# Bible thumper responds to video by atheist girl **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 1, 2011, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-thumper-responds-to-video-by-atheist-girl/572999 "2011-03-01T00:47:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![MuleSkinner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/779978/32.png) [@MuleSkinner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MuleSkinner)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-thumper-responds-to-video-by-atheist-girl/572999/1 "2011-03-01T00:47:16Z")
I sent the following YouTube video to a friend: https://www.youtube.com/embed/LM6T5JazUuo?feature=oembed&wmode=opaque She sent it to her brother who responded by sending her back a rebuttal. I would love for some of you to help me with a response since I’m not knowledgeable about some of the claims the brother made, especially what the Bible really says about slavery. I believe this is the best forum for this thread as it involves witnessing and claims that may be debated. Her response to me: > [@](#): > > hey [my name]..before you read this…please open your mind. After watching the video you sent with that young girl quoting the bible and discrediting it, I sent it to my brother to get his opinion. My bro is a bit of a bible expert since he has studied it well and read the entire book, cover to cover, several times. he is also a very spiritual person with strong faith in God. So, please read his response and try to be open to his intellectual explanation,I just thought you should here the opinion of someone who really knows what he’s talking about when it comes to the bible. I don’t expect that John’s explanation will influence you or change your beliefs, but I did think that, since you are an intellectual, reasonable person yourself, you should here both sides of the story on these issues. Let me know what you think. His response: > [@](#): > > This video is a CLASSIC example of what happens when someone takes a passage out of the bible and reads it OUT OF CONTEXT. It’s like the idiots who want to burn Mark Twain’s classics Tom Sawyer and Huckelberry Finn because they use the word “nigger.” What those morons fail to do is read the context that Twain was making a social commentary and actually making fun of the southern practice of treating men like property. > > The first example this IGNORANT smart ass snipe cites regarding slavery is being read completely out of context. In the old testament days, slavery was not the kind of slavery we think of today with the blacks in the south. It was a socially acceptable way to work off debts and was more akin to indentured servitude. When they speak of women as slaves it has to be understood in the social context of the day and times. Back then, if a father owed a debt and could not pay he could sell himself and his family in slavery to work off the debt. This was actually an act of kindness because if he didn’t his wife and daughters would literally starve to death since women were not permitted to work for money and were completely dependant on the males in their family for sustenance and protection. If daddy is away working off a debt and his young daughters are too young to be given in marriage, slavery was a way to make sure they had food, clothing and protection while daddy was paying off the debt. > > NEVER EVER READ ANYTHING OUT OF CONTEXT AND ASSUME THAT ONE SENTENCE IN A LARGE BOOK LIKE THE BIBLE CAN BE UNDERSTOOD WITHOUT CONSIDERING 1. THE DATE AND TIMES BEING DISCUSSED 2. THE SOCIAL AND POLITICAL ENVIRONMENT OF THAT TIME 3. WHO THE AUTHOR IS AND 4. WHO THE INTENDED AUDIENCE/READER IS. > > The first 5 books of the old testament are called the Pentatuch and are believed to have been written by Moses during the 40 years the Jews wandered in the desert. Several of the books like Leviticus and Numbers are law books, like a modern statute book, describing what is socially and morally permissible. This was needed to keep the 2 million Jews who were living in the desert from living in chaos and anarchy. > > The second example this moronic cherub cites in about a conversation King David had with the prophet Nathan when Nathan confronted and convicted David of adultery for sleeping with Bathsheba who was another man’s wife, getting her pregnant and then having the man killed in battle to cover up his crimes. The part she references is completely taken out of context. The whole point of that story is to convict David of sin not to condone it. > > The last part she cites from the book of Mathew where she talks about God setting father, mother, son etc against eachother is actually a discussion by Jesus where he talks about how his followers will be persecuted and even killed (“take up their crosses and follow him”) for their beliefs and that fathers will turn over their sons etc. to be killed for believing in Jesus. It is said that this idiot girl conveniently failed to read the paragraph directly before that where Jesus talks about the love of God and says “as for you, every hair of your head has been counted (he’s talking about all who believe in him), so do not be afraid of anything…WHoever acknowledges me before men I will acknowledge before my Father in Heaven.” > > He is talking about the unending love of God. > > This video is actually a classic tool used by atheists to misdirect and confuse people. Remember, the bible says Satan is the fathe of lies and it also calls anyone who fails to believe the Word of God a “fool.” This girl, like all atheists is a fool. > > THIS