# Bible verses: 2 Kings 2:23-24; Numbers 5:11-31 **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 25, 2013, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-verses-2-kings-2-23-24-numbers-5-11-31/664473 "2013-07-25T12:51:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-verses-2-kings-2-23-24-numbers-5-11-31/664473/261 "2013-08-02T06:40:43Z")
> [@Alan\_Smithee](#): > > …so that we understand the context of things theists come up and quote at us when we’re manning our booth at the Thursday Farmer’s Market in San Luis Obispo. (Mention this post, and I’ll buy you a drink!) and can argue them better. When you argue the way you do, without understanding the Bible or Christian beliefs, you do more good for the other side than for us. But you can learn. Hear hear. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-verses-2-kings-2-23-24-numbers-5-11-31/664473/262 "2013-08-02T06:44:18Z")
> [@Alan\_Smithee](#): > > “Jesus’ writing”? Really? Are you that ignorant of the subject? No Christian attributes _any_ writings to Jesus whatsoever, except possibly in the sense of divine inspiration, which they would apply equally to Paul’s writings. And how can you argue that Paul contradicts Jesus when Jesus (especially in Luke) is a mouthpiece for Pauline Christians? To clarify, Paul certainly contradicts _some_ of what Jesus apparently says, but what you have is different depictions of Jesus saying things that contradict each other, and Paul saying (indirectly) which one is correct and why the other one doesn’t mean what it says. What really happened in most cases is either the non-Pauline sayings of Jesus came first and the Pauline versions were a later attempt to bring Jesus in line with Paul, or else Paul himself came first and the non-Pauline versions were an attempt to undermine Paul. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-verses-2-kings-2-23-24-numbers-5-11-31/664473/263 "2013-08-02T06:46:41Z")
> [@Alan\_Smithee](#): > > That’s like saying, “The Constitution says something about the government? Tell me where.” Seriously, _the entire book_ is about this issue. You can’t possibly have read it and not know this. No I read Roman’s. My favorite part was when Paul said Pharaoh was a tool so that he could show his power and how he arbitrarily made some people into better pots than others and blamed the bad pots for being how they turned out. Give me one example of an issue you think it don’t get. > [@](#): > > You should have read for comprehension the first time. You shouldn’t have said Jesus responded to Paul because Jesus was dead before Paul wrote anything on the subject. > [@](#): > > That’s because Christians in this instance are actually correct about what a major doctrine and key theme of their belief system is. And they contradict Jesus too. > [@](#): > > “Jesus’ writing”? Really? Are you that ignorant of the subject? No Christian attributes _any_ writings to Jesus whatsoever, except possibly in the sense of divine inspiration, which they would apply equally to Paul’s writings. And how can you argue that Paul contradicts Jesus when Jesus (especially in Luke) is a mouthpiece for Pauline Christians? Would you prefer if I said “Jesus’ words”? Are you really claiming that “no Christian” attributes them words written in red to Jesus? Are you that ignorant with regards to what Christians actually think? Maybe you need to invite some real Christians to your atheist Bible study. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-verses-2-kings-2-23-24-numbers-5-11-31/664473/264 "2013-08-02T06:52:39Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > I’m glad to hear this. (And though I know you think it’s all bullshit-albeit-interesting-bullshit, I hope that I don’t strike you as _merely_ a bullshitter.) Not at all! You strike me as the kind of Christian I used to wish I could be! I’d love to discuss why I ultimately found that kind of liberal Christianity untenable, at least for me (and not at all for the reasons **Kable** proposes!) and find out why you think it’s ultimately workable. But not in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![PBear42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecccb3/32.png) [@PBear42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PBear42)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-verses-2-kings-2-23-24-numbers-5-11-31/664473/265 "2013-08-02T06:57:31Z")
