# Bible Question: What's the deal with all the idol worshiping? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 6, 2005, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-question-whats-the-deal-with-all-the-idol-worshiping/293206 "2005-03-06T14:01:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![El\_Zagna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d2c977/32.png) [@El\_Zagna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Zagna)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2005, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-question-whats-the-deal-with-all-the-idol-worshiping/293206/1 "2005-03-06T14:01:16Z")
Throughout the Old Testament God makes a really big deal about worshiping idols. The rule against it even made it into the Ten Commandments bumping, I suppose, other things like remember to brush after meals, don’t smoke pot, and never kiss a cow on the lips. Now I’ve been tempted to do a lot of bad things in my life, but I’ve never been inclined to worship idols. (Whether or not I’ve been tempted to kiss a cow on the lips I’ll leave to your imagination.) This got me to thinking just what they really meant when they talked about worshiping idols. Was it the “bowing down before the golden calf” thing that was so bad or was it more loosely defined to mean something like skewed priorities? ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2005, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-question-whats-the-deal-with-all-the-idol-worshiping/293206/2 "2005-03-06T14:10:53Z")
There’s a human tendency to take some physical object and make it the most important thing in our lives: the new car, the perfect sexual fantasy, etc. Even in matters religious, to have a physical representation of something holy to focus on is important. It’s easy to point out statues of the Virgin Mary or Orthodox icons, but consider the Judge Roy Moore story, where the demonstrators were saying that “You can’t take our God out of the Courthouse” – with reference to the Ten Commandments. (I was dumbfounded at this story, thinking, “Hey, did you ever **read the list**? You’re breaking one of them right now!”) The Golden Calf was not intended as representing another god, but was supposed to be a physical representation of YHWH that the Israelites could bow down to in symbolism of their devotion to Him. Traditionally, it means just what it says: don’t direct your priorities to an image, whether of Him or of Anygod Else. But by extension, don’t put anything else in the #1 place that God should occupy in your life (according to His rules, that is). ---
**Author:** ![El\_Zagna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d2c977/32.png) [@El\_Zagna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Zagna)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2005, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-question-whats-the-deal-with-all-the-idol-worshiping/293206/3 "2005-03-06T15:32:11Z")
I’ll acknowledge that it’s easy to make material things the highest priority in your life, but when the Bible talks about idols it is often directly rerferring to objects such as wooden statutes, and when it talks about worshiping it appears to me to mean the actual bowing down or praying to these objects. The Old Testamant seems to be quite concerned with the narrow definition of idol worship, yet this is not much of an issue today. Other than the highly ironic cases of devout Catholics praying to statutes of the Virgin Mary and fundamentalists calling a chisled stone “our God”, idol worshiping is pretty rare these days. I have to wonder if there wasn’t a completely different mind set back then. ---
**Author:** ![Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Speaker_for_the_Dead)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2005, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-question-whats-the-deal-with-all-the-idol-worshiping/293206/4 "2005-03-06T16:09:27Z")
A History of God, by [mumbles], explains this one pretty well. At the time that God was leading the freed slaves through the desert, pretty much every other religion (including the original religions of the Hebrew wanderers) worshiped idols. It may seem stupid that they decided to make the calf, but it was really just because that’s what people did when they worshiped. Interestingly, the golden calf was a traditional idol of El, a sky god who may have been the basis for Abraham’s God. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2005, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-question-whats-the-deal-with-all-the-idol-worshiping/293206/5 "2005-03-06T16:58:03Z")
> [@El Zagna](#): > > . Other than the highly ironic cases of devout Catholics praying to statutes of the Virgin Mary … Catholics do not pray to statues. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Zagna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d2c977/32.png) [@El\_Zagna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Zagna)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2005, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-question-whats-the-deal-with-all-the-idol-worshiping/293206/6 "2005-03-06T16:58:58Z")
OK, that would explain why it’s mentioned in the Ten Commandments, but even hundreds of years later the Israelis are still acting bad by worshiping idols. I’m reading the Bible straight through and I’m up to Jeremiah, and he’s still harping about idol worshiping. I know old habits are hard to break, but still. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Zagna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d2c977/32.png) [@El\_Zagna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Zagna)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2005, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-question-whats-the-deal-with-all-the-idol-worshiping/293206/7 "2005-03-06T17:22:04Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Catholics do not pray to statues. Sure. I was being a bit flippant there, however I do wonder if crucifixes, shrines, etc. don’t fall under the idolotry clause. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2005, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-question-whats-the-deal-with-all-the-idol-worshiping/293206/8 "2005-03-06T17:24:14Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Catholics do not pray to statues. In theory they don’t. In practice, some do. And some pray to images of the Virgin on a tortilla. (And I say this as a former Catholic.) ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2005, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-question-whats-the-deal-with-all-the-idol-worshiping/293206/9 "2005-03-06T17:34:56Z")
