# Bible Question: Who/What are "Gog" and "magog"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 12, 2007, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-question-who-what-are-gog-and-magog/387694 "2007-01-12T13:21:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-question-who-what-are-gog-and-magog/387694/1 "2007-01-12T13:21:52Z")
In the OT, these characters are said to be some kind of giants-but who are they, and what is their function? Are they from god or the devil? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-question-who-what-are-gog-and-magog/387694/2 "2007-01-12T13:27:01Z")
> **[Gog and Magog](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gog_and_Magog)** > > Gog and Magog (/ˈɡɒɡ ... ˈmeɪɡɒɡ/; Hebrew: גּוֹג וּמָגוֹג, romanized: Gōg ū-Māgōg), or Ya'juj and Ma'juj (Arabic: يَأْجُوجُ وَمَأْجُوجُ, romanized: Yaʾjūju wa-Maʾjūju), are a pair of names that appear in the Hebrew Bible, the New Testament of the Christian Bible, and the Quran, variously ascribed to individuals, tribes, or lands. In Ezekiel 38, Gog is an individual and Magog is his land. By the time of the New Testament's Revelation 20, Abrahamic tradition had come to view Ezekiel's "Gog fr The ... > [@](#): > > The tradition of Gog and Magog begins in the Bible with the reference to Magog, son of Japheth, in the Book of Genesis and continues in cryptic prophecies in the Book of Ezekiel, which are echoed in the Book of Revelation. The tradition is very ambiguous with even the very nature of the entities differing between sources. They are variously presented as men, supernatural beings (giants or demons), national groups, or lands. Gog and Magog appear in the Qur’an and occur widely in mythology and folklore. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-question-who-what-are-gog-and-magog/387694/3 "2007-01-12T13:46:14Z")
IIRC, the doubling of Magog to a pair, Gog and Magog, is now thought to be a translation error. But once it got into the Bible, it had scriptural authority, and the road was set for a pair of warrior bothers named Gog and Magog. (Of course they were thought to be brothers – that clicks with thwe similar names, a commonplace in stories). There used to be statues of Gog and Magog, depicted as giants, in London. They show up in one of Hogarth;s prints, bearded guys with Roman helmets. I first heard the name when I was a kid. Someone with too much historical or biblical knowledge named a pair of robots Gog and Magog in the 1954 science fiction film **Gog**. I gues by the fifties this bit of Bible trivia had become obscure enough so that nobody would squawk if applied to a Robot, yet sounded appropriately weird. Gog the robot wasn’t really big and imposing-looking, but he had pincer arms and a built-in flame-thrower. (For a robot intended to be a do-it-all at a nuclear installation. What the hell did he need a flame-thrower for?) The film was in color and 3-D, although only one not-too-good 3D copy has survived. > **[Gog (1954) ⭐ 5.4 | Drama, Horror, Romance](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0047033/)** > > 1h 23m | Approved ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-question-who-what-are-gog-and-magog/387694/4 "2007-01-12T13:52:19Z")
[QUOTE=CalMeacham] Someone with too much historical or biblical knowledge named a pair of robots Gog and Magog in the 1954 science fiction film **Gog**. I gues by the fifties this bit of Bible trivia had become obscure enough so that nobody would squawk if applied to a Robot, yet sounded appropriately weird. [/QUOTE] In the early-'80s I worked with a guy who had an old car. Its black-and-yellow license plate was YOT 103. I was making super-8 films with friends at the time, and I thought that _YOT 103_ (pronounced ‘yott-one-oh-three’) would be a good title for a little film about a killer robot car. Then _Christine_ came out. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-question-who-what-are-gog-and-magog/387694/5 "2007-01-12T20:11:03Z")
Oh Magog! ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-question-who-what-are-gog-and-magog/387694/6 "2007-01-12T20:32:55Z")
[http://www.noble-gas.com/Magog-Bros.mp3](http://www.noble-gas.com/Magog-Bros.mp3) Magog Brothers Atlantis Carpet Reclaimers: Yes my brother Gog was wrong about the comet How were we to know that it would land in the middle of our giant warehouse It’s a cataclysmic sale Down here we’re flooded We’re over our four heads in remnants Burnin’ and legal From naturally famous weaves as Royal Mu, Lemuri, Westernesque, and Munchkin Mills Dog Hairs, Nurb Balls, Slick Snacks, and Trip Easy We got ‘em…………………….You get ‘em Your nap will rise again And that’s my story Good God, it’s Magog Brothers Atlantis Carpet Reclaimers Serving Heater, Hellmouth, and the low desert area ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-question-who-what-are-gog-and-magog/387694/7 "2007-01-12T23:02:28Z")
For the first story in the first issue of _Mad_: Daphne: That’s the Bogg house! They tell many stories of the Bogg house in the village! Stories of two brothers, Gog and Magog Bogg who lived there alone! They hardly ever left the mansion! One day, Gog Bogg was found under a log, **without his head!** Magog was suspected as the murderer… went stark raving insane! They say Gog’s head is still in the Bogg house and they say that Gog comes looking for it every night! But… **we do need that gasoline bucket, eh, Galusha!** I’ll knock and see it anyone is at home! ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2007, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-question-who-what-are-gog-and-magog/387694/8 "2007-01-13T01:27:04Z")
