# Better school systems, mandatory mil. service...? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 10, 2001, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-school-systems-mandatory-mil-service/71933 "2001-07-10T07:13:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![zen101](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c68b51/32.png) [@zen101](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zen101)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2002, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-school-systems-mandatory-mil-service/71933/101 "2002-06-04T22:39:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Squish \* > \*\* I do help myself: by taking my medication, by keeping my doctors’ appointments, and by managing the money I get from disability–money that I get _because_ I contributed to society before I was a “diseased caribou”. (Ironically, when I was working I never complained about the amount of taxes deducted from my paycheck.) I don’t find the supplemental charity I occasionally need demeaning; I find it an example of the goodness of the human spirit. \*\* Godd for you on all points, and I see nothing here which I have argued against. You contributed before becoming ill, you are reaping now the benefits of a society which you have assisted. So where is the conflict? As for charity, perhaps my wording was inapproppriate. I don’t consider much of what our government spends as charity (any of it in fact) because our donations to other countries or indigent persons are taken from us upon threat of prison should we attempt to avoid paying these fines. Charity is freely given, and not the same as welfare at gunpoint. I do feel that the mentality of a government hiving out billions of dollars to feed persons in other nations which it could be spending to improve itse’d from within comes from a mentality that “our problems don’t exist but you little Blankovania are truly pathetic.”. \*\* > [@](#): > > And your education should tell you that it wasn’t the efforts of a “bunch of militia men” that made this country possible; it was an army trained by military experts from Europe and by colonial military veterans, aided by the money and other assistance from France and Spain and by the fact that Britain had a few other things on its plate to deal with at the time. \*\* I’m aware of the foreign assistance the colonial militias recieved, both in the form of training (From a Pole and a Belgian and another whose names I cannot remember, and to be honest I don’t recall ever being able to spell the Pole’s name but there is a statue of him in DC and I think he assisted in designing West Point’s defences) and in manpower (or more importantly Naval power) from the French, the militias were what it all hinged upon and who would have paid the ultimate price for failure (and many did pay in loss of property even if they survived after victory). The French and the Snapiards may well have gone to war against’ England on their own, but even if they had won it would have not helped the colonials, it may have even hurt them as later on neither Napoleon or the Spanish crown were big fans of America. Recall that the Spanish had a treaty with France forbidding the Louisana purchase and that even after the Monroe Doctrine they were keen on getting that land back as they figured Napoleon double did them in that sale to us. Not that i really know what any of this has to do with my point other than an excercise in conversations in historical observation, whichs is fun but distracting. > [@](#): > > \*\* > Also you seem to be equating formal education with intelligence, and intelligence with wisdom and beneficial political decisions. Good gods, we all know that Henry Ford, for one example, was intelligence, but that his politics were morally bankrupt! > \*\* I believe in standards and measurable increments. As you are no doubt aware you can take the bar and practice law without ever having attended law school. Law school is the common method of preparing for the bar as it is common knowledge that a formal education helps with decision making later on. But I don’t recall insisting on a formal education or degree to practice franchise. You may recall that I have repeated that some contribution, any contribution really, is all equal in this matter. I said something like a “physicist contribuets as much as a road worker as both are needed”. Same goes for the fellow making your McLean Deluxe, but I doubt he has a degree or requires much of an education to do that particular job. But he is certainly contributing to society, in his service to the patrons on their way to do other contributions tasks and in taxes as well. By working a job, no matter how small it may seem, rather than working the system you are helping the big picture move along. As for education = intelligence = wisdom. I may seem to be saying this, but I haven’t. Intelligence is self evident moreso in the uneducated. It’s fairly elementary for an educated person to get on reasonably well in our society, but look at Dave Thomas, a completely uneducated person who did very well. Much easier to measure his obvious intelligence than someone like Jeb Bush who may be govenor of Florida, but he was pretty much groomed for the (or a similar) job. Wisdom is mas nix for me. Can’t measure it, otherwise it becomes something else. It seems to