# Bias against ghetto dwellers **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 25, 2003, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bias-against-ghetto-dwellers/150857 "2003-01-25T14:40:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2003, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bias-against-ghetto-dwellers/150857/101 "2003-01-25T23:26:53Z")
> [@](#): > > I’ve re-written at least twice that it was only with all things being equal and not having time to interview everyone. Pure idiocy. You just said that you believe blacks to be lazier than everyone else. In order for them to be just as worthy as a white applicant, the white applicant would have to be considerably less qualified. There is no “everything being equal” in your scheme. Your post shows you have no knowledge about hiring practices. If all of your applicants are equal, you interview them. You call up references. You do eeny-meeny-miny-moe. You have much better alternatives than discriminating based on the perceived ethnicity of names. Doing this is not only irrational, it is unethical. ---
**Author:** ![light\_strand](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a6a055/32.png) [@light\_strand](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/light_strand)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2003, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bias-against-ghetto-dwellers/150857/102 "2003-01-25T23:37:02Z")
monstro it’s not just “irrational, it is unethical” it’s also illegal. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2003, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bias-against-ghetto-dwellers/150857/103 "2003-01-25T23:39:41Z")
> [@](#): > > You just said that you believe blacks to be lazier than everyone else. I said in my experiences the are (as a group) lazier than whites (as a group). > [@](#): > > In order for them to be just as worthy as a white applicant, the white applicant would have to be considerably less qualified. > [@](#): > > Your post shows you have no knowledge about hiring practices. If all of your applicants are equal, you interview them. Why? Where did I write anything that gave you this idea? > [@](#): > > There is no “everything being equal” in your scheme. Again, why? There resumes can’t be equal? > [@](#): > > Your post shows you have no knowledge about hiring practices. If all of your applicants are equal, you interview them. Sorry, that’s a rosy view, but it doesn’t work that way. Alot of it is done on stereotypes and hunches. In a big corporation you sometimes get thousands of resumes with only two or three positions open. Thier just isn’t enough time (or money) to do the thorough search that would make things nice and fair for everyone. Welcome to the real world. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2003, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bias-against-ghetto-dwellers/150857/104 "2003-01-25T23:42:27Z")
My second response was to **monstos’** second quote. They got mixed up somehow. ---
**Author:** ![Texican](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ebca7d/32.png) [@Texican](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Texican)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2003, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bias-against-ghetto-dwellers/150857/105 "2003-01-25T23:57:21Z")
Why do you find that amusing? I think my postings are logical and consistent. What I said was that in the real world, when you get way more applications than you can interview, you have to make choices. The U of M case is about discriminating against applicants BASED ON their response that they are not minorities. Nowhere do I state that minorities should be either given preferential treatment or discriminated against. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2003, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bias-against-ghetto-dwellers/150857/106 "2003-01-25T23:59:06Z")
> [@](#): > > Again, why? There resumes can’t be equal? The only time when a black person might have a shot in your world is if all the other applicants are black and/or if all the other applicants have fewer credentials. Do you not see the unfairness in this scenario? To say it another way: you allow white applicants to be judged based on their credentials. You judge black applicants on their credentials and a bunch of ASSumptions that may or may not apply. This is not fair and all the justifications in the world don’t make it so. > [@](#): > > I said in my experiences the are (as a group) lazier than whites (as a group). Why do you think qualifying with “as a group” makes your vitriol more reasonable? > [@](#): > > Alot of it is done on stereotypes and hunches. So if you come across two resumes with identical qualifications, one from Robert Smith and the other from John Smith, what do you do? Discriminate against Robert because a high school bully had that name? Discriminate against John because it’s a boring name? What does a bigot do in a situation like this? ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2003, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bias-against-ghetto-dwellers/150857/107 "2003-01-26T00:09:49Z")
> [@](#): > > The only time when a black person might have a shot in your world is if all the other applicants are black and/or if all the other applicants have fewer credentials. One more time, WHERE ARE YOU GETTING THIS FROM? > [@](#): > > Why do you think qualifying with “as a group” makes your vitriol more reasonable? Did I say it made anything more reasonable? I didn’t even allude to it. I used it to show my stereotypes are based on my personal experiences with many groups over many years. > [@](#): > > Discriminate against John because it’s a boring name? What does a bigot do in a situation like this? Is this rhetorical? I hope so. ---
**Author:** ![light\_strand](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a6a055/32.png) [@light\_strand](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/light_strand)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2003, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bias-against-ghetto-dwellers/150857/108 "2003-01-26T00:10:00Z")
But Texican you have said that you discriminate against applicants based upon their name > [@](#): > > I can figure that I don’t want my customers having to call up “Peerless” or something like that. Same goes for Toshiba, Poison Hell you even rationalized it: > [@](#): > > One reason that companies may avoid minorities is that due to discrimination lawsuits if they hire someone that is a minority, and they turn out to be a bad employee, they have a hard time letting them go without being sued. I noticed that you made no comment on how doing this is just plain illegal. Moreover how is discriminating an application based upon their name (Poison or Peerless) any different then discrimination based upon their color? ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2003, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bias-against-ghetto-dwellers/150857/109 "2003-01-26T00:15:24Z")
To the mods: I was warned once in this thread and told name calling and personal insults aren’t allowed in this forum. Well I’ve been told I talk out of my asshole and that I’m a bigot; I don’t see any more warnings for being posted. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2003, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bias-against-ghetto-dwellers/150857/110 "2003-01-26T00:27:59Z")