[QUOTE=Bryan Ekers] For the first story in the first issue of _Mad_: Daphne: That’s the Bogg house! They tell many stories of the Bogg house in the village! Stories of two brothers, Gog and Magog Bogg who lived there alone! They hardly ever left the mansion! One day, Gog Bogg was found under a log, **without his head!** Magog was suspected as the murderer… went stark raving insane! They say Gog’s head is still in the Bogg house and they say that Gog comes looking for it every night! But… **we do need that gasoline bucket, eh, Galusha!** I’ll knock and see it anyone is at home! [/QUOTE] And for anyone who didn’t already know, “bog house” is British slang for a toilet or outhouse. ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2007, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-question-who-what-are-gog-and-magog/387694/9 "2007-01-13T02:38:12Z")
Gog is what a goggle is called when it grows up. And Magog, naturally, is its mom. Hope this helps with the Bible study. Remember, it was dictated by the Lord Almighty, so if it doesn’t make sense it’s your own damn fault. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2007, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-question-who-what-are-gog-and-magog/387694/10 "2007-01-13T14:32:19Z")
In the Ezekiel passage (Ch 38-39), Gog is the title given to the “prince of Magog”, a northern people who will conspire with other groups, such as “Meshech”, “Tubal”, “Gomer”, “Togamar”, “Cush”, “Persia” and “Put” to attack Israel. This attack will be put down by Divine Fire. What is the Battle of Gog & Magog? Some see this as a prediction/description of the Maccabean revolt against the Greco-Syrian tyrrany of Antiochus IV Epiphanes in the 160s BC, or the Esther-led Jewish resistance to Haman’s forces in the Persian Empire (I guess around 400s BC). Others as a still-future attack by the former Soviet nations, a Muslim alliance, or the legions of AntiChrist. ---
**Author:** ![Terrorcotta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dbc845/32.png) [@Terrorcotta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrorcotta)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2007, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-question-who-what-are-gog-and-magog/387694/11 "2007-01-13T15:25:03Z")
Thanks for asking the question and all the answers! I stayed in Magog, Canada and wondered what the name meant just not enough to go look it up… ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2007, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-question-who-what-are-gog-and-magog/387694/12 "2007-01-13T15:48:47Z")
My annotated Genesis (JPS Torah Commentary, by Nahum M. Sarna) says: > [@](#): > > _ **Magog** _ - The name has become famous through the combination “Gog and Magog” based on Ezekiel 38 and 39, which came to be used figuratively for the final war that is to prelude the messianic age. The name “Magog” however has not yet turned up in extrabiblical sources. From the passages in Ezekiel, it is clear that the land of Magog was thought to be in the furthermost reaches of the north, which may possibly mean southern Russia or Asia. Further: although “Gog and Magog” have become associated as two warriors, it is clear from the Ezekiel text that Gog is the name of a person, and Magog the name of a country or land area. The reference to Magog in Genesis comes as a son of Japeth (hence a grandson of Noah), each one of which branched out to create a nation or clan. Hence, Magog as a person is the eponymous founder of the land of Magog. > [@Terrifel](#): > > Remember, it was dictated by the Lord Almighty, so if it doesn’t make sense it’s your own damn fault. Well, here’s my thought: regardless of who wrote it, there WAS someone (or perhaps several authors) who wrote, compiled, and edited to a final form. We are certainly as justified in asking about names, literary themes, author’s intent, and meanings as we would be if we were reading _Crime and Punishment_ or _Gulliver’s Travels_. So, even if you don’t think there is some divine inspiration in the bible, don’t pooh-pooh it as a subject for study. (I personally think there is divine inspiration in most great works of art and literature and music, but that’s me.) ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2007, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-question-who-what-are-gog-and-magog/387694/13 "2007-01-13T16:17:16Z")
FWIW, Gog & Magog were the names of Robbie-type robots in a 50’s cheap sci-fi film. Can’t remember the name. Needless to say, they went berserk, either to fulfill prophecy or because the suit the actors were hiding is was suffocating. ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2007, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-question-who-what-are-gog-and-magog/387694/14 "2007-01-13T17:16:06Z")
[QUOTE=C K Dexter Haven] Well, here’s my thought: regardless of who wrote it, there WAS someone (or perhaps several authors) who wrote, compiled, and edited to a final form. We are certainly as justified in asking about names, literary themes, author’s intent, and meanings as we would be if we were reading _Crime and Punishment_ or _Gulliver’s Travels_. So, even if you don’t think there is some divine inspiration in the bible, don’t pooh-pooh it as a subject for study. [/quote] Merely a passing attempt at humor on my part. Rest assured I have no objection to Bible study. For example, **FriarTed** has pointed out that the book of Ezekiel links Gog and Magog to names such as “Tubal” and “Gomer.” If I knew my scripture better, I could have made fun of them instead. > [@](#): > > \*(I personally think there is divine inspiration in most great works of art and literature and music, but that’s me.) \*You think you’re the divine inspiration behind most great works of art, literature and music? Sure, don’t let that SDMB administrative position go to your head or anything. ---
