# Beverly Crusher and her sanctimony are single-handedly ruining TNG for me **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 30, 2014, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beverly-crusher-and-her-sanctimony-are-single-handedly-ruining-tng-for-me/694439 "2014-07-30T19:38:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beverly-crusher-and-her-sanctimony-are-single-handedly-ruining-tng-for-me/694439/81 "2014-08-05T18:26:03Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > No therapists or psychologists assigned to duty on missile subs, from what I’ve read, but probably on aircraft carriers, which (and I know the Navy will neither confirm or deny) very likely carry nuclear weapons. > > You’ll find General Order 24 (and others) here, **Skald** : [General Orders and Regulations | Memory Alpha | Fandom](http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Starfleet_General_Orders_and_Regulations) I knew you’d be along to outgeek me, but I figured you’d also comment on Barbara Babcock’s costume. [Instead you’ve forced me to do so myself.](http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj316/epaddon/BarbaraBabcock2.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beverly-crusher-and-her-sanctimony-are-single-handedly-ruining-tng-for-me/694439/82 "2014-08-05T19:11:17Z")
That Ware and his titillating costumes! ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beverly-crusher-and-her-sanctimony-are-single-handedly-ruining-tng-for-me/694439/83 "2014-08-05T19:16:21Z")
> [@AncientHumanoid](#): > > That Ware and his titillating costumes! > **[William Ware Theiss](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Ware_Theiss)** > > William Ware Theiss (/θaɪs/; November 20, 1931 – December 15, 1992) was an American costume designer for television and film. > His film credits as costume designer include Spartacus, Harold and Maude, Bound for Glory, Pete's Dragon (uncredited), Who'll Stop the Rain, Butch and Sundance: The Early Days, The Man with One Red Shoe, and Heart Like a Wheel. His television credits include Star Trek and Star Trek: The Next Generation, for which he won an Emmy Award for Best Costume Design. > In the cours... [http://www.dame-mehri.com/theiss/btheiss.html](http://www.dame-mehri.com/theiss/btheiss.html) > **[William Ware Theiss](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/William_Ware_Theiss)** > > William Ware Theiss (20 November 1931 – 15 December 1992; age 61), also credited as William Theiss, worked as the costume designer for the entire run of Star Trek: The Original Series, the abandoned Star Trek: Phase II television project, and for the... ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2014, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beverly-crusher-and-her-sanctimony-are-single-handedly-ruining-tng-for-me/694439/84 "2014-08-06T02:58:13Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I knew you’d be along to outgeek me, but I figured you’d also comment on Barbara Babcock’s costume. [Instead you’ve forced me to do so myself.](http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj316/epaddon/BarbaraBabcock2.jpg) How can I force you to do what you’re so very happy to do on your own? ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2014, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beverly-crusher-and-her-sanctimony-are-single-handedly-ruining-tng-for-me/694439/85 "2014-08-06T03:41:39Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > I just think it’s weird that in the future, ships are equipped with both a therapist and enough photon torpedoes to level a planet. Well, it’s _only_ about 16 Gigatons worth of antimatter weapons on a _Galaxy_-class…hardly enough to make a fuss about, really. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2014, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beverly-crusher-and-her-sanctimony-are-single-handedly-ruining-tng-for-me/694439/86 "2014-08-06T13:23:55Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > I just think it’s weird that in the future, ships are equipped with both a therapist and enough photon torpedoes to level a planet. You get a lot further with a therapist and a photon torpedo than just a therapist. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2014, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beverly-crusher-and-her-sanctimony-are-single-handedly-ruining-tng-for-me/694439/87 "2014-08-06T13:45:22Z")
> [@Hypno-Toad](#): > > You get a lot further with a therapist and a photon torpedo than just a therapist. I’m putting that on my coat of arms. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2014, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beverly-crusher-and-her-sanctimony-are-single-handedly-ruining-tng-for-me/694439/88 "2014-08-06T13:53:41Z")
> [@Ranchoth](#): > > Well, it’s _only_ about 16 Gigatons worth of antimatter weapons on a _Galaxy_-class…hardly enough to make a fuss about, really. Isotons. You need a computer with a lot of kiloquads to add up all those isotons. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2014, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beverly-crusher-and-her-sanctimony-are-single-handedly-ruining-tng-for-me/694439/89 "2014-08-06T17:20:52Z")
1000 kellicams, … closing ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2014, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beverly-crusher-and-her-sanctimony-are-single-handedly-ruining-tng-for-me/694439/90 "2014-08-06T17:39:03Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I will defend Pulaski. It seemed to me quite reasonable that somebody would meet Data and think “it” rather than “he.” Y’know, it might have worked, if she’d joined the cast in Season 1, Episode 1… ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2014, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beverly-crusher-and-her-sanctimony-are-single-handedly-ruining-tng-for-me/694439/91 "2014-08-06T18:04:20Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Y’know, it might have worked, if she’d joined the cast in Season 1, Episode 1… I don’t understand this. How are the experiences of persons other than herself relevant to her own reactions? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2014, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beverly-crusher-and-her-sanctimony-are-single-handedly-ruining-tng-for-me/694439/92 "2014-08-06T18:20:53Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I don’t understand this. How are the experiences of persons other than herself relevant to her own reactions? Because if she meets the guy when We The Viewers do, maybe we’d see her as making humorous and interesting points while she and we eventually come to accept him as “Him” instead of “It”. But for her to try it after Brent Spiner’s been quirkily charming us for a year? Don’t make me quote Spock re: _it may not be logical, but it is often true._ ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2014, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beverly-crusher-and-her-sanctimony-are-single-handedly-ruining-tng-for-me/694439/93 "2014-08-06T19:14:46Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > I just think it’s weird that in the future, ships are equipped with both a therapist and enough photon torpedoes to level a planet. What always got me was the inclusion of families–including children–on the ship. You’d think after the eighth or tenth time that the Enterprise is nearly destroyed in some interspecies conflict or by the latest space “phenomenon” that the parents might think “hmm, maybe we should just drop the kids off at summer camp…”. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2014, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beverly-crusher-and-her-sanctimony-are-single-handedly-ruining-tng-for-me/694439/94 "2014-08-06T19:28:22Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Because if she meets the guy when We The Viewers do, maybe we’d see her as making humorous and interesting points while she and we eventually come to accept him as “Him” instead of “It”. But for her to try it after Brent Spiner’s been quirkily charming us for a year? Don’t make me quote Spock re: _it may not be logical, but it is often true._ The thing is, while I don’t expect Trek to be the height of realism, it wouldn’t be believable to every major character to buy into Data’s personhood. It was refreshing for somebody to have to be convinced of it. And, as I wrote upthread, she was convinced he was a person by the end of her time on the show. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2014, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beverly-crusher-and-her-sanctimony-are-single-handedly-ruining-tng-for-me/694439/95 "2014-08-06T19:30:59Z")
> [@fachverwirrt](#): > > What always got me was the inclusion of families–including children–on the ship. You’d think after the eighth or tenth time that the Enterprise is nearly destroyed in some interspecies conflict or by the latest space “phenomenon” that the parents might think “hmm, maybe we should just drop the kids off at summer camp…”. That bugged me too. Especially after that other Galaxy class ship got destroyed while they watched. You’d think that every parent with a kid on board would have said, “Captain, either I transfer off this ship or I resign my commission. You decide.” ---
**Author:** ![a35362](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@a35362](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/a35362)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2014, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beverly-crusher-and-her-sanctimony-are-single-handedly-ruining-tng-for-me/694439/96 "2014-08-06T19:32:23Z")
Why would that be the captain’s decision? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2014, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beverly-crusher-and-her-sanctimony-are-single-handedly-ruining-tng-for-me/694439/97 "2014-08-06T19:38:06Z")
> [@a35362](#): > > Why would that be the captain’s decision? 😕 Of course the captain would have to approve a transfer request. That’s made obvious by the series in several episodes. If Picard refused to allow a transfer, the officer would have to resign to get off ship–which Picard could probably delay only temporarily, at best. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2014, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beverly-crusher-and-her-sanctimony-are-single-handedly-ruining-tng-for-me/694439/98 "2014-08-06T19:43:41Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > The thing is, while I don’t expect Trek to be the height of realism, it wouldn’t be believable to every major character to buy into Data’s personhood. It was refreshing for somebody to have to be convinced of it. And, as I wrote upthread, she was convinced he was a person by the end of her time on the show. Like I said earlier, character growth! It is a useful tool and maybe since I’m grown up now I just like more flawed characters. I hate the idea that TNG had, that they were so enlightened. I can’t watch DS9 for a while. I need to watch something else. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2014, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beverly-crusher-and-her-sanctimony-are-single-handedly-ruining-tng-for-me/694439/99 "2014-08-06T20:04:45Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > That bugged me too. Especially after that other Galaxy class ship got destroyed while they watched. You’d think that every parent with a kid on board would have said, “Captain, either I transfer off this ship or I resign my commission. You decide.” I’ve complained about this many times. Laying aside the “felony endangerment” issue, children on a starship would be the ultimate in nonessential personnel. “Oh,” someone always says, “you can’t keep people separated from their families for such long periods of time.” Bullshit! People who serve in the military can be and are separated from their families all the time. If you don’t want to be separated from your family, don’t sign up! There are probably thousands of suitable personnel across the Federation already waiting in line for the post you just turned down. I can see having husband and wife teams serving on board Starfleet vessels, but if a woman was found to be pregnant, she should be given the choice of early retirement or rotation to a shore base. Birth control on board ship would be voluntary for married females, mandatory for unmarried ones. That was how it was done on _ **TOS** _, though it was never discussed on screen. Makes you wonder what Roddenberry et al. were smoking the day they finalized that bit of the _ **TNG** _ format. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2014, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beverly-crusher-and-her-sanctimony-are-single-handedly-ruining-tng-for-me/694439/100 "2014-08-06T20:09:47Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > “Oh,” someone always says, “you can’t keep people separated from their families for such long periods of time.” Bullshit! People who serve in the military can be and are separated from their families all the time. If you don’t want to be separated from your family, don’t sign up! There are probably thousands of suitable personnel across the Federation already waiting in line for the post you just turned down. But according to Picard Starfleet is _not_ a military organization! He said it so it must be true. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beverly-crusher-and-her-sanctimony-are-single-handedly-ruining-tng-for-me/694439.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/beverly-crusher-and-her-sanctimony-are-single-handedly-ruining-tng-for-me/694439.md?page=6)