IS WHY YOU HAVE TO, HAVE TO, HAVE TO READ THE BIBLE FOR YOURSELF. If you do not read the bible, which is the word of God and God’s instruction manual for living, how do you expect to call yourself a follower of Christ. Without knowledge of the bible and what it says, you will never be able to understand what Christianity is or what Jesus did for us. I can help explain things but you have to read it for yourself. > > Also, a final note to remember, ( and you must trust me on this): anyone or anything that tries to undermine the credibility of God, Jesus or the bible is OF SATAN. At the risk of sounding like a religious fanatic, please remember I have read the ENTIRE bible 6 times now from cover to cover. I KNOW WHAT IT SAYS AND WHAT IT DOESN’T SAY. I know for a fact THE BIBLE IS THE WORD OF THE ONE, TRUE GOD. Anyone or anything that tries to persuade you otherwise is trying to rob you of the gift of salvation that Jesus offers for believing in him. It is also trying to make Jesus sacrifice irrelevant. I promise you, if you read the bible FOR YOURSELF and take the time to research the social, political and religious history and context for each of the books in the Old and New testament, you will absolutely come away with the belief and knowledge that Jesus is God, he died for our sins and rose from the dead. he paid the fine for the sins we have committed and that anyone who does not believe in Jesus and make him their Lord and Savior will spend eternity in what the bible calls “the lake of fire” a.k.a. Hell. > > There is no gray and no middle ground. It is an all or nothing proposition. God gives each of us free choice and if someone goes to hell it is becaues the have CHOSEN to seperate themself from God and God is a loving God and will not force himself on us, so he will allow us to live as we have chosen to live, either believing in Jesus and being given the free gift of eternal life or not believing in Jesus and being given the punishment for our sins, which is eternal punishment. > > I really feel sorry for this girl. She is obviously the child of atheists. I will pray for her. In the meantime, I encourage you to read the bible for yourself. It will be way better for your soul than anything you might watch on You Tube. The bible is the Word of God. I believe it with every fiber of my being. If you want to know God, seek him in the bible and through prayer. Ask Jesus to help you and send the Holy Spirit to give you the gift of understanding of what you are reading and if you don’t understand something, ask someone, or get a 'Study" bible which has explanatory paragraphs at the bottom of the page that will explain what the text means. Jesus is God. IF anyone tells you otherwise they are ignorant, misinformed or worse, being used by the devil to steal your soul. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-thumper-responds-to-video-by-atheist-girl/572999/2 "2011-03-01T00:53:33Z")
Jesus wept. Why can’t fanatics on both sides just live and let live? ---
**Author:** ![MrTuffPaws](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f475e1/32.png) [@MrTuffPaws](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrTuffPaws)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-thumper-responds-to-video-by-atheist-girl/572999/3 "2011-03-01T00:57:29Z")
His retort only applies to male Israelite slaves who were released after 6 years of service. Foreign slaves where considered personal property and where passed from father to son just like anything else. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-thumper-responds-to-video-by-atheist-girl/572999/4 "2011-03-01T01:10:51Z")
I can totally tell that your friend’s “bro” is indeed “a very spiritual person with a strong faith in God” by the way he repeatedly insults a very young girl, calling her a “moronic cherub” and an “IGNORANT smart ass snipe.” He’s just brimming with Christian love! In any event there’s really nothing to refute. The Bible was indeed written in a specific historical context. The OT has laws appropriate for a bronze age tribe in a time of slavery and near constant war. What is baffling is why fundamentalists like your friends brother take the whole thing as a morality appropriate for modern society. (Not all Christians are like bro.) As far as the last few paragraphs, all bro is doing is asserting fundamentalist dogma. I’m sure he believes it, but he doesn’t give any reason why you, me, or anyone else should. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-thumper-responds-to-video-by-atheist-girl/572999/5 "2011-03-01T01:13:12Z")
> [@MrTuffPaws](#): > > His retort only applies to male Israelite slaves who were released after 6 years of service. Foreign slaves where considered personal property and where passed from father to son just like anything else. Yes. He should compare the punishment for harming Israeli slaves vs foreign slaves. In colonial America white people sometimes went into indentured servitude, a kind of temporary slavery until a debt was worked off or money earned. Not nearly the same thing as black slavery. BTW, there is absolutely no evidence that 3 million - or any - Hebrews wandered around the desert. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-thumper-responds-to-video-by-atheist-girl/572999/6 "2011-03-01T01:14:10Z")
> [@](#): > > Also, a final note to remember, ( and you must trust me on this): anyone or anything that tries to undermine the credibility of God, Jesus or the bible is OF SATAN. At the risk of sounding like a religious fanatic.. Too late! ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-thumper-responds-to-video-by-atheist-girl/572999/7 "2011-03-01T01:16:00Z")
