# Biblical literalists: why is sucking a penis a sin, but sucking a lollipop isn't? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 3, 2003, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-literalists-why-is-sucking-a-penis-a-sin-but-sucking-a-lollipop-isnt/146505 "2003-01-03T22:47:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2003, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-literalists-why-is-sucking-a-penis-a-sin-but-sucking-a-lollipop-isnt/146505/21 "2003-01-04T00:58:55Z")
I want to know where in the bible it explicitly **permits** sucking on a lollipop. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2003, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-literalists-why-is-sucking-a-penis-a-sin-but-sucking-a-lollipop-isnt/146505/22 "2003-01-04T01:06:07Z")
I’m not a Biblical literalist (as you may now), but from what I understand of the \positions of those literalists/fundamentalists that do condemn ‘unnatural sexual acts’, the reasoning seems to be based on one of _design_; the mouth (it is argued) is _designed_ for speaking, ingesting food, kissing, etc; the penis is _designed_ for urination and procreation - under this kind of reasoning (which again, I stress is not my own, but I have met examples of it), fellatio becomes a violation of the designer’s _intended specifications_ or _guidelines_ - holders of this viewpoint often seem to describe the Bible as the ‘owner’s manual’ or some such. Of course this makes the huge assumption that we have correctly and comprehensively guessed/understood the designers specifications, doesn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![japatlgt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df705f/32.png) [@japatlgt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/japatlgt)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2003, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-literalists-why-is-sucking-a-penis-a-sin-but-sucking-a-lollipop-isnt/146505/23 "2003-01-04T01:09:42Z")
Not kosher? I dunno. ---
**Author:** ![ElJeffe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/958977/32.png) [@ElJeffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElJeffe)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2003, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-literalists-why-is-sucking-a-penis-a-sin-but-sucking-a-lollipop-isnt/146505/24 "2003-01-04T01:13:12Z")
So, then, fellatio is a sin in the same way that pounding a nail with the blunt end of a screwdriver is a sin. It’s all so clear to me now… Jeff ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2003, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-literalists-why-is-sucking-a-penis-a-sin-but-sucking-a-lollipop-isnt/146505/25 "2003-01-04T01:21:18Z")
Just in case somebody who does believe: it’s OK to suck a lolipop but not OK to suck a penis could I also ask (seriously)whether it’s OK to suck a penis-shaped lolipop? (and why or why not?). [sub]“lolipop-shaped penis” - there, now nobody needs to post a witty comeback.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2003, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-literalists-why-is-sucking-a-penis-a-sin-but-sucking-a-lollipop-isnt/146505/26 "2003-01-04T01:28:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Arnold Winkelried \* > \*\*Wouldn’t you have to prove first of all that a Biblical literalist condemns fellatio as sinful? I never heard that one. \*\* I’m not so sure about today, but the Catholic faith used to hold that any sexual act other than man-on-top, for-procreation-only was sinful. Fellatio was a sin which could earn you several years of pennance, should you admit to it in the confessional. In the early day of the church, sex was seen as a threat to one’s spirituality. Sex was for creating children, and creating children ONLY. Lust, even with one’s spouse was unclean and unholy. Anything that increased your sexual pleasure was wrong, including positions other than the tried-and-true missionary. Early church theologians expressed a disgust and contempt of women, urging folowers to abstain and “mortify” their flesh. To some, any pleasure, even down to enjoying a meal, distracted you from your purpose: to suffer in this life for original sin and recieve your pleasure and reward in the next. This was the time of hair shirts, and barefoot monks who never bathed, except to wash their hands. They ate cold, tasteless gruel, and drank only water to avoid pleasure in eating. The more contempt you showed for your body and its appetites, the holier you were. Women were evil temptresses, succubi trying to lure a man into a life of sin. Immodest and lustful by nature, women were to be avoided at all cost. The theology of this time was misogynistic in the extreme. Some doctors of the church even doubted that women had souls. Women were only vessels for bearing children, and were best locked away, because given a chance, a woman would sate her wanton lust. You can see this obsession with women’s sexual nature in the record of witchcraft trials. Women were toruted until they confessed that they had had sex with the devil. The decriptions often become very colorful. Satan’t penis is described as ice cold, and he always wanted to have the women perform “unnatural” acts, such as fellatio, and sex in the doggy-style fashion. Some people are shocked by the