# Better Conservatives? Where?! (A response to Coffeecat) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 30, 2018, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208 "2018-09-30T08:43:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2018, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/161 "2018-10-02T17:54:05Z")
Somewhere between 40 and 50% of Americans don’t even participate in the civic and political activities of life. And about only 1% are very active in civic and political activities. And a majority of Democrats and Republicans view the majority of the people in the other party as ideologues (believing that their counterparts are widely conservative or liberal) when in reality a much less percentage of each party self identifies as very liberal or very conservative. The great divide that is perceived to exist only exist within a much smaller percentage of Americans than is believed. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2018, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/162 "2018-10-02T17:56:16Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Everyone rock and roll all nite and party every day? _I like beer._ ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2018, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/163 "2018-10-02T18:00:55Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > And being a different question, it has a different answer. _Do you know the answer?_ No. That aspect doesn’t concern me. > [@](#): > > I’d like to hear from all the Kavanaugh sympathizers. I’m not - politically - a sympathiser either; I do, however, object to him being deemed guilty without evidence or a trial. Mob rule is no rule. I would have thought Americans had learned that from the Salem Witch Trials. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2018, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/164 "2018-10-02T18:08:27Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > I’m not - politically - a sympathiser either; I do, however, object to him being deemed guilty without evidence or a trial. Mob rule is no rule. > > I would have thought Americans had learned that from the Salem Witch Trials. Once again, he is not on trial. His liberty is not in jeopardy. He is in a job interview. The standards are not the same. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2018, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/165 "2018-10-02T18:10:48Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > I’m not - politically - a sympathiser either; I do, however, object to him being deemed guilty without evidence or a trial. Mob rule is no rule. > [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > More detailed legal reasoning at Volokh’s blog: > [Why Supreme Court Confirmation Hearings Should be Treated as Job Interviews, not Criminal Trials](http://reason.com/volokh/2018/09/30/why-supreme-court-confirmation-hearings?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter) > > eg [INDENT]When it comes to more ordinary jobs, we readily recognize that applicants may be disqualifed for a variety of possible shortcomings, even if the evidence of their existence falls far short of proof beyond a reasonable doubt. Imagine that you are hiring a babysitter for your children. A candidate applies who has excellent relevant skills, and good recommendations from recent previous employers. But evidence suggests that there is a 20% chance she may have been guilty of child abuse years ago. Few would blame you for rejecting her application on that basis, especially if there were other available applicants with comparable skills, but no such potential taint. Whether evidence of past criminal or unethical activity is disqualifying may vary greatly, depending on the nature of the job, and the nature of the moral lapse. A moral taint that is disqualifying for a childcare worker may not be disqualifying for an accountant, and vice versa. But, at least in a great many situations, a substantial likelihood that the applicant has a history of wrongdoing can be considered disqualifying.[/INDENT] Also: _ **He is not on trial, you fucking moron-He is applying for a job.** _ ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2018, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/166 "2018-10-02T18:13:27Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Also: _ **He is not on trial, you fucking moron-He is applying for a job.** _ He is not on criminal trial. But he is on trial in the court of public opinion and in the social media age that is non trivial. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2018, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/167 "2018-10-02T18:13:48Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > I would have thought Americans had learned that from the Salem Witch Trials. I missed the part where he was going to be hanged. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2018, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/168 "2018-10-02T18:15:39Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > He is not on criminal trial. But he is on trial in the court of public opinion and in the social media age that is non trivial. He decided to apply for one of the most important jobs in the entire country. He CHOSE that. Was he in a fucking cave the last 40 years? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2018, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/169 "2018-10-02T18:15:47Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > I missed the part where he was going to be hanged. I’ll get the scales, you get the duck. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2018, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/170 "2018-10-02T18:15:50Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > I’m not - politically - a sympathiser either; I do, however, object to him being deemed guilty without evidence or a trial. Mob rule is no rule. > > I would have thought Americans had learned that from the Salem Witch Trials. Let’s say humanity suffered a blow and you become responsible for the upbringing of a child. Your neighbor tells you: “Hey, I’m available for babysitting anytime. I’ll even do it for free. And all those people who say I’m a molester? Well, they’ve never proven it!” You stick to your principles and hire this guy, right? Of course you do. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2018, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/171 "2018-10-02T18:22:26Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Once again, he is not on trial. But many have deemed him guilty, and I object to that. Again, his political selection is another matter, on which I have no opinion. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2018, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/172 "2018-10-02T18:23:12Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I don’t know why I bother, but there is NOT “zero,” evidence. > > You may find the existing evidence unpersuasive, but that’s not “zero.” > > Unless you think that a reader should understand that when you say, “Zero evidence,” you really mean “zero persuasive evidence as far as my own personal opinion goes?” So Quartz: you’re dealing with a former defense lawyer who is saying this. Don’t you think they understand the presumption of innocence better than you? The presumption of innocence doesn’t mean you ignore evidence. It doesn’t mean you don’t investigate. It just means you don’t deprive people of life or liberty without due process, where you err on the side of innocence. I also personally note that there is no life or liberty at stake here. This is a question of whether a man gets a promotion or not. The presumption when giving out promotions is that you don’t give them. You need to prove you are worthy of the promotion. And that there aren’t others more qualified. There definitely are a lot of qualified judges–even if you take “qualified” to mean “conservative” or “textualist.” Any would be better than the guy who freaks out about the Clintons attacking him, crying and upset not that a woman was harmed, but that he might not get what he wants. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2018, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/173 "2018-10-02T18:26:39Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > I’m not - politically - a sympathiser either; I do, however, object to him being deemed guilty without evidence or a trial. Mob rule is no rule. > > I would have thought Americans had learned that from the Salem Witch Trials. So the best defense the Big Responsible Adult Republicans can muster is to whine about how the world is being unfair? Well, you can take that, shove it right next to the opposition to Medicaid expansion, the refusal to fund the VA, the blatant disrespect for voting rights, and your anti-choice screechings and shove it right into your mouth so you might learn to stop making noise while the _real_ humans are discussing things. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2018, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/174 "2018-10-02T18:26:51Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Your neighbor tells you: “Hey, I’m available for babysitting anytime. I’ll even do it for free. And all those people who say I’m a molester? Well, they’ve never proven it!” In 2013 [Bijan Ebrahimi was murdered](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-25139185) in the UK for being suspected of being a paedophile. He was entirely innocent. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2018, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/175 "2018-10-02T18:27:37Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > But many have deemed him guilty, and I object to that. Try telling them _ **He is not on trial, you fucking moron-He is applying for a job** _, instead of mindlessly yammering on and on about there not being enough evidence to convict him. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2018, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/176 "2018-10-02T18:28:20Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > But many have deemed him guilty, and I object to that. Again, his political selection is another matter, on which I have no opinion. You realize these are the turds you’re dropping in a thread that’s complaining about the low quality of Conservative discourse on the site. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2018, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/177 "2018-10-02T18:28:37Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > In 2013 [Bijan Ebrahimi was murdered](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-25139185) in the UK for being suspected of being a paedophile. He was entirely innocent. So fucking what. Answer the question. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2018, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/178 "2018-10-02T18:28:41Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > He decided to apply for one of the most important jobs in the entire country. He CHOSE that. Was he in a fucking cave the last 40 years? Hey, I’m not saying he doesn’t deserve scrutiny. It’s just that there is a trial and people will make up their minds based on all sorts of things. Debating what they should make up their minds on is part of the process as well. ---
**Author:** ![MindsEye\_Watering](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mindseye_watering/32/3619_2.png) [@MindsEye\_Watering](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MindsEye_Watering)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2018, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/179 "2018-10-02T18:47:55Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > In 2013 [Bijan Ebrahimi was murdered](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-25139185) in the UK for being suspected of being a paedophile. He was entirely innocent. Is Kavanaugh a pedophile now? Are we threatening to murder him? Did I miss a memo? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2018, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/180 "2018-10-02T19:02:56Z")
> [@MindsEye\_Watering](#): > > Is Kavanaugh a pedophile now? Are we threatening to murder him? > > Did I miss a memo? Where have you been? A couple of crazies murdering a guy in the UK is the exact same as Americans wanting an investigation before a guy gets appointed for life to the Supreme Court. How can you not see the glaring similarities? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208.md?page=10)