# Biblical literalists: why is sucking a penis a sin, but sucking a lollipop isn't? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 3, 2003, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-literalists-why-is-sucking-a-penis-a-sin-but-sucking-a-lollipop-isnt/146505 "2003-01-03T22:47:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2003, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-literalists-why-is-sucking-a-penis-a-sin-but-sucking-a-lollipop-isnt/146505/1 "2003-01-03T22:47:27Z")
I asked that question in another thread, but it went unanswered, and so I thought I’d bring it into its own discussion. I would appreciate it if legalists could come up with something besides “the Bible says so”. First off, it doesn’t. Second, Jesus spent His whole ministry battling misinterpretations of scripture, and I have no reason to assume that your interpretations are superior. Third, you cherry pick as you please whatever Leviticus passages suit you and disregard the rest, making your whole case suspect. I want to hear logic. It doesn’t have to be a formal modal tableau or anything. I just want to know why sucking a penis is a sin, but sucking a lollipop isn’t. Is it because the penis sucker is gratifying his desires? Well, then the lollipop sucker is doing the same thing. So what’s the problem? Is God just unreasonable in your view? ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2003, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-literalists-why-is-sucking-a-penis-a-sin-but-sucking-a-lollipop-isnt/146505/2 "2003-01-03T22:50:16Z")
I haven’t read the entire bible. Could you provide the passage or passages that condem penis sucking, please? ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2003, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-literalists-why-is-sucking-a-penis-a-sin-but-sucking-a-lollipop-isnt/146505/3 "2003-01-03T22:53:45Z")
I certainly hope it’s not!😃 Hey wait, doesn’t the bible say not to eat pork?😉 ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2003, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-literalists-why-is-sucking-a-penis-a-sin-but-sucking-a-lollipop-isnt/146505/4 "2003-01-03T22:54:22Z")
I _have_ read the entire Bible. Could you provide the passage or passages that condem penis sucking, please? “Fellatio” doesn’t seem to be in my Cruden’s Complete Concordance. If you’re speaking of the passages that condemn “men lying with men as a man lies with a woman”, well, obviously, those are talking about anal sex, not fellatio. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2003, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-literalists-why-is-sucking-a-penis-a-sin-but-sucking-a-lollipop-isnt/146505/5 "2003-01-03T22:56:14Z")
I’ve read it, too. And like I said in the OP, there’s nothing there about it. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2003, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-literalists-why-is-sucking-a-penis-a-sin-but-sucking-a-lollipop-isnt/146505/6 "2003-01-03T23:04:03Z")
Not a literalist, but… whenever I’ve heard that come up, the basis of the claim was in Genesis 38. According to the claimants, one of Onan’s sins was wasting his seed, letting it go to a place other than somewhere it could be used for procreation. Since sucking on a penis often results in sperm ending up somewhere that’s useless as far as procreation goes, it is a sin. This is different than sucking on a lollipop, as finding the center of a tootsie pop usually doesn’t end in the spilling of semen, (of course, YMMV) hence - not a sin. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2003, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-literalists-why-is-sucking-a-penis-a-sin-but-sucking-a-lollipop-isnt/146505/7 "2003-01-03T23:06:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Libertarian \* > Is it because the penis sucker is gratifying his desires? Well, then the lollipop sucker is doing the same thing. Actually the penis sucker is (or is also) gratifying someone else’s desires. ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2003, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-literalists-why-is-sucking-a-penis-a-sin-but-sucking-a-lollipop-isnt/146505/8 "2003-01-03T23:06:45Z")
I gotta say first, love the title. Out of clarity, do the genders of the suckees matter? ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2003, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-literalists-why-is-sucking-a-penis-a-sin-but-sucking-a-lollipop-isnt/146505/9 "2003-01-03T23:07:58Z")
err, make that suckers, unless we’re taking in account of hermaphrodites. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2003, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-literalists-why-is-sucking-a-penis-a-sin-but-sucking-a-lollipop-isnt/146505/10 "2003-01-03T23:10:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by amarinth \* > \*\*Not a literalist, but… > whenever I’ve heard that come up, the basis of the claim was in Genesis 38. According to the claimants, one of Onan’s sins was wasting his seed, letting it go to a place other than somewhere it could be used for procreation. > > Since sucking on a penis often results in sperm ending up somewhere that’s useless as far as procreation goes, it is a sin. > > This is different than sucking on a lollipop, as finding the center of a tootsie pop usually doesn’t end in the spilling of semen, (of course, YMMV) hence - not a sin. \*\* So then mediocre fellatio that leads to nothing but frustration is not a sin? I’m confused. Personally, I think it’d be a bigger sin. But what if it were just a prelude that enabled additional activities that would lead to the conception of children? Wouldn’t it then be a plus? ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2003, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-literalists-why-is-sucking-a-penis-a-sin-but-sucking-a-lollipop-isnt/146505/11 "2003-01-03T23:12:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by amarinth \* > \*\*Not a literalist, but… > whenever I’ve heard that come up, the basis of the claim was in Genesis 38. According to the claimants, one of Onan’s sins was wasting his seed, letting it go to a place other than somewhere it could be used for procreation. > > Since sucking on a penis often results in sperm ending up somewhere that’s useless as far as procreation goes, it is a sin. > > This is different than sucking on a lollipop, as finding the center of a tootsie pop usually doesn’t end in the spilling of semen, (of course, YMMV) hence - not a sin. \*\* Well, what if the sucker is on her period? I mean, the sperms going to go to waste anyway, right? I mean, what’s the case then? I just typed that didn’t I?? ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2003, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-literalists-why-is-sucking-a-penis-a-sin-but-sucking-a-lollipop-isnt/146505/12 "2003-01-03T23:12:59Z")
