# Bible prophecy **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 9, 2016, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-prophecy/748460 "2016-03-09T19:30:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Lionheartlamb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Lionheartlamb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lionheartlamb)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-prophecy/748460/141 "2016-03-09T23:34:42Z")
> [@Melaradark](#): > > 1- The Dead Sea Scrolls don’t contain the Gospels. > > 3- Saying it again because it’s so important- the Dead Sea Scrolls have nothing to do with the Gospels. No one said they did. Slow down and READ. Let me help you save some time here. You are trying to argue about the Nicaen council who put the OT and NT together in one book about 325 AD. You are using the tired old atheist ploy of using this to suggest we don’t have a CLUE what was changed. Does that bout cover it? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-prophecy/748460/142 "2016-03-09T23:35:33Z")
> [@Lionheartlamb](#): > > uhhh, NO > > The gospels were NOT changed. > > That is just a lie you have heard repeated. > > We can PROVE THIS through secular archeology just like the Dead seas scroll and other finds. Your continued refusal to accept the obvious truth that Pallas Athena overthrew and castrated her hated father, the great rapist Zeus, and is now Queen of Heavne and sovereign of Earth, is blasphemous. This truth was revealed to me years ago, and were the choice mine alone you would be strapped to a chair, have your eyelids propped open by toothpicks, and be forced to watch the entirety of _Star Trek: Voyager_ until you repented or perished. Fortunately for you, the Goddess is more merciful than I and doesn’t care about being worshipped anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Melaradark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@Melaradark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melaradark)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-prophecy/748460/143 "2016-03-09T23:38:05Z")
Ok, on that first link, none of those scriptures has Jesus flat out saying “I am the Son of God’. Second link is broken. Matthew 16:15-17 which you quoted also does not have Jesus flat out saying “I am the Son of God.” Nowhere in that scripture nor in your actual quote do those words appear. Thirdly, all of those were fifth party accounts written decades after the fact by people who were not there to hear the exchanges in the first place. So…is it safe to say that your claim that Jesus FLAT OUT SAYS ‘I am the Son of God’ is incorrect? ---
**Author:** ![Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maggie_the_Ocelot)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-prophecy/748460/144 "2016-03-09T23:39:21Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Your continued refusal to accept the obvious truth that Pallas Athena overthrew and castrated her hated father, the great rapist Zeus, and is now Queen of Heavne and sovereign of Earth, is blasphemous. This truth was revealed to me years ago, and were the choice mine alone you would be strapped to a chair, have your eyelids propped open by toothpicks, and be forced to watch the entirety of _Star Trek: Voyager_ until you repented or perished. Fortunately for you, the Goddess is more merciful than I and doesn’t care about being worshipped anyway. Are you casting shade on Our Blessed Lady Janeway? :eek::eek::mad::mad: ---
**Author:** ![Lionheartlamb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Lionheartlamb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lionheartlamb)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-prophecy/748460/145 "2016-03-09T23:40:59Z")
> [@Melaradark](#): > > Ok, on that first link, none of those scriptures has Jesus flat out saying “I am the Son of God’. > > Second link is broken. > > Matthew 16:15-17 which you quoted also does not have Jesus flat out saying “I am the Son of God.” Nowhere in that scripture nor in your actual quote do those words appear. > > Thirdly, all of those were fifth party accounts written decades after the fact by people who were not there to hear the exchanges in the first place. > > So…is it safe to say that your claim that Jesus FLAT OUT SAYS ‘I am the Son of God’ is incorrect? Its safe to say you are bing obtuse and trolling now. Jesus CLEARLY tells Peter He is the Son of God here. **Matt 16:15-17** 15 He said to them, “And who do you say that I am?” 16 Simon Peter answered, **“You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.** ” 17 \*\*And Jesus answered him, “You are blessed, Simon son of Jonah, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but my Father in heaven!” \*\* [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Melaradark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@Melaradark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melaradark)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-prophecy/748460/146 "2016-03-09T23:41:18Z")
> [@](#): > > “No one said they did.” I said the gospels have been changed. You said ‘no they haven’t’ and cited the Dead Sea scrolls as a source of proof that they hadn’t. > [@](#): > > “You are trying to argue about the Nicean Council-“ No. I am trying to argue that the gospels have been extensively changed. The Nicean Council was one situation in which that happened, yes, but hardly the only. > [@](#): > > “You are using the tired old atheist ploy-“ And you are assuming. I never said I was an atheist. I believe in God. > [@](#): > > “…using this to suggest we don’t have a CLUE what was changed.” So you know what was changed then? > [@](#): > > “Does that about cover it?” Not really, no. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-prophecy/748460/147 "2016-03-09T23:41:30Z")
