# Biblical inerrancy and literal interpretation; why? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 25, 2002, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-inerrancy-and-literal-interpretation-why/133824 "2002-10-25T11:10:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2002, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-inerrancy-and-literal-interpretation-why/133824/181 "2002-11-05T17:47:11Z")
King of Spain: Yes, in some forms of Buddhism dharma refers most specifically to the eight-fold path, but even in Buddhism this is not universal. Some Buddhists use the term to describe “elements of existence,” that is manifestations of ego or unenlightened consciousness. To simplify, it sort of means the human condition before nirvana, which may include any or all of the elements we have already discussed. It’s sort of a slippery term and it tends to acquire differing perceptions or points of emphasis depending on which particular school of Hindu or Buddhist thought is employing it. This whole discussion is wa-a-a-a-ay off topic, but I’d be more than happy to start a new thread about it. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2002, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-inerrancy-and-literal-interpretation-why/133824/182 "2002-11-05T17:54:29Z")
Diogenes Although I’m familiar with your disdain for Christianity, I’m wondering whether you will allow that a person may be both Buddhist and Christian. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2002, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-inerrancy-and-literal-interpretation-why/133824/183 "2002-11-05T18:03:19Z")
David B, I just read (again) where Satan took Jesus up to a high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world, which He could have if only He would worship satna. The author points out that on a round earth, Jesus couldn’t see **all** the kingdoms. Interesting. I’d never thought about verses being allegorical (is that the right word?) ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2002, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-inerrancy-and-literal-interpretation-why/133824/184 "2002-11-05T18:36:04Z")
Libertarian: I wouldn’t say I have a disdain for Christianity, per se, especially not the ethical aspects of it. I do object to the insistence on literal beliefs in all the miracles, resurrection, divinity of Christ, etc, but even these these do not arouse contempt for me. What I despise is the idea that Christianity is exclusively “true,” or that a belief in Christ-as-Saviour has either merit or virtue. Having said that, I don’t think that there is any inherent conflict between Christianity and a basic belief in Buddhism as it pertains to to the four noble truths, eight-fold path, etc. Buddhism does not require a committment to any specific supernatural or otherwordly beliefs nor does it forbid them. Therefore you can believe in the four noble truths, practice meditation, and still go to mass on sunday, receive communion, teach sunday school, etc. and never have a conflict in doctrine. In fact, I think the two systems could actually compliment each other. The mental disciplines of Buddhism could help one be a better Christian. The ethical ideology of Christianity, and even the devotional aspects, for that matter, could enhance and inform one’s journey on the eight-fold path. ---
**Author:** ![photopat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e95f7d/32.png) [@photopat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/photopat)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2002, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-inerrancy-and-literal-interpretation-why/133824/185 "2002-11-05T18:58:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by vanilla \* > \*\*David B, > I just read (again) where Satan took Jesus up to a high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world, which He could have if only He would worship satna. > > The author points out that on a round earth, Jesus couldn’t see **all** the kingdoms. > Interesting. > I’d never thought about verses being allegorical (is that the right word?) \*\* Just a guess, but I bet the literalist take would be that since Satan and Jesus are both mystical, they _could_ see all the kingdoms of the world, even if they were on the opposite side of the globe. Not a satisfying answer,but a predictable justification. ---
**Author:** ![lynn73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@lynn73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lynn73)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2002, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-inerrancy-and-literal-interpretation-why/133824/186 "2002-11-05T20:53:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by David B \* > \*\ ***His4ever** , this being a thread about biblical inerrancy, I’m confused as to why you have not responded to my question posted a few days ago. Specifically: > > OK, so you’re a complete literalist – you don’t see how that can mean anything other than what it says. Fine. > > Do you believe that we live on a flat earth? > > I gave you specific Biblical references. Why have you not answered? \*\* No I don’t believe the earth is flat. And I’m not a total literalist. I believe I pointed out to someone else that Scripture is interpreted for what it says unless the context obviously shows otherwise. There’s allegory, symbolism, etc. ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2002, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-inerrancy-and-literal-interpretation-why/133824/187 "2002-11-05T20:53:48Z")
Of course, even if a lilteralist were to use that particular excuse for that particular example, we still have the other ones I mentioned earlier… ---