stone-work motifs on some medieval churches which are still standing. On the outside, below the eaves, you can see scenes of people copulating in the “sinful” fashions prohibited by the church. One church I have seen a picture of even features a man performing fellatio on himself. These were visual aids so that the faithful would know what was forbidden, but I would gander to say that it might have had the opposite effect in giving people ideas. The church’s sexual prohibitions found their way into secular law. (The church did not punish sinners other than ordering pennance and withholding communion. Anything stricter meant that the sinner had to be handed over to the secular authorities for punishment, with the ironic request that the State be merciful.) Sodomy laws still exist in many states here in the U.S (though they were most likely to prohibit homosexual behavior, but they could be applied to heterosexuals as well.) As recently as 1990, laws against heterosexual fellatio, cunnilingus, anal sex and the use of dildos still existed on the books in Idaho, Utah, Arizona, Oklahoma, Minnesota, Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, Florida, South Carolina, North Carolina, Virginia, Maryland, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, and Washington D.C. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2003, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-literalists-why-is-sucking-a-penis-a-sin-but-sucking-a-lollipop-isnt/146505/27 "2003-01-04T01:29:54Z")
I’m not sure there are many legalists around, at least not in the threads I’ve read over the past few weeks. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2003, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-literalists-why-is-sucking-a-penis-a-sin-but-sucking-a-lollipop-isnt/146505/28 "2003-01-04T01:31:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ElJeffe \* > \*\*So, then, fellatio is a sin in the same way that pounding a nail with the blunt end of a screwdriver is a sin. It’s all so clear to me now… > Jeff \*\* Well, I supppose the manufacturer of the screwdriver might warn you that such behaviour might result in injury, damage and invalidation of warranty. ---
**Author:** ![Icerigger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icerigger/32/432_2.png) [@Icerigger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icerigger)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2003, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-literalists-why-is-sucking-a-penis-a-sin-but-sucking-a-lollipop-isnt/146505/29 "2003-01-04T01:52:10Z")
These Christians don’t seem to have a problem with it. [http://www.themarriagebed.com/betterforhim.shtml](http://www.themarriagebed.com/betterforhim.shtml) ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2003, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-literalists-why-is-sucking-a-penis-a-sin-but-sucking-a-lollipop-isnt/146505/30 "2003-01-04T02:37:53Z")
Thank you Lissa. After searching on the internet, I found one site that said that the forbidding of fellatio comes from this verse (1 Corinthians 6 19) “Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that commiteth fornication sinneth against his own body.” (KJV translation) Note: My New Jerusalem Bible uses the words “sexual immorality” instead of “fornication”. The website I saw said that “fornication” meant “unnatural sex” and that included fellatio. Perhaps this is the same verse used by the Catholic Church to declare fellatio sinful. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2003, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-literalists-why-is-sucking-a-penis-a-sin-but-sucking-a-lollipop-isnt/146505/31 "2003-01-04T02:58:04Z")
Yes, but the context, starting with verse 15, is talking about sexual intercourse with prostitutes. NIV, Bible Gateway. > [@](#): > > 15Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ himself? Shall I then take the members of Christ and unite them with a prostitute? Never! 16Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, “The two will become one flesh.” 17But he who unites himself with the Lord is one with him in spirit. > > 18Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2003, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-literalists-why-is-sucking-a-penis-a-sin-but-sucking-a-lollipop-isnt/146505/32 "2003-01-04T02:59:54Z")
Oops, hit submit too soon. And it goes on with I Corinthians 7 talking about marriage. > [@](#): > > 2But since there is so much immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband. 3The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. 4The wife’s body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband. In the same way, the husband’s body does not belong to him alone but also to his wife. 5Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. So I think it’s kind of a stretch to take “sexual immorality”, given the context, to mean “fellatio”. ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2003, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-literalists-why-is-sucking-a-penis-a-sin-but-sucking-a-lollipop-isnt/146505/33 "2003-01-04T05:21:20Z")