mean the ability to make the right decisions based on too little evidence, but I’m not sure. Can you explain it to me? \*\* > [@](#): > > As for the enforced military or civil service: yup, people sure do their best at a task they’re forced into. :rolleyes: My sister volunteered for military service during the Vietnam War and even so she described the commonly-held attitude of the military as “if it moves, salute it; if it doesn’t move, paint it green.” I’m all for a volunteer military because for the most part the people enlisted are there because they want to be there; they’re eager to learn and have a strong desire to succeed. > \*\* I agree. Good thing I have not once ever said people should be FORCED into doing anything. I don’t even believe in forcing people to get jobs or eat or breathe, but I do believe in giving advantages to people who earn them. So I dunno why this paragraph exists unless its in reference to something someone else said or just stating your own opinion, which is fine by me. > [@](#): > > \*\* > I began to read this thread because I thought it dealt with improving American public education, so I’ll chuck in my thoughts on that. I consider myself intelligent but poorly educated, particularly in maths (in fifth and sixth grade, the method of teaching mathematics was ‘self-teaching’: you graded yourself, and if you couldn’t grasp the concepts in your workbook, there were no resources to help you). I am embarrassed by the fact that there are many people on mailing lists I belong to for whom English is not there first or primary language, but they can communicate in English not only formally but idiomatically, whereas few of the native English-speakers can reciprocate. > \*\* I have the same math problems for different reasons. When I was in grade school our homeroom teacher was molesting girls and flunking the boys. All the boys were held back and it took parental intervention to figure out what was going on, so we all got skipped past third grade to catch up and I never gor basic multiplication or division. I had to take some pretty remedial math courses when I got to college in order to pass my basic prerequisites. Funny how there were nine years after this failure abd before college where I was just passed along in math witout being able to do long division (I’m pretty good with simple multiplication just because I memorized the 1-100 table). \*\* > [@](#): > > So then: > -I propose that children be taught one classical language and one modern language other than English beginning at least in first grade. > -I propose that primary education (first through eighth grades) consist of two cores: the first core would be Logic/Critical Thinking, Grammar, Rhetoric and Reading. This, so that they would learn to think, learn to formulate their thoughts, and learn to express their thoughts both verbally and non-verbally. The second core would consist of Natural Science, Physical Science, Applied Science, and Applied/Practical Mathematics. This, so that they will learn how the world they live in works and how they can work within it. > -Secondary (high-school) education would consist of a core of more complex applications of the primary-school education, and electives that would allow students to explore their future career path. \*\* -I agree. I’m in favor of Latin as it it the foundation of so many other useful languages. -I like the idea, but do you think elementary school kids can grasp logic or critical thought? It seems that I would not have been able to deal with either concept as I now know them at a young age. Maybe by 6th grade, but not in 1st grade unless they had some remarkable teaching techniques. -To a certain extent this is what was done in my high school, but we abused it due to a lack of supervision. We had a “modular” schedule (patterned after technical school schedule) which resulted in the caffeteria being occupied virtually all day by students who did not happen to have a class during that period. Many students (myself included) skipped so much class we were amazed to know where we were even supposed to be at any given time. Amazing I still passed everything, but then I wrestled. \*\* > [@](#): > > Finally, two observations: 1) I do see many of the opinions expressed here as fascistic, and 2) (referring back to the OP) marijuana apparently does not always lead to carpentry; sometimes it leads to toe-jam philosophy. 😉 \*\* 1. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I have yet to see a concrete facist manifesto in here. Certainly there are elements that facists use discussed here, but more or less what you are probably referring to as “facist” more or less meets the technical definition of Martial or Appolonian, but in most cases not even that as I have yet to see anyone suggest dictatorship as a viable idea. It comes off just as ripe and obvious when someone on the left cries “facist” and points to the middle as it does when some right winger living in a shack in Montana claims that the Liberal Jew Media Conspiracy has sent the Illuminatus after him and again points to the moderate middle. The funny thing is, that while people on the left and people on the right can be very boisterous and obvious they are also only taking about half the heat and negative attention as someone firmly in the middle and who tries to state an opinion because both sides hate the middle. ---
**Author:** ![nicky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f0a364/32.png) [@nicky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nicky)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2002, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-school-systems-mandatory-mil-service/71933/102 "2002-06-05T23:22:25Z")
Dont muck about with the inalienable right to vote - its the thin end of a very nasty wedge. ---
