# Bg hands in online poker **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 11, 2005, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bg-hands-in-online-poker/298800 "2005-04-11T16:07:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BarnOwl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e95f7d/32.png) [@BarnOwl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BarnOwl)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2005, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bg-hands-in-online-poker/298800/1 "2005-04-11T16:07:02Z")
I play only Play Money poker (almost exclusively $10-$20 Texas Hold 'em) and it seems to me that I see an inordinate number of big hands. E.g., in the past couple weeks, I’ve had two straight flushes, 3 4’s of a kind. And I’ve seen what would seem to be altogether too many flushes and straights - my own and other players, as well. This is not sour grapes because I’m well ahead of the game. Agreed, it’s fantasy poker and oftentimes, people stay in when they should fold. And yes, there are usually 7-9 people playing the hands. I just wonder how random the deals are. I’ve read that one must shuffle 7 times to get a random deal. Anyone have any idea of how many “shuffles” a Play Money deck gets per hand? Might the site(s) load the decks to heat up the action and draw players - first to the free games, and then to the real ones? Is there really such a thing as random deals? ---
**Author:** ![nesta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a4c791/32.png) [@nesta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nesta)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2005, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bg-hands-in-online-poker/298800/2 "2005-04-11T21:22:35Z")
I doubt the major sites (party, stars, etc) are rigged. They have too much to lose if it gets leaked or figured out, and they make plenty of money with an honest game. Some disagree, but those being vocal about it are usually fanatic and have little more than anecdotal evidence to back it up. They focus on things like “action flops” to get more money in the pot and therefore generate more rake, and predictive dealing to equalize the playing field a little so that bad players can stay around longer. I have yet to see anyone with real evidence of this. On the other hand, there has been analysis showing random shuffles, though with a small sample size in this case: [http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.gambling.poker/browse\_thread/thread/caa79fd079bee55d/3c3f29d3340e65d7#3c3f29d3340e65d7](http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.gambling.poker/browse_thread/thread/caa79fd079bee55d/3c3f29d3340e65d7#3c3f29d3340e65d7) Paradise poker has this to say about their shuffling algorithm: [http://www.paradisepoker.com/shuffling.html](http://www.paradisepoker.com/shuffling.html) And pokerstars mentions theirs here: [http://www.pokerstars.com/security.html](http://www.pokerstars.com/security.html) I suppose it’s possible that some of the smaller sites might resort to a rigged game, or the major sites might do it at the play money tables to get people to take the real money plunge, but it would take a lot of work to both rig the game profitably and make it hard to detect. Beating the play money tables is easy enough without rigging it, so I don’t see it being worth the time and risk. > [@](#): > > Agreed, it’s fantasy poker and oftentimes, people stay in when they should fold. I think you nailed it. Over the weekend I can think of at least one straight flush I would have made if I hadn’t folded my 45s preflop, and probably others I didn’t notice. Same with quads. Playing online I get a chance to see a lot more hands than I would at any live game, so only the huge or unexpected hands get remembered. People are very good at recognizing patterns, and it’s natural to attribute a rush due to randomness as one due to design. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2005, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bg-hands-in-online-poker/298800/3 "2005-04-11T22:13:13Z")
If the site I play, PokerRoom, is rigged then with the amount of money I’m ahead over the last year I’ve been playing let’s hear it for rigging. FTR, [here](https://www.pokerroom.com/support/faq/questions.php?id=63) is what PR says about its randomness. I think you and **nesta** have it right when you assign the “blame” to play money players. They either don’t have the experience to know when they should fold or because there’s nothing at risk they just don’t care. Every player has the hands they correctly mucked pre-flop only to see they’d have flopped a monster. I was kicking myself earlier today for folding a couple of real money hands I could’ve played cheap that would have flopped two pair, only to have it turn out that someone else would have made in one case a straight and in another case trips. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2005, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bg-hands-in-online-poker/298800/4 "2005-04-11T22:18:07Z")
Tell me about it, Otto. I was playing real money last night and got a couple where I would’ve flopped two pair (which would’ve lost), one where I would’ve gotten a full house to win had I stayed in, and one where I got in cheap with 6s, flopped trip 6, then picked up the quad on either the turn or the river. It’s gonna be a long time before I see another set of quads. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2005, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bg-hands-in-online-poker/298800/5 "2005-04-12T00:25:35Z")
Heh, I’ll pass on quads. I never get paid with them. I think the last time I netted about a buck and a half. In fact I almost never get paid with a big hand. If it’s a straight or better I either get no action or someone outdraws me. ---
**Author:** ![BarnOwl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e95f7d/32.png) [@BarnOwl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BarnOwl)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2005, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bg-hands-in-online-poker/298800/6 "2005-04-12T00:52:16Z")
Just started playing no limit this afternoon — still play money — and that seems to be the place to clean up. From around 8K I’m up to close to $30K. What’s surprising is the dead seriousness of it all. You get locked into a god game and you can almost see the players frothing at the mouth. 😃😃😃