Took me a while, but I found one of my books which addresses this very subject. \* A Mind Of Its Own: A Cultural History of the Penis. \* It states: > [@](#): > > The demon rod became an obsession of the Church in the literature known as penitentials . . . .[T]hese handbooks for confessors defined Christian behavior . . . Penetentials proceeded from the Augustian [referring to St. Augustine] idea that sex was sinful precisely in relation to the pleasure it created. . . . Violatord had to do penance, which meant exclusion from Communion, undertaking long fasts and similarly extended periods of abstinence, and sometimes public flogging. The length of penance for each sin is revealing: English penetentials demanded ten years penance for \* coitus interruptus, \* fifteen years for anal intercourse, and a lifelong penance for oral sex. (“Those who put semen in the mouth commit the worst evil,” said Theodore of Canutrbury.) Yet these same guidelines required only seven years penance for \*\* premeditated murder \*\* (Bolding mine) Interesting, eh? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2003, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-literalists-why-is-sucking-a-penis-a-sin-but-sucking-a-lollipop-isnt/146505/34 "2003-01-04T10:12:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Arnold Winkelried \* > \*\*Wouldn’t you have to prove first of all that a Biblical literalist condemns fellatio as sinful? I never heard that one. \*\* Proof? No problem. [QED](http://www.godhatesfags.com/main/index.html). ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2003, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-literalists-why-is-sucking-a-penis-a-sin-but-sucking-a-lollipop-isnt/146505/35 "2003-01-04T10:15:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Apos \* > \*\*I’m not sure there are many legalists around, at least not in the threads I’ve read over the past few weeks. \*\* They’re here. They just don’t like light. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2003, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-literalists-why-is-sucking-a-penis-a-sin-but-sucking-a-lollipop-isnt/146505/36 "2003-01-04T12:09:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mangetout \* > could I also ask (seriously)whether it’s OK to suck a penis-shaped lolipop? (and why or why not?). So, how many licks does it take to get to the center of a penis? The world may never know. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2003, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-literalists-why-is-sucking-a-penis-a-sin-but-sucking-a-lollipop-isnt/146505/37 "2003-01-04T13:18:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lissa \* > **You can see this obsession with women’s sexual nature in the record of witchcraft trials.** Are you referring to Salem? These people weren’t Catholic, were they? And do you have cites that demonstrate that the beliefs and practices you mention were common in the Catholic church? As opposed to practiced by zealots in the minority? I’m just curious. Your other cite was interesting, BTW… ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2003, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-literalists-why-is-sucking-a-penis-a-sin-but-sucking-a-lollipop-isnt/146505/38 "2003-01-04T13:53:53Z")
> [@](#): > > Are you referring to Salem? These people weren’t Catholic, were they? Um, the Spanish Inquisition? Which was run by the Catholic Church? That involved witchcraft trials? For about 400 years before the Salem witchcraft trials? [http://es.rice.edu/ES/humsoc/Galileo/Student\_Work/Trial96/loftis/overview.html](http://es.rice.edu/ES/humsoc/Galileo/Student_Work/Trial96/loftis/overview.html) > [@](#): > > However, the repression of heresy remained unorganized, and with the large scale heresies in the 11th and 12th centuries, Pope Gregory IX instituted the papal inquisition in 1231 for the apprehension and trial of heretics. The name Inquisition is der ived from the Latin verb inquiro (inquire into). The Inquisitiors did not wait for complaints, but sought out persons accused of heresy. Although the Inquisition was created to combat the heretical Cathari and Waldenses, the Inquisition later extended i ts activity to include witches, diviners, blasphemers, and other sacrilegious persons. Heretics, witches, burn 'em all. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2003, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-literalists-why-is-sucking-a-penis-a-sin-but-sucking-a-lollipop-isnt/146505/39 "2003-01-04T14:07:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Libertarian \* > \*\*Proof? No problem. [QED](http://www.godhatesfags.com/main/index.html). \*\* Do those idiots also condemn fellatio between a man and a woman? Or is this debate only about gays perfoming fellatio? ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2003, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-literalists-why-is-sucking-a-penis-a-sin-but-sucking-a-lollipop-isnt/146505/40 "2003-01-04T14:53:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Duck Duck Goose \* > **Um, the Spanish Inquisition? Which was run by the Catholic Church? That involved witchcraft trials? For about 400 years before the Salem witchcraft trials?** Thanks so much for your condescending reply. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-literalists-why-is-sucking-a-penis-a-sin-but-sucking-a-lollipop-isnt/146505.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-literalists-why-is-sucking-a-penis-a-sin-but-sucking-a-lollipop-isnt/146505.md?page=3)