**Kable** , if you won’t address Acts, chapter 15, you’re not really discussing the topic. It’s fatal to your position. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-verses-2-kings-2-23-24-numbers-5-11-31/664473/266 "2013-08-02T07:05:13Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > No I read Roman’s. My favorite part was when Paul said Pharaoh was a tool so that he could show his power and how he arbitrarily made some people into better pots than others and blamed the bad pots for being how they turned out. Give me one example of an issue you think it don’t get. I believe you might have skimmed the text looking for ammunition, but there is no way you read it with any attempt whatsoever to understand it. The topic we’re discussing? The role of the law in Christian life? _That’s_ the sole major topic of the book. As I said, you couldn’t possibly have read and understood it and not know that. > [@](#): > > You shouldn’t have said Jesus responded to Paul because Jesus was dead before Paul wrote anything on the subject. Again, I pointed out the explanation of what I meant, which was the entire previous paragraph. I don’t know how I could have been clearer without coming across as condescending. If that’s my failure, so be it. > [@](#): > > And they contradict Jesus too. I’ve already addressed why this is wrong (or at least incomplete). > [@](#): > > Would you prefer if I said “Jesus’ words”? Are you really claiming that “no Christian” attributes them words written in red to Jesus? Are you that ignorant with regards to what Christians actually think? Maybe you need to invite some real Christians to your atheist Bible study. The topic being discussed here is whether Jesus’ words trump Paul’s. No Christian thinks that Jesus actually wrote down anything he said. The ones who believe he actually said all the things reported in the Gospels only believe that because they believe the Gospels were inspired by God same as Paul was. So Paul’s words have exactly as much authority as the reports of what Jesus said. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-verses-2-kings-2-23-24-numbers-5-11-31/664473/267 "2013-08-02T07:26:32Z")
> [@Alan\_Smithee](#): > > I believe you might have skimmed the text looking for ammunition, but there is no way you read it with any attempt whatsoever to understand it. The topic we’re discussing? The role of the law in Christian life? _That’s_ the sole major topic of the book. As I said, you couldn’t possibly have read and understood it and not know that. OK well, I already said I understood that Paul said we were free of the law, except for the parts he said we still had to follow. Anything else I missed? > [@](#): > > Again, I pointed out the explanation of what I meant, which was the entire previous paragraph. I don’t know how I could have been clearer without coming across as condescending. If that’s my failure, so be it. Clearly a dead man, can’t respond to a live one. You should have said “Jesus’ biographers” or something. > [@](#): > > I’ve already addressed why this is wrong (or at least incomplete). I’ll buy that it’s a bit incomplete, but not wrong. > [@](#): > > The topic being discussed here is whether Jesus’ words trump Paul’s. No Christian thinks that Jesus actually wrote down anything he said. The ones who believe he actually said all the things reported in the Gospels only believe that because they believe the Gospels were inspired by God same as Paul was. I don’t know many Christian’s who will articulate that they don’t believe Jesus said a particular thing, not even the liberals. They pretty much just try to excuse why such and such things don’t really count, just like they did in this thread regarding Matthew 5:18. > [@](#): > > So Paul’s words have exactly as much authority as the reports of what Jesus said. Not in practice. If I were to mention how sexist Paul was, a number of Christians would say that’s Paul, not Jesus, and they would point out Bible verses where Paul give’s his own opinion on matters rather than God’s, like 1 Corinthians 7. Are you that ignorant with regards to Corinthians? Maybe you just skimmed it. ---
**Author:** ![PBear42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecccb3/32.png) [@PBear42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PBear42)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-verses-2-kings-2-23-24-numbers-5-11-31/664473/268 "2013-08-02T07:41:26Z")
By the way, **Kable** , to amplify. How to reconcile the Gospels with each other is a complex topic over which reasonable Christians can and do disagree. How to reconcile the Gospels with Paul’s letters is a complex topic over which reasonable Christians can and do disagree. What no mainstream Christian I’ve ever met or read disputes is that Acts, chapter 15 is an authoritative pronouncement on whether Christians (or, at least, Gentile Christians) are obliged to follow Jewish law. The answer is “no,” with a few exceptions previously noted. Unless you address this passage, your position is full of … stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-verses-2-kings-2-23-24-numbers-5-11-31/664473/269 "2013-08-02T08:03:43Z")