**Author:** ![Squish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@Squish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squish)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2002, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-school-systems-mandatory-mil-service/71933/103 "2002-06-06T02:09:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by zen101 \* > **Godd for you on all points, and I see nothing here which I have argued against. You contributed before becoming ill, you are reaping now the benefits of a society which you have assisted. So where is the conflict?** Upon rereading your posts, I’m sure I misunderstood you. However, what about those with a psychiatric disorder which keeps them from ever holding a job–but who still have sufficient intelligence to fill out a ballot? (Offhand, the only example that comes to mind is paranoid-schizophrenia.) > [@](#): > > **I do feel that the mentality of a government hiving out billions of dollars to feed persons in other nations which it could be spending to improve itse’d from within comes from a mentality that “our problems don’t exist but you little Blankovania are truly pathetic.”.** I agree thoroughly with that point of view! I think foreign aid–except in extreme humanitarian situations–is our government’s biggest waste of money. > [@](#): > > **I’m aware of the foreign assistance the colonial militias recieved, \ Not that i really know what any of this has to do with my point other than an excercise in conversations in historical observation, whichs is fun but distracting.** A lot of people are of the belief that the militia won the Revolutionary war singlehandedly. Obviously, they did not. > [@](#): > > \*\*I believe in standards and measurable increments. As you are no doubt aware you can take the bar and practice law without ever having attended law school. \*\* Actually, I wasn’t aware of that. Tres cool… > [@](#): > > **Wisdom is mas nix for me. Can’t measure it, otherwise it becomes something else. It seems to mean the ability to make the right decisions based on too little evidence, but I’m not sure. Can you explain it to me?** IMO, wisdom is common-sense knowledge accrued through living. Knowing that running into the street before an oncoming car is dangerous doesn’t require intelligence or education. So is knowing that it’s the living who suffer grief at the loss of a loved one; the dead don’t care. These may not be the best examples for this thread, but you get my drift. [QUOTE] **So I dunno why this paragraph exists unless its in reference to something someone else said or just stating your own opinion, which is fine by me.** /QUOTE] It’s my opinion, and was not in reference to anyone’s post in particular, but to several posts. On to improving education: > [@](#): > > \*\* > -I agree. I’m in favor of Latin as it it the foundation of so many > other useful languages. > -I like the idea, but do you think elementary school kids can grasp logic or critical thought? It seems that I would not have been able to deal with either concept as I now know them at a young age. Maybe by 6th grade, but not in 1st grade unless they had some remarkable teaching techniques. > -To a certain extent this is what was done in my high school, but we abused it due to a lack of supervision. We had a “modular” schedule (patterned after technical school schedule) which resulted in the caffeteria being occupied virtually all day by students who did not happen to have a class during that period. Many students (myself included) skipped so much class we were amazed to know where we were even supposed to be at any given time. Amazing I still passed everything, but then I wrestled.\*\* I prefer Latin myself, but I knew if I specified Latin, _someone_ would probably argue for Greek instead. 🙂 I do think that, presented simply and in a way relevant to their experience, that at least the beginnings of logic and critical thought could be taught to elementary school children. For example, if Teacher comes in and says, “Look at my pretty blue shirt! Isn’t a nice shade of blue?” at least one of the children is going to pipe up that it’s not a blue shirt, it’s a yellow one. Then Teacher can lead a discussion of ‘evidence.’ Then onto fact-checking, primary sources, etc. As far as your high school experience–well, by that age, kids should be able to realize (or should have it brought to their attention) that if they skip class and fail their tests, they’re going to suffer for it in their chosen field. > [@](#): > > **1) Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I have yet to see a concrete facist manifesto in here. Certainly there are elements that facists use discussed here, but more or less what you are probably referring to as “facist” more or less meets the technical definition of Martial or Appolonian, but in most cases not even that as I have yet to see anyone suggest dictatorship as a viable idea.