> [@Lionheartlamb](#): > > The problem is the bible says Jesus was born in BETHLEHEM, not Nazareth. (Micah 5:2) > > And those prophesies were written before Jesus was born and secular science has PROVEN this. > > The OT was translated into Greek 200 years before the birth of Christ. > > So you can’t argue its made up after the fact. You don’t seem to be processing the point. Of course the Messiah was supposed to be born in Bethlehem - which was where David was born. The writers of the Gospel were well aware of this. Now, the person they thought was the Messiah was not born in the right place, so they made up a story saying where he was born. Like they made of the story that he had to flee to Egypt to make him sound like the second coming of Moses. Or do you believe that Wahington threw a dollar across the Potomac because Parson Weems said so? When you are writing fiction it is easy to make prophecies come true. See the Scottish play. ---
**Author:** ![Melaradark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@Melaradark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melaradark)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-prophecy/748460/148 "2016-03-09T23:44:06Z")
You just repeated the quote. A quote in which Jesus again does not flat out say He is the Son of God. Highlighting it in red doesn’t change those words to ‘And Jesus answered him, “I am the Son of God.” Nor does highlighting it change the fact that those words were written by someone who was not there, decades after they were supposed to be said, who never heard said conversation actually take place. That quote does show where Jesus supposedly inferred it strongly in the bible, however, ‘infer strongly’ is not the same as ‘flat out saying’, which was your claim. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-prophecy/748460/149 "2016-03-09T23:46:37Z")
> [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](#): > > Are you casting shade on Our Blessed Lady Janeway? :eek::eek::mad::mad: Are you high?. Voyager sucked because of NEELIX. Janeway was erratic but also v. pretty and kinda badass. ---
**Author:** ![Melaradark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@Melaradark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melaradark)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-prophecy/748460/150 "2016-03-09T23:46:38Z")
> [@](#): > > “It is safe to say you are being obtuse and trolling now.” I am doing neither. You are making a claim of something that is inferred, and saying it is stated clearly and matter-of-factly, when it is in fact NOT. That you chose your words poorly when you said he ‘flat out’ said something when really, it was only inferred, is not my fault. ---
**Author:** ![Lionheartlamb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Lionheartlamb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lionheartlamb)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-prophecy/748460/151 "2016-03-09T23:48:02Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > You don’t seem to be processing the point. Of course the Messiah was supposed to be born in Bethlehem - which was where David was born. The writers of the Gospel were well aware of this. Now, the person they thought was the Messiah was not born in the right place, so they made up a story saying where he was born. Like they made of the story that he had to flee to Egypt to make him sound like the second coming of Moses. > Or do you believe that Wahington threw a dollar across the Potomac because Parson Weems said so? > When you are writing fiction it is easy to make prophecies come true. See the Scottish play. Indeed. These same poor fishermen from a tiny nothing province even convinced the mighty Roman Empire to get involved personally with a local preacher and do the deed for them to fulfill the prophecies. And they convinced The Roman Empire to destroy Jerusalem afterwards to fulfill the rest of the prophecies. And about a million other details that were totally out of their control. ---
**Author:** ![Melaradark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@Melaradark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melaradark)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-prophecy/748460/152 "2016-03-09T23:54:30Z")
You mean, because it was a huge stretch for the writers of the gospels to imagine that the Roman Empire, which had taken over most of the known world and destroyed many cities, would eventually turn on Jerusalem…which has always been hotly contested as it is a very fertile area surrounded by a very inhospitable landscape? ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-prophecy/748460/153 "2016-03-10T00:04:11Z")
> [@Lionheartlamb](#): > > Its safe to say you are bing obtuse and trolling now. Jesus CLEARLY tells Peter He is the Son of God here. > > **Matt 16:15-17** > 15 He said to them, “And who do you say that I am?” 16 Simon Peter answered, **“You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.** ” 17 \*\*And Jesus answered him, “You are blessed, Simon son of Jonah, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but my Father in heaven!” \*\* [/QUOTE] All the bolding and color won’t make that verse say waht you thnk it does. Peter says he is - Chris ‘accepts’ it - and then uses the psalmist response that we are all ‘children of god’. Jesus never says "I AM THE SON OF GOD’ - In fact, the closest he really comes to any claim of divinity is when he says [“I AM”](http://www.gotquestions.org/I-AM.html) - which is not to be the SON, but to be GOD himself. So - you need to do a bit more work here. (and all of this is of course a 3rd (or more) account of a conversation that was handed down verbally and not written down for a LONG time after the fact). ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-prophecy/748460/154 "2016-03-10T00:12:56Z")
> [@Lionheartlamb](#): > > Its safe to say you are bing obtuse and trolling now. Jesus CLEARLY tells Peter He is the Son of God here. > > **Matt 16:15-17** > 15 He said to them, “And who do you say that I am?” 16 Simon Peter answered, **“You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.** ” 17 \*\*And Jesus answered him, “You are blessed, Simon son of Jonah, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but my Father in heaven!” \*\* [/QUOTE] Lionheartlamb, it is against the rules to accuse another poster of trolling. We’ve swapped PM’s about the culture here. I suggest you think on it more before you start another thread. Warning issued, thread closed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-prophecy/748460.md?page=7)