> [@PBear42](#): > > By the way, **Kable** , to amplify. How to reconcile the Gospels with each other is a complex topic over which reasonable Christians can and do disagree. The Gospels do contradict each other sometimes. They are irreconcilable without introducing error. > [@](#): > > How to reconcile the Gospels with Paul’s letters is a complex topic over which reasonable Christians can and do disagree. Jesus does contradict Paul sometimes. They are irreconciliable without introducing error. You want to place that error with Paul or Jesus? > [@](#): > > What no mainstream Christian I’ve ever met or read disputes is that Acts, chapter 15 is an authoritative pronouncement on whether Christians (or, at least, Gentile Christians) are obliged to follow Jewish law. The answer is “no,” with a few exceptions previously noted. Unless you address this passage, your position is full of … stuff. I already addressed this passage. In Acts 15 Paul contradicts Jesus. I said from the start that I was aware that most Christians side with Paul. You however, still have not answered whether you think Matthew or the other gospels actually quote Jesus? That was not a rhetorical question. Do they? ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-verses-2-kings-2-23-24-numbers-5-11-31/664473/270 "2013-08-02T08:09:43Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > OK well, I already said I understood that Paul said we were free of the law, except for the parts he said we still had to follow. Anything else I missed? That’s only one point, rather poorly stated, that he made in his detailed explication of the roles the Law plays in Christianity and his multiple lengthy and thorough (though ultimately unsuccessful, IMO) arguments supporting it. Are you honestly asking me to tell you all of Romans? Seriously, if you don’t know this stuff, you’re not qualified to debate this topic. > [@](#): > > Clearly a dead man, can’t respond to a live one. You should have said “Jesus’ biographers” or something. Yes, I thought it was clear, too; however you apparently needed me to spell it out. I admit I erred in overestimating your ability to understand, and I apologize. I should, in fact, have been clearer. > [@](#): > > I’ll buy that it’s a bit incomplete, but not wrong. Of course you don’t buy that you’re wrong. Have you ever? > [@](#): > > I don’t know many Christian’s who will articulate that they don’t believe Jesus said a particular thing, not even the liberals. They pretty much just try to excuse why such and such things don’t really count, just like they did in this thread regarding Matthew 5:18. I’ve seen Christians on this board tell you they don’t believe Jesus said some of the things in the Bible. And have you heard of the Jesus Seminar? Again, this is basic stuff you should be familiar with if you want to debate this seriously. (Which you’ve shown you don’t.) > [@](#): > > Not in practice. If I were to mention how sexist Paul was, a number of Christians would say that’s Paul, not Jesus, and they would point out Bible verses where Paul give’s his own opinion on matters rather than God’s, like 1 Corinthians 7. Are you that ignorant with regards to Corinthians? Maybe you just skimmed it. Your snark is unwarranted. You’ve basically admitted to having a less than cursory understanding of the text by asking me to explain very simple things about it that would be perfectly obvious to anyone who read the New Testament. You’ve in no way shown that I’m ignorant about the Bible or even substantially challenged my reading of it. I Corinthians 7 is an embarrassment to inerrantists, who would be unlikely to bring it up and would simply support Paul’s sexism. (Seriously, do you know any fundamentalists? They’re not opposed to sexism!) Liberals, OTOH, would simply deny that Paul actually wrote the sexist bits or claim that the Bible isn’t divinely inspired (in which case they would likely affirm that Jesus did not necessarily say everything reported of him). There are, of course, plenty of unstudied members of liberal churches who might simply disparage Paul relative to Jesus, but they’re not going to be quoting I Corinthians at you, are they? ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-verses-2-kings-2-23-24-numbers-5-11-31/664473/271 "2013-08-02T08:25:59Z")