Ah, but Onan spilled his seed _on the ground._ In order for this to count as “penis sucking”, you would have to stipulate that he pulled out of _whoever’s_ mouth just in time and ejaculated on the ground. Seriously, though, Onan’s sin was in refusing to get his brother’s widow pregnant, not in “wasting his seed” or even in masturbating. [Genesis 38:](http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=GEN+38&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on&showxref=on) > [@](#): > > At that time, Judah left his brothers and went down to stay with a man of Adullam named Hirah. There Judah met the daughter of a Canaanite man named Shua. He married her and lay with her; she became pregnant and gave birth to a son, who was named Er. She conceived again and gave birth to a son and named him Onan. She gave birth to still another son and named him Shelah. It was at Kezib that she gave birth to him. > > Judah got a wife for Er, his firstborn, and her name was Tamar. But Er, Judah’s firstborn, was wicked in the LORD’s sight; so the LORD put him to death. > > Then Judah said to Onan, “Lie with your brother’s wife and fulfill your duty to her as a brother-in-law to produce offspring for your brother.” But Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so whenever he lay with his brother’s wife, he spilled his semen on the ground to keep from producing offspring for his brother. What he did was wicked in the LORD’s sight; so he put him to death also. I never read this story without feeling deeply sorry for Tamar, as bearing sons was very important to Bible Times Women, and Onan was being a complete Bible Times Shit. “Amen!” I mutter at the end of the story. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2003, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-literalists-why-is-sucking-a-penis-a-sin-but-sucking-a-lollipop-isnt/146505/13 "2003-01-03T23:17:10Z")
And, actually, it does say that he “lay with her”, so evidently he always pulled out before he ejaculated. Which must have meant that he didn’t have very vigorous sperm, if not even a single wiggler managed to make its way to Egg Heaven. So maybe Tamar was better off in the long run, not having a baby by a Total Loser. ---
**Author:** ![Amok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f17d59/32.png) [@Amok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amok)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2003, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-literalists-why-is-sucking-a-penis-a-sin-but-sucking-a-lollipop-isnt/146505/14 "2003-01-03T23:24:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MEBuckner \* > Actually the penis sucker is (or is also) gratifying someone else’s desires. But that doesn’t necessarily differ from the other example. Perhaps lollipops like to be sucked. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2003, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-literalists-why-is-sucking-a-penis-a-sin-but-sucking-a-lollipop-isnt/146505/15 "2003-01-03T23:43:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Duck Duck Goose \* > I never read this story without feeling deeply sorry for Tamar, My one experience with coitus interuptus (long before I was married) suggested that it is extremely cruel and selfish for the man to deny the pleasure that an orgasmic penis can offer a woman particularly when she has been brought to the brink. The woman in this particular case certainly seemed to wish evil to befall me. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2003, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-literalists-why-is-sucking-a-penis-a-sin-but-sucking-a-lollipop-isnt/146505/16 "2003-01-03T23:49:21Z")
—If you’re speaking of the passages that condemn “men lying with men as a man lies with a woman”, well, obviously, those are talking about anal sex, not fellatio.— Or maybe just spooning? 🙂 I also remember this passage being a little ambiguous about the “lying” bit perhaps meaning “lying in the bed of a woman.” ---
**Author:** ![X\_Slayer\_ALE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/bbe5ce/32.png) [@X\_Slayer\_ALE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/X_Slayer_ALE)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2003, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-literalists-why-is-sucking-a-penis-a-sin-but-sucking-a-lollipop-isnt/146505/17 "2003-01-04T00:09:30Z")
Ok if wasting his seed is the sin, is this where mastubation becomes a sin? And if the basis is wasting seed, does this mean being the suckee is evil while being the sucker is not? ---
**Author:** ![Soup\_Nazi\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/db5fbb/32.png) [@Soup\_Nazi\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soup_Nazi_1)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2003, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-literalists-why-is-sucking-a-penis-a-sin-but-sucking-a-lollipop-isnt/146505/18 "2003-01-04T00:14:27Z")
Along the lines of what **Duck Duck Goose** said, I have heard the interpretation of Genesis 38 as God putting Onan to death for disobedience, since not only did Onan disobey his father,but the law at the time required him to fulfill that obligation as his brother. Sounds like a reasonable interpretation, but who’s to say who’s right? ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2003, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-literalists-why-is-sucking-a-penis-a-sin-but-sucking-a-lollipop-isnt/146505/19 "2003-01-04T00:34:36Z")
Wouldn’t you have to prove first of all that a Biblical literalist condemns fellatio as sinful? I never heard that one. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2003, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-literalists-why-is-sucking-a-penis-a-sin-but-sucking-a-lollipop-isnt/146505/20 "2003-01-04T00:41:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Duck Duck Goose \* > \*\*Seriously, though, Onan’s sin was in refusing to get his brother’s widow pregnant, not in “wasting his seed” or even in masturbating. > \*\* Well, yeah. Or at least, I think the sin was a combination of direct disobediance, trying to thwart the prophecy of God, etc. But that’s the reasoning I’ve heard when I’ve asked what the reasoning was. (It also isn’t very “literal” as it involves a whole lot of reading between the lines to get from that story to fellatio). I’ve never been able to figure out what, exactly to think of Tamar. Getting passed around from one brother to the next is bad. But then, her solution to the problem has always struck me as kind of icky. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-literalists-why-is-sucking-a-penis-a-sin-but-sucking-a-lollipop-isnt/146505.md?page=2)