> [@El Zagna](#): > > Other than the highly ironic cases of devout Catholics praying to statutes of the Virgin Mary Catholics pray to the Virgin Mary and to the saints for intercession with God. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2005, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-question-whats-the-deal-with-all-the-idol-worshiping/293206/10 "2005-03-06T17:42:39Z")
The Christian law against idol worship is like the third amendment of the Constitution - it succeeded so well in addressing the problem that modern readers wonder why it was needed in the first place. But back when it was written, idol worship (like quartering soldiers) was a real issue. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Zagna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d2c977/32.png) [@El\_Zagna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Zagna)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2005, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-question-whats-the-deal-with-all-the-idol-worshiping/293206/11 "2005-03-06T17:56:17Z")
> [@Little Nemo](#): > > The Christian law against idol worship… Do Muslims worship idols? What about Hindus or Wiccans? They may for all I know, but I don’t think so. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2005, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-question-whats-the-deal-with-all-the-idol-worshiping/293206/12 "2005-03-06T18:11:05Z")
> [@El Zagna](#): > > OK, that would explain why it’s mentioned in the Ten Commandments, but even hundreds of years later the Israelis are still acting bad by worshiping idols. I’m reading the Bible straight through and I’m up to Jeremiah, and he’s still harping about idol worshiping. I know old habits are hard to break, but still. Foreign influences - remember, the rest of the world didn’t catch on to the concept of an abstract diety until the Christians got popular. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2005, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-question-whats-the-deal-with-all-the-idol-worshiping/293206/13 "2005-03-06T18:37:49Z")
Someone will probably be along shortly to clean up any of my mistakes but here’s my take. The ancient Hebrews were most likely polytheists, like everyone else, having a god for storms, a god for good crops, a god for protection from sickness, etc. Somewhere along the line the idea developed that there was a principal God, Jahveh. About the time of the Babylonian captivity an influential group, Javists, began to promote the theory that there was just one God who was that same Jahveh. This became very important during the captivity as a way of keeping the Israelites together as an identifiable group. One result of this attempt to avoid the loss of group identity was writing down the Israelite history and that writing became the Bible. One way to try to maintain that identity was to bear down on the idea of just one God as distinguished from all of those surrounding louts who believed in a whole bunch of gods. So in the writings the Javists began to emphasize that the one God really hated it when people paid homage to any diety, or any artistic representation of a diety, but Him. ---
**Author:** ![Thinktank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Thinktank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thinktank)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2005, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-question-whats-the-deal-with-all-the-idol-worshiping/293206/14 "2005-03-06T18:40:17Z")
> [@](#): > > Was it the “bowing down before the golden calf” thing that was so bad or was it more loosely defined to mean something like skewed priorities? What I have come to know whenever discussing the bible is the word “interpreted”, if you say it means “this” then someone will disagree and say it’s “that”, if you say is was a certain time, then another will have their words for you. But beneath all our human trivialities, if you are serious in regards to understanding (not just here for “someone’s answer” ), then you must commit yourself to finding this answer in yourself. Put it this way, when you’re taught to drive, you’re taught that for a mack truck to see you, you have to be able to see their head in their side mirror. If man was created in God’s image, don’t you think the two would have to permanently connected in some way? ``` If however, you want a short, shallow, answer that is just based upon my opinion then go with option #2 that is "skewed priorities". ``` ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2005, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-question-whats-the-deal-with-all-the-idol-worshiping/293206/15 "2005-03-06T18:45:05Z")
> [@David Simmons](#): > > Someone will probably be along shortly to clean up any of my mistakes but here’s my take. > > The ancient Hebrews were most likely polytheists, like everyone else, having a god for storms, a god for good crops, a god for protection from sickness, etc. Somewhere along the line the idea developed that there was a principal God, Jahveh. > > About the time of the Babylonian captivity an influential group, Javists, began to promote the theory that there was just one God who was that same Jahveh. This became very important during the captivity as a way of keeping the Israelites together as an identifiable group… The Isrealites appears to have been mostly Monotheistic (or perhaps in some cases henotheistic) rather earlier than that. Sure-there are some indications that Y had a Consort at some early period, and that in some sects the consort continued. Some have guessed (based up the plurals used) that perhaps what the very early Isrealites worshiped was a single God with many aspects. ---
