Bible question: Why did God favor Abel's offering over Cain's?

[Guinastasia]

@Revenant_Threshold

Perhaps it’s a difference in the quality within their means? Abel gives “fat portions” from the firstborn of the flock, while Cain brings just “some” of the fruits of the soil. Maybe if Cain had brought the best of his produce (or Abel had offered the sickest and runtiest sheep) it would have been accepted? Pretty much just an equivalent to the spirit of the giving argument, really.

That’s how I was taught. Sr. Frances Ramona said Cain basically went around the garden, grabbing any old thing at random, and Abel went and brought the first born lamb from his flock, the very best he could give.

So Cain was really just lazy and didn’t put any effort into his sacrifice. He really didn’t seem to give a shit.

[Shodan]

@Lobohan

Another way to look at it would be that you have to be heavily invested in believing before you can strongly embrace pure rubbish. This isn’t rocket science, it’s a book written by primitives.

at best, this is like dismissing The Iliad because you don’t believe in Zeus or the Styx.

For better or worse, the Bible in general is seminal to any understanding of much of Western culture for the last fifteen hundred years or so. If you don’t want to understand it, you don’t have to, but that is not because of any flaw in the Cain and Abel story.

Regards,
Shodan

[mr.jp]

To me, the obvious guess would be that God liked meat.

[Guinastasia]

Also, the Bible isn’t just one book – it’s a collection of many different stories.

[Blaster_Master]

@Malleus_Incus_Stapes

According to the Rabbis, it’s a mix of 2 and 3.

I was raised Episcopalian, and this is more or less what I was taught as well. Abel chose the fat portions of the firstborn (the most desired parts of the most desired animals), while Cain just brought a portion of his harvest. The implication, to me, is that Abel was doing it genuinely and Cain was just sort of going through the motions. I hadn’t heard the bribe perspective before, but that wouldn’t surprise me either

[BrainGlutton]

@Captain_Amazing

Except, like you said, the text also says “If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door”

Yes, but Calvinism says your choices are not free but predestined.

[BrainGlutton]

@Shodan

Genesis is full of these really old and interesting stories, that are just sort of presented but not always explained.

Regards,
Shodan

Perhaps such stories’ meaning was clearer to readers/hearers at the time they were written down.

[BrainGlutton]

@Voyager

When the Bible was written I think the priests got to eat the sacrifices when the ceremony was over.

Sometimes. Sometimes a “burnt offering” was made of the whole animal. The Greeks called that a holocaust, whence the common name for the Final Solution.

[BrainGlutton]

@Cosmic Relief

It’s interesting that in many primitive cultures, there is a strong cultural expectation that meat is to be shared, but not vegetables. This makes sense because fruits and vegetables are pretty much a function of time and labor, while meat is a high-calorie windfall that comes unpredictably, often in amounts too great for one family to consume, and cannot be stored. Thus, hoarding meat is extremely antisocial, while making claims on someone’s vegetables is a presumption on their time.

In some historical novels I’ve read set in ancient Greece, the meat of a sacrifice (other than a holocaust) is supposed to be shared out among the owner/offeror of the animal, the priests, and anyone who happens to be walking past the temple at the time – it’s considered good luck to share a sacrifice. Don’t know if that was true.

If so, temple steps must have been popular hangouts. Most people in those days couldn’t afford to eat four-footed meat very often.

[BrainGlutton]

@Yllaria

I always interpreted “fat portions” as being meat with a lot of fat on it. So Abel was giving “some” of his harvest, just as Cain was. It just had lovely fat on it, which grain and vegetables won’t have. Is there some biblical reference to the smell of the sizzling fat in the sacrifice rising up and pleasing the Lord? Not necessarily in Genesis. Or am I mis-remembering?

I don’t know, but in a Greek sacrifice (other than a holocaust), only the fat and leg bones of the animal were burnt on the altar. The worshippers got to eat the rest. (There’s a story that Zeus was ready to forgive Prometheus’ theft of fire when mortals started making pleasing burnt offerings. But, Prometheus showed Zeus a pile of chops and roasts, covered with scraps and entrails, and a pile of sinews and bones, covered with fat, and asked Zeus which he would rather have offered. Zeus chose the latter, and, when he learned he had been tricked, had Prometheus chained to the rock, in punishment for teaching mortals to trick the gods.)

[BrainGlutton]

@mr.jp

To me, the obvious guess would be that God liked meat.

That would explain a lot about life.