**Author:** ![PoorYorick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecccb3/32.png) [@PoorYorick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PoorYorick)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2007, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-question-who-what-are-gog-and-magog/387694/15 "2007-01-13T19:34:10Z")
When I was in Sunday School at a particularly fundamentalist Baptist church, we were taught that there was absolutely no ambiguity about Gog and Magog. They represented the United States and the Soviet Union. I’m pretty sure there was no particular scholarly reason for this; it just fit into the fundamentalist mind set. You gotta love Revelations for the same reason you’d love Nostradamus. ---
**Author:** ![Antonius\_Block](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/51bf81/32.png) [@Antonius\_Block](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antonius_Block)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2007, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-question-who-what-are-gog-and-magog/387694/16 "2007-01-14T10:59:07Z")
[QUOTE=CalMeacham] There used to be statues of Gog and Magog, depicted as giants, in London. [/QUOTE] Gog and Magog are an important component in one of London’s oldest “foundation legends”, and are often considered the mythical guardians of the City of London. As such, there have been statues of them in the [Guildhall](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guildhall%2C_London#Gog_and_Magog) (the ceremonial center of the City) for centuries. The first recorded [statues](http://collage.cityoflondon.gov.uk/collage/image?id=49717&resolution=2) , referred to in Mark Twain’s [The Prince and the Pauper](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Prince_and_the_Pauper): > [@](#): > > At a lower table the Court grandees and other guests of noble degree were seated, with the magnates of the city; the commoners took places at a multitude of tables on the main floor of the hall. From their lofty vantage-ground the giants Gog and Magog, the ancient guardians of the city, contemplated the spectacle below them with eyes grown familiar to it in forgotten generations. These statues were destroyed in the [Great Fire of London](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Fire_of_London) in 1666, and were replaced by 14-ft wooden replacements, carved in 1708: [Gog](http://www.ph.ucla.edu/epi/snow/1859map/guildhall_a9.html) and [Magog](http://www.ph.ucla.edu/epi/snow/1859map/guildhall_a10.html) . The Guildhall was again destroyed in 1940, this time by the Luftwaffe during the Blitz. In 1953, new [statues](http://www.britannica.com/eb/art-5706) were carved to go inside the rebuilt Guildhall. [Here’s Magog](http://pmsa.cch.kcl.ac.uk/images/nrpCL/clcol024x.jpg) _in situ_. Giant balloon representations of Gog and Magog make their annual appearance in the [Lord Mayor’s Show](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_Mayor%27s_Show): 2004 photo [here](http://haldenphotography.com/lms/php/viewphoto.php?photos_per_page=10&i=8&gallery=2004). In the London mythos, Gog wields a spiked-ball-and-chain on a stick (sometimes called a _Morning Glory_ although this name may be erroneous), has a bow and quiver-full of arrows on his back, and usually stands on the north side of a pair of statues. His brother Magog carries a [halberd](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halberd), and stands to the south. There’s a legend that has London founded by [Brutus the Trojan around 1070 BC](http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A863309), in which Brutus and his future “Britons” sailed up the Thames and fought the underground-dwelling giants led by Gog and Magog. _[I’m going from memory here, cites available later…]_ Magog saw it as advantageous to ally with the Britons, so Gog rushed him swinging his mace. Magog won the battle, but the newly-arrived “Britons” helped nurse Gog back to health, and ever since the brothers have been protectors of the City. [The City is also protected by [dragons](http://www.james.rcpt.to/gallery/2005/London%20Dragons/), which appear on the [Coat of Arms](http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/gb-lond.html#coa), but they were a 17th century heraldic addition. [Here](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e5/Temple-bar-griffin.jpg) is the most famous one at Temple Bar. For some reason, many people think they’re [griffins](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griffin#Heraldic_Griffins), but they’re most definitely _dragons_.] The London-mythos Gog and Magog also made it Down Under in the form of hourly-bell-striking statues at the [Royal Arcade](http://studenttravel.about.com/od/melbournephotos/ig/Melbourne-Street-Photos/Gog-and-Magog--Royal-Arcade.htm) in Melbourne, although the Magog there seems to be missing his halberd. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2007, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-question-who-what-are-gog-and-magog/387694/17 "2007-01-14T13:14:34Z")
Magog was the second son of Japheth, son of Noah. “Japheth’s sons were Gomer, Magog, Madai, Javan, Tubal, Meshech, and Tiras.” Gomer was the eponymous ancestor of the Cimmerians, Madia of the Medes, Javan of the Ionian Greeks, etc. Magog was supposed to be ancestor of the Lydians. Which brings us to Gog, supposedly representative of the legendary early king of Lydia, Gyges. There is one passage somewhere in Scripture that refers to him as “Gog king of Magog,” though I cannot quickly dig up a cite.