** A concrete manifesto, no. I do think that the very idea of ‘earning’ a vote and ‘earning’ citizenship is a fascistic-leaning idea. Besides, that’s been covered in other posts by people more well-versed than I. As far as coming up with philosophies when you’re high, I regard it in the same light as those ‘great ideas’ people have when they’re drunk: “Great. Go sleep it off and think about it some more when you’re sober (or straight).” ---
**Author:** ![zen101](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c68b51/32.png) [@zen101](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zen101)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2002, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-school-systems-mandatory-mil-service/71933/104 "2002-06-06T06:44:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Squish \* > \*\* > Upon rereading your posts, I’m sure I misunderstood you. However, what about those with a psychiatric disorder which keeps them from ever holding a job–but who still have sufficient intelligence to fill out a ballot? (Offhand, the only example that comes to mind is paranoid-schizophrenia.) > \*\* I’m open to the possibility that someone who is capable of voting well will be excluded from doing so under this system, but I believe that errors or flaws exist in ANY system. As a cautious person I prefer to err on the side of prevention and I do feel that it is nessisary to use what you can measure easily. I am sure that you could formulate some method of determining intelligence apart from societal contribution that was both accurate and fair, but I’m also sure that unless it was somehow automated (highly unlikely that a machine could be built to detect our own reasoning abilities if we are so debilitated that we cannot perform simple tasks which would allow us to keep a basic job) it would require countless interviews and be subject to corruption and cots too much either way. And again I have a problem with someone not contribution to society also directing it. You don’t ask a stowaway’s opinion on the meals that he is stealing. \*\* > [@](#): > > I prefer Latin myself, but I knew if I specified Latin, _someone_ would probably argue for Greek instead. 🙂 > \*\* The problem with Greek is that as I understand it, it is officially a dead language and that it is not taught much at all in spoken form whereas Latin is. (classical Greek that is) \*\* > [@](#): > > As far as your high school experience–well, by that age, kids should be able to realize (or should have it brought to their attention) that if they skip class and fail their tests, they’re going to suffer for it in their chosen field. > \*\* Maybe I was a victim of what Hughes refers to as “White Privilige”, but I do feel that I should not have been passed. I was taking up space and diverting resources that could have been spend to greater result at that time on other students. \*\* > [@](#): > > A concrete manifesto, no. I do think that the very idea of ‘earning’ a vote and ‘earning’ citizenship is a fascistic-leaning idea. Besides, that’s been covered in other posts by people more well-versed than I. > \*\* I just don’t agree at all. Some of the most liberal countries in the world not only require some form of civil service for all those able, they actually require military service, and it seems to work. At least that does not appear to be a source of any problems they mugh have. ---
**Author:** ![nicky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f0a364/32.png) [@nicky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nicky)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2002, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-school-systems-mandatory-mil-service/71933/105 "2002-06-07T09:58:13Z")
“I’m thinking of an analogy that I really like. Voting is like surgery on a much larger scale. Neither require training or aptitude to attempt, but in both cases I would prefer a surgeon I go to to have both training AND aptitude, same goes for the voter” No, voting is like choosing which surgeon should operate on you. ---
**Author:** ![Squish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@Squish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squish)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2002, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-school-systems-mandatory-mil-service/71933/106 "2002-06-07T23:35:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by zen101 \* > **(highly unlikely that a machine could be built to detect our own reasoning abilities if we are so debilitated that we cannot perform simple tasks which would allow us to keep a basic job)** A friend of mine is paranoid-schizophrenic. He is brilliant with mechanical stuff, and he can manage his own bank account and credit cards well. He can’t hold a job, though, because of the near-constant babble of voices in his head. I can’t hold a job because of deep depression and panic attacks–but I’m still intelligent and capable. > [@](#): > > \*\*I just don’t agree at all. Some of the most liberal countries in the world not only require some form of civil service for all those able, they actually require military service, and it seems to work. At least that does not appear to be a source of any problems they mugh have. \*\* Is service in those countries actually required to earn citizenship and enfranchisement, though? ---
**Author:** ![zen101](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c68b51/32.png) [@zen101](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zen101)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2002, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-school-systems-mandatory-mil-service/71933/107 "2002-06-08T00:09:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Squish \* > \*\* > A friend of mine is paranoid-schizophrenic. He is brilliant with mechanical stuff, and he can manage his own bank account and credit cards well. He can’t hold a job, though, because of the near-constant babble of voices in his head. I can’t hold a job because of deep depression and panic attacks–but I’m still intelligent and capable. > \*\* Sorry, but two counterpoints. 