That guy is a fucking idiot. It doesn’t actually contain much of any substance, and it’s hard to know exactly what he’s trying to rebut without seeing the youtube video, but taking a few points: The Bible does endorse slavery as long as the slave isn’t a Jew. ndentured servitude was one form of slavery, but not the only one. The status and conditions of slaves in the ancient world ran a wide gamut from some slaves who were treated very well, and held trusted, honored positions in household to simple chattel laborors and sex slaves. The Bible treats them as property, and treats the murder of other people’s slaves as property crimes. Paul tells slaves to “obey their masters.” Some passages of the OT have God ordering the Israelites to take conquered women as sex slaves. The Bible contains no condemnation of slavery or recognition of any immorality to it. Most of it was involuntary, despite this guy’s attempt to gloss it as some sort of summer job. I don’t know what he was responding to when mentioning Moses, but it’s true there is a fundy tradition that Moses wrote the Torah. It’s completely spurious, though. I suppose this is the passage he’s talking about from Matthew: _"Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it. (Mt. 10:34-39)_ There’s also this parallel passage in Luke: _Now there went with him great multitudes: and he turned, and said unto them, “If any man cometh unto me, and hateth not his own father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.” (Lk. 14:25-26)_ What it means is a matter of interpretation and open debate, but it’s hard to support this guy saying it’s merely a warning about persecution when Jesus is quoted as say, _anyone_ whoes not _hate_ father, nother, siblings wife and kids can’t be his disciple. This guy seems like a very bitter and hostile individual. the name calling and warnings about Satan do not really merit any response and kind of speak for themselves as to his credibility (as does his liberal use of all-caps). ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-thumper-responds-to-video-by-atheist-girl/572999/8 "2011-03-01T01:16:21Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Jesus wept. Why can’t fanatics on both sides just live and let live? Well they would _hardly_ be fanatics if they did that. They’d be falling down on the job! ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-thumper-responds-to-video-by-atheist-girl/572999/9 "2011-03-01T01:18:02Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Jesus wept. Why can’t fanatics on both sides just live and let live? It’s disngenuous to try to pretend there’s any kind of symmetry in “fanaticism” when it comes to religious believers vs. non-believers. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-thumper-responds-to-video-by-atheist-girl/572999/10 "2011-03-01T01:18:47Z")
His response is true on at least one count. David bedding Bethsheba is definitely a story intended to condemn David’s actions and point out the immorality of them. In that story God sent Nathan to show David the error of his ways. The girl’s point seems to be that the book isn’t appropriate for children. Well, that’s just a matter of opinion however most stories and parables from more than a hundred years ago are far harsher in language and content than most modern day children’s stories. People today are very hypersensitive to what children are exposed to and not exposed to. Sex and violence were extremely common parts of life and not something children would have been isolated from prior to the modern world. The religious guy is fucking insane if he thinks there were “two million Jews” wandering around the desert. There is no realistic way that many Jews were around at that point. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-thumper-responds-to-video-by-atheist-girl/572999/11 "2011-03-01T01:30:14Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > It’s disngenuous to try to pretend there’s any kind of symmetry in “fanaticism” when it comes to religious believers vs. non-believers. Bullshit. Girl makes a “Hey Everybody look at me, I’m an ATHEIST (lookatme, lookatme, lookatme I r edgy n kewl n stuff” video. Posts it to youtube with all the sincerity of the oh so self righteousness of youth. Someone else responds with more drivel, from the opposite side of the spectrum. Same degree of obnoxious bullshit. May both of them die in fires (provided that neither posts here, of course). If both are or become posters here, then I condemn them equally to the maximum extent allowed by board rules. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-thumper-responds-to-video-by-atheist-girl/572999/12 "2011-03-01T01:31:59Z")