> [@Alan\_Smithee](#): > > That’s only one point, rather poorly stated, that he made in his detailed explication of the roles the Law plays in Christianity and his multiple lengthy and thorough (though ultimately unsuccessful, IMO) arguments supporting it. Are you honestly asking me to tell you all of Romans? Seriously, if you don’t know this stuff, you’re not qualified to debate this topic. I just asked you for one example. Seriously, if you don’t have one you probably aren’t qualified to debate this topic. > [@](#): > > Yes, I thought it was clear, too; however you apparently needed me to spell it out. I admit I erred in overestimating your ability to understand, and I apologize. I should, in fact, have been clearer. You made a statement that a dead man could respond to a live one. That’s funny. > [@](#): > > Of course you don’t buy that you’re wrong. Have you ever? And you don’t have to buy that you are as wrong as you were since you backpedaled. > [@](#): > > I’ve seen Christians on this board tell you they don’t believe Jesus said some of the things in the Bible. And have you heard of the Jesus Seminar? Again, this is basic stuff you should be familiar with if you want to debate this seriously. (Which you’ve shown you don’t.) Are you referring to that “Christian” who said he was really an atheist? > [@](#): > > Your snark is unwarranted. My snark reflects your snark. You should have been able to tell. > [@](#): > > You’ve basically admitted to having a less than cursory understanding of the text by asking me to explain very simple things about it that would be perfectly obvious to anyone who read the New Testament. You’ve in no way shown that I’m ignorant about the Bible or even substantially challenged my reading of it. I Corinthians 7 is an embarrassment to inerrantists, who would be unlikely to bring it up and would simply support Paul’s sexism. (Seriously, do you know any fundamentalists? It was a fundamentalist that brought that verse to my attention. I’ve noticed they don’t really get embarrassed by much, and they hardly claim the Bible is inerrant, mostly today they claim that only the autographs were. Liberals and fundamentalists don’t fit as neatly as you think into their respective camps. Seriously, do you have any Christian friends? > [@](#): > > Liberals, OTOH, would simply deny that Paul actually wrote the sexist bits or claim that the Bible isn’t divinely inspired (in which case they would likely affirm that Jesus did not necessarily say everything reported of him). Liberals think Paul didn’t write the sexist parts? Who do they think wrote it then? > [@](#): > > There are, of course, plenty of unstudied members of liberal churches who might simply disparage Paul relative to Jesus, but they’re not going to be quoting I Corinthians at you, are they? Obviously Alan, according to Christianity, Jesus was God, Paul wasn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-verses-2-kings-2-23-24-numbers-5-11-31/664473/272 "2013-08-02T08:32:02Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > I just asked you for one example. Seriously, if you don’t have one you probably aren’t qualified to debate this topic. > You made a statement that a dead man could respond to a live one. That’s funny. > And you don’t have to buy that you are as wrong as you were since you backpedaled. > Are you referring to that “Christian” who said he was really an atheist? > My snark reflects your snark. You should have been able to tell. > It was a fundamentalist that brought that verse to my attention. I’ve noticed they don’t really get embarrassed by much, and they hardly claim the Bible is inerrant, mostly today they claim that only the autographs were. Liberals and fundamentalists don’t fit as neatly as you think into their respective camps. Seriously, do you have any Christian friends? > Liberals think Paul didn’t write the sexist parts? Who do they think wrote it then? > Obviously Alan, according to Christianity, Jesus was God, Paul wasn’t. I’ve presented my case and you’ve . . . well, I guess you’ve presented yours. Unless you have anything to add, or anyone else thinks I’ve left a point unexplained, I’m satisfied to let this one go. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-verses-2-kings-2-23-24-numbers-5-11-31/664473/273 "2013-08-02T08:35:15Z")
> [@Alan\_Smithee](#): > > I’ve presented my case and you’ve . . . well, I guess you’ve presented yours. Unless you have anything to add, or anyone else thinks I’ve left a point unexplained, I’m satisfied to let this one go. Yeah, well, I guess you think you presented your case. I’ll let you go. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-verses-2-kings-2-23-24-numbers-5-11-31/664473/274 "2013-08-02T09:42:02Z")