1) I think I’m intelligent as well as good looking and I often tell jokes which I think are funny, but to which most people respons with puzzled looks. My point? Most your opinion of yourself is subject to interpretation. You just can’t run a society of duplicitious our possibly demented people by taking folks word for it. 1. It’s incumbet upon you to find some way to use what you have to take care of yourself as best able if you want to participate in the world. I’m an asshole with severe depression and a violent temper, so I do well to secure employment outside of dealing with the public or in areas that my “flaws” might be usefull. I suggest you do the same. After all, you have the energy to post here in an articulate manner, so it is beyond a doubt that you could do some sort of work. It may not be your dream-job, but no one promised you could be a rock star. If you can’t manage to find some way to apply yourself in a beneficial way with your obvious abilities then I doubt your ability to vote using good sense. Same for your friend, and hearing “voices” qualifies you as a nutter. Anything you can be found not guilty by reason of, should automatically disqualify you from voting. \*\* > [@](#): > > Is service in those countries actually required to earn citizenship and enfranchisement, though? \*\* I believe that those who are prevented by health or age (Immigrants who have to obviously prove to be an asses of some sort in most cases anyhow) are excluded from this, but otherwise yes. Required means required. Maybe not all types of service are directly military, but there are public works projects in Holland for example that participation in can land you citizenship if they need your skills. I remember when I was getting ready for college the first time in 90 Holland was paying students to go to engineering school in exchange for so many years working on the dikes projects and that you could secure citizenship there by this route as well (Holland is pretty immigration limited, or at least it was.). At one time I was considering migrating to Israel and even though I am an Army veteran I would have had to enlist there ot gain citizenship (some deference would have been granted to my existing rank and training, however). Basically as I understand it if you are able to serve then you must do so and most people just go ahead and don’t bother to complain about it as the benefits to the nation are ingrained in the social concience. ---
**Author:** ![Squish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@Squish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squish)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2002, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-school-systems-mandatory-mil-service/71933/108 "2002-06-08T01:08:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by zen101 \* > \*\*Sorry, but two counterpoints. 1) I think I’m intelligent as well as good looking and I often tell jokes which I think are funny, but to which most people respons with puzzled looks. My point? Most your opinion of yourself is subject to interpretation. You just can’t run a society of duplicitious our possibly demented people by taking folks word for it. \*\* My point? That you can judge ability to vote upon other decision-making abilities, like managing a credit card, bank account, etc. > [@](#): > > \*\* After all, you have the energy to post here in an articulate manner, so it is beyond a doubt that you could do some sort of work. It may not be your dream-job, but no one promised you could be a rock star. If you can’t manage to find some way to apply yourself in a beneficial way with your obvious abilities then I doubt your ability to vote using good sense.\*\* I did work, for 20 years, until my fifth suicide attempt. This past year I tried to go back to school in an attempt to learn another way to support myself; I lasted just one semester before the stress, panic attacks, anger attacks and depression got too much. > [@](#): > > **Same for your friend, and hearing “voices” qualifies you as a nutter.