I don’t know about talking out of your ass, but calling you a bigot is just the plain truth. You do know what the definition of bigot is, don’t you **x-ray**? > [@](#): > > Main Entry: big·ot > Pronunciation: 'bi-g&t > Function: noun > Etymology: Middle French, hypocrite, bigot > Date: 1661 > : a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices I’d also say something about the slang term “talking out of your ass” and how even though it is derogatory it could be applied to your posts in this thread, but instead I’ll just say that you don’t know what your talking about. That’s my take on it, IANAM, ect, ect. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2003, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bias-against-ghetto-dwellers/150857/111 "2003-01-26T00:29:29Z")
> [@](#): > > One more time, WHERE ARE YOU GETTING THIS FROM? I’m not an idiot, see. I got your insanity in writing: > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > _originally posted by monstro:_ > > > > You justify discriminating against “Tyrones” because you believe blacks to be lazy and incompetent speakers of the English language. > > > > Is this correct? > > _originally posted by x-ray vision:_ > > Yup. Who said “yup”, **x-ray**? You don’t have to say, “I’M A RACIST BIGOT” in order for you to be perceived as such. Your words speak for themselves. > [@](#): > > Did I say it made anything more reasonable? I didn’t even allude to it. I used it to show my stereotypes are based on my personal experiences with many groups over many years. And yet your personal experiences “with many groups” cloud your judgement of INDIVIDUALS. That’s what we are talking about here. Don’t you like being treated as an individual? Don’t you think black people deserve the same basic right? > [@](#): > > Is this rhetorical? I hope so. No, the question was geniune. You’re so quick with the answers when it comes to scenarios involving Tyrone and Darnell. Why can’t we get your infinite wisdom in this scenario? ---
**Author:** ![InLikeFlynn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f19dbf/32.png) [@InLikeFlynn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InLikeFlynn)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2003, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bias-against-ghetto-dwellers/150857/112 "2003-01-26T00:31:05Z")
What are you surprised at a racial divide right here in the good ole USA? What do you live under a rock? Let me ask you something, If you were a White man who has just put up his lifetime savings to open your dream business and you receive two resumes with matching credentials from a Black guy and a white guy, You would chance taking the black guy? What are you living under a rock? Blacks are 12% of the population and make up about 50% of the prison population. With as tough as it is to get a business off the ground, one dishonest employee can send your dreams down the drain! ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2003, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bias-against-ghetto-dwellers/150857/113 "2003-01-26T00:37:02Z")
Lordamercy, we got a pipline that leads straight to that Stormfucks site now, don’t we? ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2003, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bias-against-ghetto-dwellers/150857/114 "2003-01-26T00:38:47Z")
It’s more like a sewer pipe coming from the other direction, **Biggirl**. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2003, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bias-against-ghetto-dwellers/150857/115 "2003-01-26T00:39:49Z")
> [@](#): > > I’m not an idiot, see. I got your insanity in writing: This means in my world blacks don’t have a shot? ## You don’t have to say, “I’M A RACIST BIGOT” in order for you to be perceived as such. Your words speak for themselves. quote: ## Did I say it made anything more reasonable? I didn’t even allude to it. I used it to show my stereotypes are based on my personal experiences with many groups over many years. I don’t believe this makes me a racist bigot. > [@](#): > > And yet your personal experiences “with many groups” cloud your judgement of INDIVIDUALS. That’s what we are talking about here. Don’t you like being treated as an individual? Don’t you think black people deserve the same basic right? Again, I didn’t write that I let anything “cloud” my judgement. Only that judgements must be made before even meeting individuals. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2003, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bias-against-ghetto-dwellers/150857/116 "2003-01-26T00:42:30Z")
Why is that **Biggirl**? What did **Inlikeflynn** say that isn’t true? ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2003, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bias-against-ghetto-dwellers/150857/117 "2003-01-26T00:46:10Z")
**x-ray** , constantly saying “I didn’t write that” does not make for a good defense. You said you believe blacks are lazy, inarticulate, and inferior workers. Why WOULDN’T a person with good sense conclude that this goes not only for blacks as a whole but also individual blacks? If you select a “white” resume over a “black” one, you’re discriminating on an INDIVIDUAL level. You are prejudging an individual based on generalizations attributed to a group. This makes you a racist bigot. Unless you retract everything you’ve said on this thread, you will not convince me otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2003, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bias-against-ghetto-dwellers/150857/118 "2003-01-26T00:48:37Z")
> [@](#): > > And yet your personal experiences “with many groups” cloud your judgement of INDIVIDUALS. That’s what we are talking about here. Don’t you like being treated as an individual? Don’t you think black people deserve the same basic right? When I was a young man I had long hair. If I walked into a store I know I was being watched because I might steal something. The store owner couldn’t possibly treat me as an individual. He didn’t know me. Why was he suspicious? Because a disproportionate amount of young men with long hair were trouble makers at the time. Was he wrong about me? Yes. Do I blame him? No. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2003, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bias-against-ghetto-dwellers/150857/119 "2003-01-26T00:54:49Z")
> [@](#): > > You said you believe blacks are lazy, inarticulate, and inferior workers. Why WOULDN’T a person with good sense conclude that this goes not only for blacks as a whole but also individual blacks? Because I specifically stated that I don’t believe all blacks are lazy, only the majority. How many more times can I convey this message to you? > [@](#): > > You are prejudging an individual based on generalizations attributed to a group. Yes, I am; and I think we all do whether we admit it or not. > [@](#): > > This makes you a racist bigot. Unless you retract everything you’ve said on this thread, you will not convince me otherwise. I don’t care about convincing you. I already know I couldn’t ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2003, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bias-against-ghetto-dwellers/150857/120 "2003-01-26T01:13:36Z")
Please provide us with scientifically valid evidence that more than 50% of blacks are “lazy.” Thank you for your attention to this matter. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bias-against-ghetto-dwellers/150857.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bias-against-ghetto-dwellers/150857.md?page=7)