Kable, as one atheist to another, do you seriously not realize what a complete strawman you’re making here? You’ve spent the last several pages constructing a portrayal of “Christianity” that clearly doesn’t represent what the Christians in this thread believe, and you’re yelling at them not about what they do believe, but for not believing what you’ve decided that they’re obligated to. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-verses-2-kings-2-23-24-numbers-5-11-31/664473/275 "2013-08-02T11:53:08Z")
> [@Alan\_Smithee](#): > > True, but I’m not sure how that relates to what I said. Sorry, I should have quoted Skammer. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-verses-2-kings-2-23-24-numbers-5-11-31/664473/276 "2013-08-02T11:58:11Z")
> [@PBear42](#): > > You’re welcome. > > Except that, in verse 28, he relents and grants the request. (Sorry if the point of the post was to see whether **Kable** knew that.) > > It would be more accurate to say Paul contradicts Matthew. The latter claims to quote Jesus; the former claims divine inspiration. Besides, Matthew is ambiguous. But, more simply, the reason (most) Christians don’t regard themselves as bound by the Law (except in a few particulars) is Acts, [chapter 15](http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts+15&version=NIV). That’s an unambiguous passage and just as much a part of the canon as Matthew. Indeed, taking the canon as a whole, the mainstream Christian view is amply supported as a fair interpretation of their own scriptures. Indeed he did help heal her child, but that didn’t necessary mean he came to save her soul! ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-verses-2-kings-2-23-24-numbers-5-11-31/664473/277 "2013-08-02T12:01:15Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > Liberals think Paul didn’t write the sexist parts? Who do they think wrote it then? Holy Christ. [Read](http://www.amazon.com/Who-Wrote-New-Testament-Christian/dp/0060655186) [a](http://www.amazon.com/Canon-New-Testament-Development-Significance/dp/0198269544/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1375444564&sr=1-3&keywords=bruce+metzger) [book](http://www.amazon.com/Search-Paul-Apostle-Opposed-Kingdom/dp/0060816163/ref=sr_1_6?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1375444700&sr=1-6&keywords=crossan) sometime. Basically, the problem here is, you don’t know anything about what you’re talking about. As I’ve said, you need to draw conclusions only where you have information. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-verses-2-kings-2-23-24-numbers-5-11-31/664473/278 "2013-08-02T12:05:02Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > OK well, I already said I understood that Paul said we were free of the law, except for the parts he said we still had to follow. Anything else I missed? > Clearly a dead man, can’t respond to a live one. You should have said “Jesus’ biographers” or something. > I’ll buy that it’s a bit incomplete, but not wrong. > I don’t know many Christian’s who will articulate that they don’t believe Jesus said a particular thing, not even the liberals. They pretty much just try to excuse why such and such things don’t really count, just like they did in this thread regarding Matthew 5:18. > Not in practice. If I were to mention how sexist Paul was, a number of Christians would say that’s Paul, not Jesus, and they would point out Bible verses where Paul give’s his own opinion on matters rather than God’s, like 1 Corinthians 7. Are you that ignorant with regards to Corinthians? Maybe you just skimmed it. To me, this sounds a lot like the differing views of Luther and Roman Pontiffs. Paul sounds like a reformer of the Jewish faith. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-verses-2-kings-2-23-24-numbers-5-11-31/664473/279 "2013-08-02T13:12:31Z")
I was going to chide Kable for a post way up on the page where he implies that Paul wrote Acts. I’d hate to blow his mind by telling him that Paul didn’t write a lot of his own epistles either. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-verses-2-kings-2-23-24-numbers-5-11-31/664473/280 "2013-08-02T13:16:37Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Kable, as one atheist to another, do you seriously not realize what a complete strawman you’re making here? You’ve spent the last several pages constructing a portrayal of “Christianity” that clearly doesn’t represent what the Christians in this thread believe, and you’re yelling at them not about what they do believe, but for not believing what you’ve decided that they’re obligated to. Yelling? Christians call themselves Christians because they are followers of Christ. I’m just pointing out that they aren’t doing that. Get it? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-verses-2-kings-2-23-24-numbers-5-11-31/664473.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bible-verses-2-kings-2-23-24-numbers-5-11-31/664473.md?page=15)