** To me, the very fact that you can call someone with a legitimate, inherited disease a “nutter” disqualifies you from having enough common sense to vote. ---
**Author:** ![zen101](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c68b51/32.png) [@zen101](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zen101)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2002, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-school-systems-mandatory-mil-service/71933/109 "2002-06-08T01:32:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Squish \* > \*\*I did work, for 20 years, until my fifth suicide attempt. > \*\* This kinda flies in the face of your example of good descision making, don’t you think? I mean either the choice to kill yourself is a bad idea or your failure to do so successfully on five occasions are examples of poor descision making. It depends on your point of view, I’m an ASHer from way back and a right to die advocate so I don’t think suicide is automatically a bad choice for some people, but failing in the effort shows a lack of preparedness and research in something that could be the last important thing you ever do. You have demonstrated your inability to choose wisely by either choosing to pretentd to try suicide or being bad at trying it for real. Harsh, sorry, bygones. \*\* > [@](#): > > This past year I tried to go back to school in an attempt to learn another way to support myself; I lasted just one semester before the stress, panic attacks, anger attacks and depression got too much. > \*\* Well You did try, and thats good for you but you keep talking about your own inability to cope with life and yet you insist you are a good prospect for deciding the fate of billions? Either you didn’t think this through or you are a **nutter**. Yep I said it again. It may be offensive as a term to you, but it serves as an adequate descriptive for certain persons. \*\* > [@](#): > > To me, the very fact that you can call someone with a legitimate, inherited disease a “nutter” disqualifies you from having enough common sense to vote. \*\* a)On the one hand I might be a nutter too. That would not automatically prevent me from spotting another nutter, in fact it maq eminently qualify me. b) on the other hand, you did take the quote out of context and failed to respond to the gist which was if someone suffers from a condition which may render them immune from prosecution they should not be able to vote along the same priciple. You descibe this person as a paranoid schitzophrenic which is damned sure a nutter in people’s minds (ie: not someone you hire to watch the kids). I just say what I think rather than pretend I don’t think mean thoughts. c) on the gripping hand you describe both your friend and yourself as persons who cannot cope for various psychological reasons. Either you are pretending to engage in some fun arguing or you are someone who has a flawed perspective on his own life and so why should I concern myself over what you think about MY perspective? ---
**Author:** ![Squish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@Squish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squish)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2002, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-school-systems-mandatory-mil-service/71933/110 "2002-06-08T03:45:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by zen101 \* > **This kinda flies in the face of your example of good descision making, don’t you think? I mean either the choice to kill yourself is a bad idea or your failure to do so successfully on five occasions are examples of poor descision making.** I needed treatment and counseling. My last suicide attempt was two years ago; and I’m getting better, but it takes time. > [@](#): > > **You have demonstrated your inability to choose wisely by either choosing to pretentd to try suicide or being bad at trying it for real.** Fortunately or unfortunately, I have nosy friends. I kept getting caught. 🙂 > [@](#): > > **Well You did try, and thats good for you but you keep talking about your own inability to cope with life and yet you insist you are a good prospect for deciding the fate of billions?** How would military or civil service make me a better prospect? I am not inable to cope with life; I am able to cope, but with limitations, just as a blind person or a quadriplegic is able to cope, but with limitations. > [@](#): > > **You descibe this person as a paranoid schitzophrenic which is damned sure a nutter in people’s minds (ie: not someone you hire to watch the kids).** Well, for one thing, he’s very good with kids and does babysit when asked to. He’s also pet-sat for me. His paranoia is stuff like, “I can’t take a shower at night because I might wake up my next-door neighbor,” or “I can’t go to the grocery store right now because there are two many people there and because I’m slow I might annoy them.” > [@](#): > > \*\*Either you are pretending to engage in some fun arguing or you are someone who has a flawed perspective on his own life and so why should I concern myself over what you think about MY perspective? \*\* Similarly, why should I concern myself with what you think about MY perspective? I have no proof that your perspective on your own life is not flawed (good gods, is anyone’s?). Perhaps you can, in your own mind, come up with an unbiased means test for enfranchisement, but frankly, I doubt such a thing exists. If it did, would we not also have to be wary of the possibility of corruption in those administering the test and interpreting the results? The comparison to a driver’s test that has been made in this thread is an example: I know personally of at least one man who, despite being blind in one eye and having no peripheral vision in the other, is still regularly issued a driver’s license. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-school-systems-mandatory-mil-service/71933.md?page=5)