Like I said, totally disingenuous. There is absolutely no comparison either between the video, and the vitriolic, butthurt, spittle-flecked response or between believers and non-believers in general. The disparity in the sheer number of tards on one side vs. the other is beyond any reasonable comparison. Interesting that you call a young girl “fanatic” for saying that the Bible is not a good book for children, and then declare that she should be burned to death for saying that. You should probably build yourself a time machine and set sail for the Inquisition. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-thumper-responds-to-video-by-atheist-girl/572999/13 "2011-03-01T01:40:18Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Like I said, totally disingenuous. There is absolutely no comparison either between the video, and the vitriolic, butthurt, spittle-flecked response or between believers and non-believers in general. The disparity in the sheer number of tards on one side vs. the other is beyond any reasonable comparison. > > Interesting that you call a young girl “fanatic” for saying that the Bible is not a good book for children, and then declare that she should be burned to death. Your side is perfect and can do no wrong. Other side has no redeeming qualities whatsoever. Yawn. I’ve seen this movie before… And way to overlook that I said BOTH the girl and the responder should die in a fire. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-thumper-responds-to-video-by-atheist-girl/572999/14 "2011-03-01T01:47:52Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Your side is perfect and can do no wrong. Other side has no redeeming qualities whatsoever. This is bullshit. I am no religion basher. I sennd my kids to a Catholic schhool, for fuck’s sake. > [@](#): > > Yawn. I’ve seen this movie before… Cite? > [@](#): > > And way to overlook that I said BOTH the girl and the responder should die in a fire. Neither deserves to be burned to death, but equating the “fanaticism” of both statements is disingenuous and false. The girl was not name-calling and accusing people of being “from Satan.” Pointing out that the Bible contains some pretty sketchy material for kids is not “fanatcism.” Saying that anyone who questions the literal truth of the Bible is in thrall to Satan IS a fanatic. The equivalency is bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-thumper-responds-to-video-by-atheist-girl/572999/15 "2011-03-01T01:50:38Z")
[QUOTE=Voyager] In colonial America white people sometimes went into indentured servitude, a kind of temporary slavery until a debt was worked off or money earned. Not nearly the same thing as black slavery. [/QUOTE] Unlike black slavery there was an end in sight, but until it arrived indentured servants often had to deal with the same forms of abuse (physical and sexual) from their masters. As with slavery there were good masters and bad ones- some indentured servants even married into the families of their master- but it wasn’t uncommon for the indentured not to survive the bad masters in both body and spirit. If indentured servants ran away and were caught they could be punished by flogging, would almost certainly have the term of their indenture extended, their master could be relieved of his responsibility to provide clothing/money/land/whatever was contracted for when the indenture was up, and branding was not unheard of (especially for repeat offenders). There was generally little sympathy or credence paid if they claimed their master beat or raped them as it was seen as plea for leniency. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-thumper-responds-to-video-by-atheist-girl/572999/16 "2011-03-01T02:13:40Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I don’t know what he was responding to when mentioning Moses, but it’s true there is a fundy tradition that Moses wrote the Torah. It’s completely spurious, though. Hardly a fundy tradition. That’s what I learned in Hebrew School, and my temple wasn’t even close to being fundamentalist in any sense. For instance, there was not the slightest attempt to claim that the pre-Abram part of Genesis actually happened. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-thumper-responds-to-video-by-atheist-girl/572999/17 "2011-03-01T02:18:36Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Hardly a fundy tradition. That’s what I learned in Hebrew School, and my temple wasn’t even close to being fundamentalist in any sense. For instance, there was not the slightest attempt to claim that the pre-Abram part of Genesis actually happened. I would say that teaching Mosaic authorship of the Torah is still pretty fundy, but whatever. It’s a tradition that’s not held to by any serioous scholarship. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-thumper-responds-to-video-by-atheist-girl/572999/18 "2011-03-01T02:48:21Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I would say that teaching Mosaic authorship of the Torah is still pretty fundy, but whatever. It’s a tradition that’s not held to by any serioous scholarship. Yeah, this was where I stopped reading. In one sentence he proves that he doesn’t actually know much of anything about the actual history of the Bible or about Biblical scholarship, so it was pretty obvious that the rest would be the usual literalist talking points. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-thumper-responds-to-video-by-atheist-girl/572999/19 "2011-03-01T02:49:58Z")
Even with today’s technology, would it be remotely possible for 2 million nomads to live in the deserts between Egypt and Israel for 40 years without continually importing food and potable water? ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-thumper-responds-to-video-by-atheist-girl/572999/20 "2011-03-01T02:50:32Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Yeah, this was where I stopped reading. In one sentence he proves that he doesn’t actually know much of anything about the actual history of the Bible or about Biblical scholarship, so it was pretty obvious that the rest would be the usual literalist talking points. You stopped reading at the end of the thread? Would you have liked to continue? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-thumper-responds-to-video-by-atheist-girl/572999.md?page=2)