[Thudlow_Boink]

@Malleus_Incus_Stapes

At least, that’s how I understand it. For an explanation from a real rabbi, see David Fohrman’s serialized series The World’s First Murder. (The links that connect the parts seem to be missing, so look for parts 2-15 here). It’s really good- he takes all the weird stuff and textual anamolies, and actually gets them to make sense. For that matter, read part 1, Serpents of Desire, which does the same thing with Adam and Eve.

Interesting. Thanks for the link.

[kanicbird]

Cain being the first child of Adam and Eve after the curses placed on them for eating of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil may have something to do with it, along with the curses on Eve being basically about reproduction, and the only real known rule of the Garden of Eden ‘be fruitful and increase’. Children can inherit the curses of their parents. It is very likely that Cain did and was born evil. As such he would not have the same motivation of the heart that a good child would have, so it was simply impossible for Cain to make the proper sacrifice as his heart was evil. God looks at the heart when judging us.

[Musicat]

@mr.jp

To me, the obvious guess would be that God liked meat.

Or, to expand on that premise a bit, the social norms of the time, or perhaps the prejudices of the tale teller, put a greater value on meat than veggies. I do, myself. Nothing mysterious or supernatural about it.

If I had written the story, the giver of cheese curds would be honored more than the supplier of spinach. “Thou who givest of the curds be dairy blesséd among men. Curséd be he, the green leaf bearer! For he shall be visited with grief, nay, unto the 3rd and 4th generation; verily, he shall not rest because of his abomination. His berry patch shall be torn asunder and scattered to the four winds…”

[aruvqan]

@Jas09

This is what I was always taught in (Baptist) Sunday School. The key portions being exactly what you have highlighted - “some” vs. “fat portions”. The nature of the offering (meat vs. veggies) was never considered relevant by my instructors. The implication is also that Cain knew what he was offering was unacceptable (which is why God asks why he is angry and tell him if he just did what was right he would be accepted). Of course then Cain flips out and goes all fratricidal and then all bets are off.

I see that others were taught the “blood” lesson so perhaps that was just glossed over in my (admittedly pretty young) Sunday School.

you do realize that the fattest portion of the sheep is the fat deposit in the tail? It really isnt meat, it is mainly fat wrapped around just barely enough muscle to move the tail, bone and skin/hair.

[StaudtCJ]

I’ve been taught several different potential reasons for God to be upset.

Reason 1: Abel gave the best of the best. Cain gave “good enough”. Bad Cain.
Reason 2: Abel loved, and I mean LOVED his sheep. He gave God his absolutely favorite one. Cain loved his brother, not his crops. He gave crops. Then when that wasn’t good enough, he gave his brother, but Cain hadn’t eaten the fancy fruit, so he didn’t know it was wrong. That’s why God let him live.
Reason 3: Abel made a fancy altar and took extra time. He gave of himself. Cain made up a quick little altar and gave some stuff to the sky-dude cause daddy said so, and then went on with his work, because crops wait for no one and he was busy. He didn’t give of himself. Bad Cain.
Reason 4: God prefers blood. It makes a pleasing odor. Cooking meat smells yummy. Burning corn husks, not so much. Abel gave what GOD wanted, Cain gave what was available.

Which of these is right? Depends on the biblical scholar you talk to, I’d guess.

[Guinastasia]

@mr.jp

To me, the obvious guess would be that God liked meat.

@BrainGlutton

That would explain a lot about life.

I’m guessing PETA wasn’t a big fan of God.

[Shawn1767]

So, why does God need a spaceship?

Er, I mean, why would the most powerful being in the universe who can create matter at will need a meat or any other kind of sacrifice? To prove your faithfulness? Um, couldn’t an all-knowing God just read your mind and tell your faithfulness without having to kill something?

[dropzone]

@mr.jp

To me, the obvious guess would be that God liked meat.

@Leviticus 1:9

but its inwards and its legs shall he wash with water; and the priest shall make the whole smoke on the altar, for a burnt-offering, an offering made by fire, of a sweet savour unto the LORD.

Leviticus is fun, especially the part about sacrifices, because “Aaron’s sons, the priests” get the leftovers and they seem mighty testy about the crap people have tried to pawn off on them in the past.

Personally, I go with #5 and ignore the contortions commentators, who were not pastoralists, have gone through to try to put a good and logical (to them) spin on a few verses that read like a police report. The math’s easy: Abel=shepherd=good, Cain=farmer=bad.

[dropzone]

@Shawn1767

Er, I mean, why would the most powerful being in the universe who can create matter at will need a meat or any other kind of sacrifice?

Good question. He lives outside of time and no other rules apply to Him so He could go on a BBQ tour of the US, granting sainthood to the just and damnation to those whose sauce tastes too much of vinegar.