people may have a higher frequency of a version of a particular gene that is linked to a higher risk of prostate cancer, but lots of people not from West Africa also have the same gene, we don’t call these other people a race. Nor do we say their race is relevant to their condition. Finding a high prevalence of a particular genetic variance in a group does not make that group a race.” > [@](#): > > **Jo Weaver:** For instance the Andaman Islander and the South Sudanese person, they have entirely different genetic structures that lead to their similarly looking dark skin. > > **Erik Peterson:** Just because the Andaman Islander and the South Sudanese person share those physical features in common doesn’t actually guarantee that there is a similar underlying genetic code beneath those shared features, and even more importantly, even if it was, it wouldn’t tell you anything at all about genes that may contribute to behavior like preference for dancing or playing chess or even taking an IQ test. > > **Jo Weaver:** (You hear that? Murray?) ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2018, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/825 "2018-10-13T05:49:04Z")
Sorry, I was skimming, did **Scylla** just seriously compare accusations of white privilege to antisemitic propaganda in the 20s and 30s? ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2018, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/826 "2018-10-13T05:59:56Z")
GIGO: Well it seems obvious that different populations with vast genetic disimilarities may evolve the same trait. Bats have wings, butterflies have wings. They are not closely related. I am an hour into the podcast right now, and the podcast is focusing on race and IQ. The claims Murray is making are; 1. iQ is valid 2. blacks score a full standard deviation below whites, and Asians 3 points higher 3. They have normed these scores against so many criteria that they really can’t be argued 4. to account for these differences in a way that is environmental rather than genetic you need to show that blacks on average suffer from a 1.5 standard deviation disadvantage versus whites on average in America in terms of environment (which includes nutrition, which is important because it is often not included in environmental criteria in similar studies) 5. Groups don’t define individuals 6. Intelligence doesn’t equal value 7. A bunch of stuff about bell curves that is true pertaining to variance within groups being greater than variance between individuals within groups 8. He has been unfairly prosecuted for presenting simple fact. My reactions: A. The math between #2and#4 do not actually add up. This is such a basic and fundamental blunder that I would guess there is a subtlety here that did not get explained in the podcast such as that it takes a 1.5x times difference in environment to equate to a 1x difference in standard deviation of intelligence, but is somewhere covered in the book. This however is a big blunder and a big explanatory gap and you just can’t throw it out there as if it isn’t, and ignore it in a discussion. A careful person making a careful argument should know to address it. B. #4 is presented as if it is a huge number that could not possibly be real, and therefore trying to explain this difference away environmentally is a similar improbably large stretchstretch. However, when I look at it and translate it, what this actually comes out to is this: to explain the measure difference in IQ between blacks and whites in America as measured by Murray (I make no warranty on the validity of his statistics) one would need to say that the environmental disadvantage suffered by blacks is 21%. Or in other words, the average black kid is raised in an environment which is 21% worse than the average white kid. Again, I make no warranty as to the quality of the statistics being put out by Murray, I am simply accepting them at face value as if they are true so that I am looking at Murray’s arguments in their own terms. My gut reaction is that I do not see 21% as being the stretch that Murray seems to think it is. In fact, if I were just to take a WAG at the systemic environmental inequality between blacks and whites in America based on socioeconomic factors I would say 20% and feel that I was being especially conservative (I, always conservative in WAGs,) I would guess the real number is higher. This seems like he is refuting his argument in his own terms. Feel free to place whatever number you want in here to decide if you think Murray is making a good argument. C. In his insistence that he was norming properly he raised several factors as evidence to suggest that he did so comprehensively. He did not norm against several issues that I mentioned in a previous post, which are quite obvious, imo, and has also failed to mention several others that I did not mention simply because they were complex and not easy to describe in a sentence or two but that any idiot who spends any time fucking around with statistics should be aware of. D. My expectation and prejudice going into this podcast was that the reaction against it was going to be a histrionic moral panic over something that is actually not controversial, and is rather mild. This expectation and prejudice appears to be incorrect. E. Sam Harriss does not appear to know enough about this subject to be aware of what is going on, and should probably stick to philosophy. This is the most charitable possible interpretation that I could extend him. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2018, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/827 "2018-10-13T06:18:15Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Sorry, I was skimming, did **Scylla** just seriously compare accusations of white privilege to antisemitic propaganda in the 20s and 30s? Seems that **Scylla** is jumping over the repeated rebuttals to that too. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2018, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/828 "2018-10-13T11:54:21Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > You just did it again. Why would whiteness have anything to do with it? Because we’re human, not robots, and our own biases, characteristics, circumstances, and experiences are likely to affect our point of view on various subjects. And it’s not “would”, but “could”. Just maybe. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2018, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/829 "2018-10-13T12:20:51Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Seems that **Scylla** is jumping over the repeated rebuttals to that too. What repeated rebuttals to my comparison were made? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2018, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/830 "2018-10-13T14:59:53Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > What repeated rebuttals to my comparison were made? Posts #626 and #810. Again, for the third time, working to make a fairer society or dealing with a racist society does not necessarily lead to the extermination of the oppressors or the people that had the advantage while the injustice prevailed. Your comparison is more like a close relative to the “[white genocide](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/8/23/17772056/south-africa-trump-tweet-afriforum-white-farmers-violence)” talking point that percolates from the extreme right to the president and then reused, sometimes ignorantly, by more regular conservatives. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2018, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/831 "2018-10-13T16:08:52Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > I will do this, but it might take me a while. Please don’t think i’ve Ignored it. > > I would be curious to see you reverse your own Quiz. I have been trying to get Dems to turn their critical eye to their own party since I came into this thread. So far no takers. [ul] [li] Some Democrat politicians are money-corrupt or engage in sexual misconduct. This won’t count against the D’s since R’s are at least as bad.[/li][li] Some complain that Hillary and other D’s are too militaristic, supporting violence against Libya or violence with drones. Again, the R’s are at least as bad _if this is bad at all_. (I’m not fully informed on on-going wars and wouldn’t feel properly informed without briefings from the NatSec Advisor. The idea that drone attacks are cowardly is silly. If we’re going to kill bad guys at all, we should kill them with minimal loss of American lives.)[/li][li] Some D politicians put more emphasis on social issues, like gay rights, than I would. But, wrong or not, this is hardly evil or despicable. Instead it is driven by popular sentiment. _ **“As of 2016, 83% of Americans aged 18–29 support same-sex marriage.”** _[/li][li] D’s support women’s right to have control over their bodies. I also support that right. I mention it here only because I have huge trouble trying to imagine what “evil” or “despicable” things the D’s do that lead you to support the R’s. Abortion is the ONLY thing I can think of that might fit the bill. _ **Is that what you’re talking about?** _ 😕[/li][li] Some D’s support gun control. I think for many Americans, denying someone a gun permit would be like kidnapping their child. _ **Is that what you’re talking about?** _[/li][li] The U.S. has, by far, the highest inequality of income and wealth distribution of any developed country. If the D’s had their way, the U.S. would _still_ have by far the highest GINI, but slightly less so. The Walton family gets about $2.5 billion annually, after taxes, in WalMart dividends. If the D’s had their way, the Waltons would be struggling to get by on just $2.3 billion annually. _ **Is that the “despicable evil” you’re talking about?** _[/li][li] The D’s want health care for all Americans. _ **Is that the “despicable evil” you’re talking about?** _[/li][/ul] I’d better stop “putting words in your mouth.” I could easily rattle off a dozen examples of despicable Republican evil, but what is the D’s despicable evil you have in mind? I’m lost. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2018, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/832 "2018-10-13T16:30:19Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Posts #626 and #810. Again, for the third time, working to make a fairer society or dealing with a racist society does not necessarily lead to the extermination of the oppressors or the people that had the advantage while the injustice prevailed. > > Your comparison is more like a close relative to the “[white genocide](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/8/23/17772056/south-africa-trump-tweet-afriforum-white-farmers-violence)” talking point that percolates from the extreme right to the president and then reused, sometimes ignorantly, by more regular conservatives. Ok. It’s good to know that this kind of thinking doesn’t always automatically lead to genocide or extermination. Did you know that shooting oneself in the head doesn’t always automatically lead to death. You should make an advertisement for your political philosophy “New improved racism! Now with 10% less genocide and virtually extermination free.” Do you want to rethink this argument, or are you going to come up with another way to justify racist attitudes towards perceived offender groups as a mechanism for social change. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2018, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/833 "2018-10-13T16:41:19Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Ok. It’s good to know that this kind of thinking doesn’t always automatically lead to genocide or extermination. > > Did you know that shooting oneself in the head doesn’t always automatically lead to death. > > You should make an advertisement for your political philosophy > > “New improved racism! Now with 10% less genocide and virtually extermination free.” > > Do you want to rethink this argument, or are you going to come up with another way to justify racist attitudes towards perceived offender groups as a mechanism for social change. As pointed, it is you and the conservatives that need to rethink yours. Yours here is another variant of the excluded middle fallacy. With strawman added. You really did ignore that I was not in favor of the CNN tweeter twits huh? ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2018, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/834 "2018-10-13T16:43:13Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > [ul] > [li] Some Democrat politicians are money-corrupt or engage in sexual misconduct. This won’t count against the D’s since R’s are at least as bad.[/li][li] Some complain that Hillary and other D’s are too militaristic, supporting violence against Libya or violence with drones. Again, the R’s are at least as bad _if this is bad at all_. (I’m not fully informed on on-going wars and wouldn’t feel properly informed without briefings from the NatSec Advisor. The idea that drone attacks are cowardly is silly. If we’re going to kill bad guys at all, we should kill them with minimal loss of American lives.)[/li][li] Some D politicians put more emphasis on social issues, like gay rights, than I would. But, wrong or not, this is hardly evil or despicable. Instead it is driven by popular sentiment. _ **“As of 2016, 83% of Americans aged 18–29 support same-sex marriage.”** _[/li][li] D’s support women’s right to have control over their bodies. I also support that right. I mention it here only because I have huge trouble trying to imagine what “evil” or “despicable” things the D’s do that lead you to support the R’s. Abortion is the ONLY thing I can think of that might fit the bill. _ **Is that what you’re talking about?** _ 😕[/li][li] Some D’s support gun control. I think for many Americans, denying someone a gun permit would be like kidnapping their child. _ **Is that what you’re talking about?** _[/li][li] The U.S. has, by far, the highest inequality of income and wealth distribution of any developed country. If the D’s had their way, the U.S. would _still_ have by far the highest GINI, but slightly less so. The Walton family gets about $2.5 billion annually, after taxes, in WalMart dividends. If the D’s had their way, the Waltons would be struggling to get by on just $2.3 billion annually. _ **Is that the “despicable evil” you’re talking about?** _[/li][li] The D’s want health care for all Americans. _ **Is that the “despicable evil” you’re talking about?** _[/li][/ul] > > I’d better stop “putting words in your mouth.” I could easily rattle off a dozen examples of despicable Republican evil, but what is the D’s despicable evil you have in mind? I’m lost. I don’t think it will have value coming from me, as I don’t think people on this board are generally willing to accept criticism of their political philosophy, particularly from someone they see as an antagonist. I will be general though, I think there are signs that the left is in the very early stages of attempting a violent revolution and the more reasonable elements are doing little to stop it. That racist violent and hateful element on the left is growing and unchecked and taking power. White supremacists on the far right are still marginalized and anemic, and really not a serious concern by comparison. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2018, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/835 "2018-10-13T16:45:34Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > As pointed, it is you and the conservatives that need to rethink yours. Yours here is another variant of the excluded middle fallacy. With strawman added. > > You really did ignore that I was not in favor of the CNN tweeter twits huh? I’m sure your right. I’m being unfairly harsh towards racism. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2018, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/836 "2018-10-13T16:52:24Z")
Indeed /s You also continue to ignore that what you point out are tempests in teapots compared to the hurricane of lies and racism from the Republican leadership. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2018, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/837 "2018-10-13T17:10:27Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > I don’t think it will have value coming from me, as I don’t think people on this board are generally willing to accept criticism of their political philosophy, particularly from someone they see as an antagonist. > > I will be general though, I think there are signs that the left is in the very early stages of attempting a violent revolution and the more reasonable elements are doing little to stop it. > > That racist violent and hateful element on the left is growing and unchecked and taking power. > > White supremacists on the far right are still marginalized and anemic, and really not a serious concern by comparison. Piffle. > **[Calling Democrats the ‘Angry Mob’ is Trump’s Biggest Lie Yet](https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2018/10/calling-democrats-the-angry-mob-is-trumps-biggest-lie-yet.html)** > > Authoritarians inspire fearful responses, and use that to justify their assault on democracy. > [@](#): > > The method on display is familiar if you study any historical episode of democratic backsliding. One party, either from the far left or the far right, sets out to attack and weaken democratic norms. The small-d democrats resist, trying to maintain democratic norms. But they’re fighting at a disadvantage against a ruthless foe that does not observe their limits, and at least some of the opposition undertakes a more drastic action. Any offense becomes a pretext for the authoritarians, who exaggerate the threat of violence and chaos by their enemies to justify the antidemocratic measures they were planning all along. > > The threat Trump poses does not excuse the left from upholding democratic standards. (I have made this case repeatedly, in fact.) That said, Trump’s illiberalism only works because respectable conservatives cooperate with his fiction that he is more victim than aggressor. French writes, “It’s time to stop excusing, rationalizing, and minimizing behavior that is dangerous, menacing, and threatening.” Indeed it is. And you seem to miss that in the thread where Sam Harris is criticized the OP also claims to be a Democrat, he is continuously criticized too by following “scientific” racism. So me and many from the left are dealing with the racist elements on our side, and the violent ones like asahi. I can still count with single digits the better conservatives that bother to tell the racists and violent fellows from the right to take a hike. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2018, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/838 "2018-10-13T17:10:45Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > I don’t think it will have value coming from me, as I don’t think people on this board are generally willing to accept criticism of their political philosophy, particularly from someone they see as an antagonist. > > I will be general though, I think there are signs that the left is in the very early stages of attempting a violent revolution and the more reasonable elements are doing little to stop it. Can you be even slightly specific about what signs you are seeing? I mean, you can look at anything, and say that it is in the “very early stages” of anything, as that is as ambiguous to define as you want it to be. Can you use your same metrics to look at your own party, and at least admit that it is in much later stages? > [@](#): > > That racist violent and hateful element on the left is growing and unchecked and taking power. The racist and hateful element on the right has already taken power. Have you seen the campaign ads that Kemp puts out? They put anything you can find of some blogger on the left to shame. And he actually has power. > [@](#): > > White supremacists on the far right are still marginalized and anemic, and really not a serious concern by comparison. You marginalize them by putting them into office? Ummm, that doesn’t work. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2018, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/839 "2018-10-13T18:02:03Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > I don’t think it will have value coming from me, as I don’t think people on this board are generally willing to accept criticism of their political philosophy, particularly from someone they see as an antagonist. > > I will be general though, I think there are signs that the left is in the very early stages of attempting a violent revolution and the more reasonable elements are doing little to stop it. > > That racist violent and hateful element on the left is growing and unchecked and taking power. > > White supremacists on the far right are still marginalized and anemic, and really not a serious concern by comparison. The leaders of the GOP are blatantly despicable and evil, but you find them morally superior to the Democratic Party because a few fringe “antifas” might advocate violence. Got it. I guess. (Timothy McVeigh, Clive Bundy — are they among the Democratic revolutionaries you’re worried about?) And who are the “reasonable elements” not doing enough to stop the “revolutionaries” you lump with “Democrats”? Beto O’Rourke? Is he a Maoist? Bernie Sanders or Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez — are they among the revolutionaries you’re concerned about? My mind boggles. If I wrote up-thread that you might be a reasonable man, let me retract that now. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2018, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/840 "2018-10-13T19:19:40Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > That racist violent and hateful element on the left is growing and unchecked and taking power. > > White supremacists on the far right are still marginalized and anemic, and really not a serious concern by comparison. This strikes me as totally insane alternative-universe stuff. The chief spreader of a racist conspiracy theory (birtherism) for many years, who praised white supremacists, said a judge couldn’t do his job because he was Mexican, and much, much more, is now President, from the right. There are no prominent Democrats who spread any racist bullshit that comes close at all to any of this. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208.md?page=41) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208.md?page=43)