# Betty, Joan, or Peggy? (a special superficial poll for MAD MEN fans) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 9, 2009, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/betty-joan-or-peggy-a-special-superficial-poll-for-mad-men-fans/513230 "2009-10-09T19:46:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/betty-joan-or-peggy-a-special-superficial-poll-for-mad-men-fans/513230/61 "2010-02-18T23:10:57Z")
voted ‘other’ - there’s just something about the Jewish chick ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/betty-joan-or-peggy-a-special-superficial-poll-for-mad-men-fans/513230/62 "2010-02-18T23:16:23Z")
> [@Cat\_Fight](#): > > What **F. U. Shakespeare** said. I don’t think it necessarily means she was horribly racist, for the time, just that she has a petty side. She was right about Kinsey’s phoniness and probably still had some romantic feelings for him, but it was a nasty little swipe. It’s pretty minor compared to the blatant prejudice otherwise exhibited by many of the characters toward both blacks and Jews. (Roger: “Have we ever hired any Jews?” Don: “Not on my watch.”) Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/betty-joan-or-peggy-a-special-superficial-poll-for-mad-men-fans/513230/63 "2010-02-18T23:24:05Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > Skald: New York Magazine just [voted](http://nymag.com/fashion/10/spring/63808/). > > (_Maybe_ not safe for work.) New York magazine is still wrong. Freaking straphangers can’t appreciate the wonderfulness that is Elizabeth Moss. When the revolution comes, they will be put against the wall immediately after Seth McFarlane. ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/betty-joan-or-peggy-a-special-superficial-poll-for-mad-men-fans/513230/64 "2010-02-19T03:47:49Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > It’s pretty minor compared to the blatant prejudice otherwise exhibited by many of the characters toward both blacks and Jews. (Roger: “Have we ever hired any Jews?” Don: “Not on my watch.”) > > Stranger Don would today be fired and sued into the ground for his decisions/utterings on race and gender. But he shows more sensitivity than 90+% of people of that time, with a guarded eye towards hiding this egalitiarian, sensitive side from his entreched-prejudiced bosses: - The first episode’s opening, where he engages a black man who cleans tables in conversation about cigarette brands (waving off a racist bartender who asks Don if he’s being bothered by asking, “No, we’re having a conversation, if that’s all right”). - A few years (and promotions later), Roger and Don take Freddie Rumson out for a last hurrah, and Roger asks Don what he thinks about some firm hiring a “colored guy”. Don replies, “I’m glad I’m not that guy”. - In an episode I can’t identify off the top of my head, Don needs intel on (IIRC) Pete Campbell, and goes to the black man who operates the elevator for said info. He could have easily barked alpha-honky threats, but he instead proffered the guy cash. Message: The SOB Don Draper is complicated. ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/betty-joan-or-peggy-a-special-superficial-poll-for-mad-men-fans/513230/65 "2010-02-19T03:52:29Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I don’t remember that one (or, for that matter, who Sheila is), but I’ll take your word for it. Sheila is Kinsey’s black girlfriend. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/betty-joan-or-peggy-a-special-superficial-poll-for-mad-men-fans/513230/66 "2010-02-19T15:45:21Z")
> [@F.U.Shakespeare](#): > > - In an episode I can’t identify off the top of my head, Don needs intel on (IIRC) Pete Campbell, and goes to the black man who operates the elevator for said info. He could have easily barked alpha-honky threats, but he instead proffered the guy cash. Actually, he paid the operator to fake a lift breakdown in order to force Roger Sterling to walk up 23 flights of stairs after a three martini oyster lunch (“Red in the Face”). But yes, Don’s bigotry seems to be a calculated part of his facade rather than an inculcated facet of his personality, as evidenced by his actions, and he dispenses with it when it suits him (witness his affair with Rachel Menken, chatting up the black waiter, encouraging and promoting Peggy as a copywriter). And in comparison to other characters, Joan’s comments to Shelia come off as merely condescending and slightly catty (no doubt intentionally so, as a means of getting back at Kinsey for his “big mouth”). Stranger [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/betty-joan-or-peggy-a-special-superficial-poll-for-mad-men-fans/513230.md?page=3)