**Author:** ![Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Speaker_for_the_Dead)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2005, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-question-whats-the-deal-with-all-the-idol-worshiping/293206/16 "2005-03-06T18:56:44Z")
> [@El Zagna](#): > > Do Muslims worship idols? What about Hindus or Wiccans? They may for all I know, but I don’t think so. Muslims very certainly don’t. They go so far as to not allow _any_ representation of either Allah or Muhammed to be made. A movie was made from Muhammed’s perspective reasonably recently, but you never heard what he said, since that would be depicting him. > [@Alessan](#): > > Foreign influences - remember, the rest of the world didn’t catch on to the concept of an abstract diety until the Christians got popular. Yeah, if you’re the only non-idol worshiping nation in an area, you’re going to have a lot of people (especially those on the borders and in large trading cities) “reverting” to the earlier idol-worship. ---
**Author:** ![Opus1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/858c86/32.png) [@Opus1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Opus1)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2005, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-question-whats-the-deal-with-all-the-idol-worshiping/293206/17 "2005-03-06T19:03:51Z")
Another thing to consider is that religion and politics were quite interchangeable in the ancient Middle East (unlike today, natch). Often, when a king is accused of allowing and even worshipping foreign idols placed in Israeli territory, what the authors mean is that he tolerated foreign subjugation of Israel. The foreign idols were similar to a modern day foreign flag flying in conquered or colonized territory. Of course, the king often didn’t have a choice in the matter given that Israel was a minnow among whales. The rare king who did stand up is praised (see Isaiah’s treatment of Hezekiah, for example), even when his efforts ended in disaster. This is from one of R.E. Friedman’s books, probably _Who Wrote the Bible?_, but I couldn’t swear to it. ---
**Author:** ![James\_Westphal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9bd4f/32.png) [@James\_Westphal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/James_Westphal)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2005, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-question-whats-the-deal-with-all-the-idol-worshiping/293206/18 "2005-03-07T21:13:10Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Catholics do not pray to statues. This is quite a generalization. Perhaps you mean that they pray directly to God or Jesus or a Saint anywhere they want, but when they do pray in the presence of a crucifix, bible, blessed spring or that used piece of toilet paper that resembles Madonna, how does it differ from someone worshipping another God through an idol (and being frank about it)? If Catholics don’t pray ‘to statues,’ hardly anyone does. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2005, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-question-whats-the-deal-with-all-the-idol-worshiping/293206/19 "2005-03-07T22:29:53Z")
> [@James Westphal](#): > > This is quite a generalization. Perhaps you mean that they pray directly to God or Jesus or a Saint anywhere they want, but when they do pray in the presence of a crucifix, bible, blessed spring or that used piece of toilet paper that resembles Madonna, how does it differ from someone worshipping another God through an idol (and being frank about it)? > If Catholics don’t pray ‘to statues,’ hardly anyone does. I’m a Culturally Byzantine Catholic Agnostic, but even so I find the tone of your post insulting. Read a good many Chick tracts and swallowed the message whole? Perhaps I should explain it to you in the simple terms Fr. Mankovich once explained it to a Methodist yoot: Do you have a picture of your mother? Does the picture remind you of your mother? Do you know the difference between the picture and your mother? Icons, paintings, and statues serve the same purpose for Catholics in their relationship with God that your picture of your mother serves in your relationship with her. ---
**Author:** ![Zahava424](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/76d3ee/32.png) [@Zahava424](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zahava424)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2005, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-question-whats-the-deal-with-all-the-idol-worshiping/293206/20 "2005-03-07T22:55:13Z")
I would stay far, far away from the golden calf thing in this thread-- the opinions on what was actually going on and whether it can be classified idol worship are very divided. But as for the instances in Jeremiah (and other books in that general secton of the Bible) those are unequivocally idol worship. Polycarp’s materialism/physical focus-as-idolatry idea is, I think, valid, though it took a different form in the Biblical era than it does today. Because the surrounding culture did serve physical idols (like statues, the sun, etc.), that was the temptation in terms of a physical focus. Today, it seems fairly ridiculous (at least in this country) to worship a statue, and our problems come from other sources. Haven’t you heard sermons about “the false idols of [fill in blank]”? This one mentions that idea, referencing a statement by the pope that asks us to reject the false idols of materialism. [http://www.catholicity.com/mccloskey/articles/backtofuture.html](http://www.catholicity.com/mccloskey/articles/backtofuture.html) But the literal idolatry of then is something we just can’t fully relate to. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-question-whats-the-deal-with-all-the-idol-worshiping/293206.md?page=2)