# Bible reference wanted **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 17, 2000, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-reference-wanted/29710 "2000-08-17T09:55:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ticker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d07c76/32.png) [@ticker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ticker)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2000, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-reference-wanted/29710/1 "2000-08-17T09:55:38Z")
I watched Mississippi Burning last night. Very cool movie IMHO. At one point one of the characters said that, as a Mississipian, she had been taught that segregation was supported by the Bible and gave a reference (Genesis something I think). I do not own a Bible so I could not look it up there and then. Does anybody know the passage? ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2000, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-reference-wanted/29710/2 "2000-08-17T13:07:31Z")
I think what you mean is “black folks being enslaved is supported by the Bible,” rather than just simply “segregation”. I may be off-base here, but IIRC the following passage may be the one. I think the reasoning goes, according to 19th century racist theory, that after the Flood each son went forth to found a race, with one of them being black, one white, one yellow, etc. Evidently “Ham” or his son “Canaan” was interpreted by these people as being “the black race”, some researchers having supposedly traced them back to Ethiopia. But I’m not sure what the actual train of thought or scientific “proof” was. > [@](#): > > Gen 9:18 The sons of Noah who came out of the ark were Shem, Ham and Japheth. (Ham was the father of Canaan.) > Gen 9:19 These were the three sons of Noah, and from them came the people who were scattered over the earth. > Gen 9:20 Noah, a man of the soil, proceeded to plant a vineyard. > Gen 9:21 When he drank some of its wine, he became drunk and lay uncovered inside his tent. > Gen 9:22 Ham, the father of Canaan, saw his father’s nakedness and told his two brothers outside. > Gen 9:23 But Shem and Japheth took a garment and laid it across their shoulders; then they walked in backward and covered their father’s nakedness. Their faces were turned the other way so that they would not see their father’s nakedness. > Gen 9:24 When Noah awoke from his wine and found out what his youngest son had done to him, > Gen 9:25 he said, “Cursed be Canaan! The lowest of slaves will he be to his brothers.” > Gen 9:26 He also said, “Blessed be the LORD, the God of Shem! May Canaan be the slave of Shem. > Gen 9:27 May God extend the territory of Japheth ; may Japheth live in the tents of Shem, and may Canaan be his slave.” ---
**Author:** ![ticker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d07c76/32.png) [@ticker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ticker)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2000, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-reference-wanted/29710/3 "2000-08-17T13:19:13Z")
Thanks Duck The character in the movie definitly mentioned segregation but since this essentially grew out of earlier slavery I would guess the ‘justification’ for one would serve for the other. If I can find somebody with it on tape I will check the chapter/verse but I suspect you have it. Thanks again ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2000, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-reference-wanted/29710/4 "2000-08-17T17:21:39Z")
This might also be referring to the Mark of Cain, mentioned in [Genesis 4:15](http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=GEN+4&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=off). Some folks have claimed that the mark of Cain was black skin, and that blacks are therefore evil, but there’s even less to support this than there is for the ham story: The mark is said to be put just on Cain, without mention of his decendents, and its purpose was to keep folks from killing him, not to enslave him. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2000, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-reference-wanted/29710/5 "2000-08-17T17:29:33Z")
Duck Duck Goose said: > [@](#): > > Evidently “Ham” or his son “Canaan” was interpreted by these people as being “the black race”, some researchers having supposedly traced them back to Ethiopia. Well, amongst the sons of Ham were Mitzrayim, which is known to be the biblical name of Egypt, and and Cush, which is known to be the biblical name for Ethiopia, so people probably extrapolated from that that all of Ham’s sons settled somewhere in Africa. Then again, Canaan was the name that the Bible uses for the land now known as Israel prior to the Israelites settling it, so I don’t think that that extrapolation makes much sense. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2000, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-reference-wanted/29710/6 "2000-08-17T18:43:32Z")
And for what it’s worth, the Old Testament contains a story which may be construed as a condemnation of racism. In [Numbers chapter 13](http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=NUM+12&language=english&version=KJV&showfn=off), Miriam and Aaron are rebuked and punished after they criticized Moses for taking an Ethiopian wife. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2000, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-reference-wanted/29710/7 "2000-08-17T18:45:00Z")
Eep! I meant Numbers chapter 12. ---
**Author:** ![labradorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3ec8ea/32.png) [@labradorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/labradorian)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2000, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-reference-wanted/29710/8 "2000-08-17T19:15:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cmkeller \* > \*\*Well, amongst the sons of Ham were Mitzrayim, which is known to be the biblical name of Egypt \*\* Whence, I presume, the modern Egyptian name for Egypt, Misr? Kewl. You learn several new things every day. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2000, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-reference-wanted/29710/9 "2000-08-17T20:31:37Z")
I did a web search and found [this page](http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu/user/scotts/Who_I_am/misc) with a quote from a PBS documentary of an Alabama woman in 1959 saying “I find my evidence for segregation in Genesis 9, where God sent the sons of Noah out over the earth”. The story of the Tower of Babel in Genesis 11 has probably also been used as a basis for segregation. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2000, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-reference-wanted/29710/10 "2000-08-17T20:53:39Z")
Quoth cmkeller: > [@](#): > > …so I don’t think that that extrapolation makes much sense. Chaim, you don’t really expect bigots to make sense, do you? You’re giving them too much credit. ---
**Author:** ![DAVEW0071](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e19b73/32.png) [@DAVEW0071](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DAVEW0071)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2000, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-reference-wanted/29710/11 "2000-08-17T23:05:28Z")
You beat me to it, **Chronos**. That’s exactly what I was thinking when I read Chaim’s post. ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2000, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-reference-wanted/29710/12 "2000-08-18T00:49:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cmkeller \* > > Well, amongst the sons of Ham were Mitzrayim, which is known to be the biblical name of Egypt, and and Cush, which is known to be the biblical name for Ethiopia \*\* Hence the words **Hamitic** to describe some North-African languages and **Cushitic** to describe various languages of Ethiopia, Somalia, and Kenya. Poor Mitzrayim didn’t get jack named for him. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2000, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-reference-wanted/29710/13 "2000-08-18T12:52:32Z")
Arabic is closely related to Hebrew, which is (I presume, I don’t know much Arabic) why Misr (Arabic name for Egypt) and Mitzrayim (Hebrew name for Egypt) are so similar. The Hebrew root (Tz-R) actually means narrows or straits, constricted; and it was fairly natural to associate such a word with Egypt, a narrow land along the River Nile. The Yiddish word Tsooris comes from this Hebrew root as well; tsooris means troubles, but the etymology is from being restricted or constrained. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2000, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-reference-wanted/29710/14 "2000-08-18T14:03:49Z")
[Daisy the Beagle, reading over my shoulder, gives an admiring ‘woof’ at the genuine scholarship displayed by others in this thread] 🙂 WTG, guys!