**Author:** ![loinburger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/db5fbb/32.png) [@loinburger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/loinburger)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2002, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-inerrancy-and-literal-interpretation-why/133824/188 "2002-11-05T21:20:05Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by photopat \* > \*\* > Just a guess, but I bet the literalist take would be that since Satan and Jesus are both mystical, they could see all the kingdoms of the world, even if they were on the opposite side of the globe._\* That’s one possible justification, but it doesn’t explain why they had to climb a mountain to use their “mystic sight”. Of course, the predictable justification to such inexplicable behavior would probably be “God works in mysterious ways…” ---
**Author:** ![king\_of\_spain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7cd45c/32.png) [@king\_of\_spain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/king_of_spain)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2002, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-inerrancy-and-literal-interpretation-why/133824/189 "2002-11-05T21:21:18Z")
**H4e** , can you explain exactly what in the context shows otherwise in those passages that imply the Earth is flat? ---
**Author:** ![loinburger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/db5fbb/32.png) [@loinburger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/loinburger)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2002, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-inerrancy-and-literal-interpretation-why/133824/190 "2002-11-05T21:24:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by His4ever \* > \*\*No I don’t believe the earth is flat. And I’m not a total literalist. I believe I pointed out to someone else that Scripture is interpreted for what it says unless the context obviously shows otherwise. There’s allegory, symbolism, etc. \*\* How exactly would you inerrantly tell symbolism from literalism? If you’re fallible (i.e. human) and _cannot_ inerrantly interpret the Bible, then how would you justify treating the Bible as inerrant when your interpretations of the Bible are bound to be flawed in some way? ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2002, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-inerrancy-and-literal-interpretation-why/133824/191 "2002-11-05T22:34:08Z")
Forget symbolism, what about outright contradition? **His4ever** , how can one possibly believe in inerrancy in a document that contradicts itself? For example, Christ’s last words on the cross: Luke 23:46 KJV - “And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.” John 19:30 KJV - “When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.” ---
**Author:** ![lynn73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@lynn73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lynn73)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2002, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-inerrancy-and-literal-interpretation-why/133824/192 "2002-11-05T23:42:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Revtim \* > \*\*Forget symbolism, what about outright contradition? **His4ever** , how can one possibly believe in inerrancy in a document that contradicts itself? For example, Christ’s last words on the cross: > > Luke 23:46 KJV - “And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.” > > John 19:30 KJV - “When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.” \*\* Evidently Luke chose not to mention the vinegar. I think I’m pretty much done with this thread. This subject can be debated forever. You believe what you believe. Evidently, according to many, God was unable to see that we had a truthful document. I also think Satan just loves these debates and arguments over the word of God. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2002, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-inerrancy-and-literal-interpretation-why/133824/193 "2002-11-05T23:55:21Z")
Oh no you don’t. At the second most critical part of Christ’s ministry (the most being the resurrection), we have three directly contadictory accounts of Christ’s last words – I’m including Mark 15:34 in this. Christ was the Son of God, thus capable of anything men can imagine and an infinite amount more, but somehow I can’t picture a mortal body being capable of saying three things in two languages simultaneously yet having all three be intelligible enough that they can be recorded. Yes, this is getting dangerously close to “How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?”, but it is where Biblical literalism falls apart, at least as far as I’m concerned. My concern about Biblical literalism is that when a person is faced with contradictions like this, if they are told that Christians must believe the Bible is factually and literally true, they run the risk of having their faith fall apart. Their faith becomes like that of a house built upon sand, rather than one on a firm foundation. Respectfully, CJ ---
**Author:** ![king\_of\_spain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7cd45c/32.png) [@king\_of\_spain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/king_of_spain)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2002, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-inerrancy-and-literal-interpretation-why/133824/194 "2002-11-06T00:48:57Z")
**H4e**. Please. I’m asking as nicely as I can. We were just asking how you tell the difference between the parts of the Bible that you interpret literally, and the parts you interpret symbolically or allegorically - specifically, with reference to the verses which imply the Earth is flat. I’m really interested to hear what you have to say about this, because I don’t understand your position there; if I did understand it, maybe I’d agree. Can you please explain just that one thing? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2002, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-inerrancy-and-literal-interpretation-why/133824/195 "2002-11-06T01:00:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by His4ever \* > \*\*Evidently, according to many, God was unable to see that we had a truthful document. \*\*What if words on paper weren’t his priority? (having sent his spirit to guide us). > [@](#): > > \*\*I also think Satan just loves these debates and arguments over the word of God. \*\* Am I right in reading this as implying that God doesn’t like us asking awkward questions? ---
**Author:** ![lynn73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@lynn73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lynn73)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2002, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-inerrancy-and-literal-interpretation-why/133824/196 "2002-11-06T01:10:12Z")
I don’t know how to explain how I tell what is literal and what isn’'t. I can’t put it into words. The things I’m hearing here is that maybe we shouldn’t accept anything we think it says because how can we know how to interpret it. Prayer may help. Ask God what He means by a particular verse. I can’t find the verses you talked about the earth being flat, can’t locate your post and I need to get off the computer. Obviously it isn’t flat. So therefore there must be another way to interpret that scripture besides literal. I’ll let you guys fight it out. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2002, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-inerrancy-and-literal-interpretation-why/133824/197 "2002-11-06T01:37:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by His4ever \* > \*\* > Evidently Luke chose not to mention the vinegar. \*\* Actually, the contradiction is not the presence or non-presence of vinegar, but words of Christ being different in the two passages. Please read them again, and explain how either both are true, or somehow they are both NOT true and the bible is still somehow innerrant. Please, just open your mind to the most likely explanation, that the bible is the work of errant humans, perhaps inspired by God (or not). ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2002, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-inerrancy-and-literal-interpretation-why/133824/198 "2002-11-06T01:43:00Z")
> [@](#): > > _Posted by **His4Ever** :_ > Prayer may help. Ask God what He means by a particular verse. **Bingo!** I’m not trying to make you into a clone of me – I wouldn’t wish that on anyone – but your answer is _precisely_ what I do. There are things in the Bible which I don’t understand and which trouble me, St. Paul’s “women shall be silent in church” for openers. When I come across such things, I do pray and ask God what He means. He doesn’t always answer, and there are large parts of Revelation just for openers which I don’t understand and may never understand while I’m in this world. Quite frankly, I’m looking forward to the time when I can say, “Oh! So _that’s_ what that was all about!” to the One who created it. I believe that the Bible is the True Word of God and one of the foundations of my faith, although it is secondary to Christ’s having died and risen from the dead in atonement for our sins. I do not believe every word of it is literal, factual, inerrant truth. I also believe it reflects the spirit of the times it was written in, but that Christ’s ministry surpasses the spirit of those times. If nothing else, His treatment of women and Gentiles was downright radical. Being of mortal flesh, I can only have limited understanding, but God knows this and makes allowances. In the meantime, I can read, study, think, and pray. I also accept responsibility for my limited, fallible understanding, and realize that I may inadvertantly lead people astray. If I do, I accept the consequences of my actions, including my thoughts. In the meantime, I will continue to love the Lord, my God with all my heart, with all my soul, and with all my mind, and will continue to strive to love my neighbor as myself. On that note, shall we break a bit of bread and raise a glass of wine together, if only in virtual form? CJ ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2002, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-inerrancy-and-literal-interpretation-why/133824/199 "2002-11-06T01:59:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by His4ever \* > **Obviously it isn’t flat. So therefore there must be another way to interpret that scripture besides literal.** I agree wholeheartedly. Now if only we could persuade the Young-Earth creationists to adopt this very same methodology (albeit in relation to different verses and different obvious observations of the world about us)… ---
**Author:** ![king\_of\_spain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7cd45c/32.png) [@king\_of\_spain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/king_of_spain)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2002, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-inerrancy-and-literal-interpretation-why/133824/200 "2002-11-06T02:28:46Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by His4ever \* > \*\* I can’t find the verses you talked about the earth being flat, can’t locate your post and I need to get off the computer. Obviously it isn’t flat. So therefore there must be another way to interpret that scripture besides literal._\* Ah. Now - this might sound snarky, **H4e** , and I apologize in advance if it does. I’m honestly not trying to be hostile; if there’s a logic to your method I sincerely would like to understand it. You said we can’t trust experience over Scripture because experiences can deceive, right? But…surely we learned that the Earth isn’t flat through experience? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-inerrancy-and-literal-interpretation-why/133824.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-inerrancy-and-literal-interpretation-why/133824.md?page=11)