# "Biblical" Marrages? are people really okay with this? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 24, 2011, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-marrages-are-people-really-okay-with-this/593926 "2011-08-24T17:56:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Chicagojeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@Chicagojeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chicagojeff)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-marrages-are-people-really-okay-with-this/593926/201 "2011-08-28T18:04:33Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#): > > Tell me **Brazil84** , when hitting on a “girl” as you call us, do we tell you to hit the road nine out of ten times? But that tenth time is so magical and wonderful you forget about the other nine times? > > 'Cause that’s all I can think of to support what you say. > > (Reasoning from SNL’s skit on Liberace and Michael Jackson giving tips on picking up women, circa the Eddie Murphy years. I always credit my sources.) Hey baby.. can i jump your bones?? (SNL SKIT) Concur with indygrrl on a couple of levels. This is the point I’m driving home on my 14yr old son.. be very deliberate and don’t hesitate.. Sensitive guys get to the one she tells her guy issues too.. That only works in a Julia Roberts movie.. And hitting on a lot of women would hardly qualify as having a special insight.. Have you ever considered that you might hit on the same type of women.. in the same manner.. Wouldn’t that possibly open up a scenario where their’s a type of woman who’s completely beyond you? Like dudes who only do bicep curls in the gym.. or going to the same section of the bookstore by instinct.. habit. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-marrages-are-people-really-okay-with-this/593926/202 "2011-08-28T18:35:05Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#): > > Tell me **Brazil84** , when hitting on a “girl” as you call us, do we tell you to hit the road nine out of ten times? But that tenth time is so magical and wonderful you forget about the other nine times? I would say that my success with girls increased significantly as my attitude became more dominant and chauvinistic. Believe it or not 3 of them – all in their 20s, attractive, and childless – have asked me to marry them over the years. Keep in mind that being the leader (“wearing the pants,” if you will) is not the same thing as being abusive. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-marrages-are-people-really-okay-with-this/593926/203 "2011-08-28T18:43:57Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > I would say that my success with girls increased significantly as my attitude became more dominant and chauvinistic. Believe it or not 3 of them – all in their 20s, attractive, and childless – have asked me to marry them over the years. Huh. Asking you to marry them. That’s not very submissive. I’m surprised a big macho stud like you would put up with that kind of talk from a woman…oh, excuse me, girl. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-marrages-are-people-really-okay-with-this/593926/204 "2011-08-28T18:50:57Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#): > > Huh. Asking you to marry them. That’s not very submissive. I’m surprised a big macho stud like you would put up with that kind of talk from a woman…oh, excuse me, girl. It doesn’t bother me. ---
**Author:** ![Indygrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@Indygrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indygrrl)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-marrages-are-people-really-okay-with-this/593926/205 "2011-08-28T22:25:28Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Possibly, but were you trying to seduce all of these 1000+ men? If you were, I would concede that you were in a better position to understand mens’ sexual motivations than men themselves. Even better, I was “seducing” them for their money, and all they got in return was flirty conversation and lapdances. And night after night, for 15 years, I was able to do this with considerable skill. > [@](#): > > You seemed to be implying that your preference for (relatively) assertive and confident men was special to you because of your own personality. But actually the preference is pretty much universal. (But only half universal since it’s not a turn-off for guys to meet a girl who is unassertive or timid.) Actually, what I said was, “And I don’t want to be with someone whose wimpiness brings out such ugliness in me. I’m sure there are women out there who do want a guy like that (I don’t know any of them, but I’m sure they’re out there, haha.), but not me.” Evidently you missed the point I was making, and that’s how me and all of the women I know prefer confident, self-assured men over the kiss ass, wimpy types. It’s funny to me that you somehow translate this preference into thinking that women want a domineering daddy type. All of the strong, independent women I know want EQUALS in their relationships, not someone to dominate them. Nor do they want to have to be “in charge” at all times, and make all of the decisions, which is inevitably what happens when a woman is with a wimpy guy. And of course it’s not a turn off for you to meet an unassertive, timid woman, because that’s the only type who would put up with the sort of dynamic you like in your relationship. There are plenty of men who would find that sort of woman boring. It’s not fun to be with someone who can’t stand up for themself, or always acts like a doormat and gives in when there’s a conflict. It’s probably hard for you to believe, but lots of men enjoy being with someone who challenges them, just as women do. I don’t have an issue with the way your relationship is, that’s entirely between you and your wife. What I do take issue with is your assumption that women in general subconsciously desire a man who will dominate them and be the “boss” in the relationship. You can’t use your dating history to make blanket statements about women. Well, you can, but you’d be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Indygrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@Indygrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indygrrl)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-marrages-are-people-really-okay-with-this/593926/206 "2011-08-28T22:36:40Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > I would say that my success with girls increased significantly as my attitude became more dominant and chauvinistic. Believe it or not 3 of them – all in their 20s, attractive, and childless – have asked me to marry them over the years. > > Keep in mind that being the leader (“wearing the pants,” if you will) is not the same thing as being abusive. Did these three women all know about the “biblical” way you planned to run your future marriage? Because if that wasn’t brought up and discussed in detail, I wouldn’t take these so-called proposals as proof that women want to be dominated and defer to the “pants in the family.” ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-marrages-are-people-really-okay-with-this/593926/207 "2011-08-29T10:39:53Z")
> [@Indygrrl](#): > > Even better, I was “seducing” them for their money, and all they got in return was flirty conversation and lapdances. And night after night, for 15 years, I was able to do this with considerable skill. Ok, so you provide a good example. If you were to claim that “Most men are really turned on by X, even though they usually won’t admit it,” I wouldn’t dismiss your statement on the ground that you are not a man. > [@](#): > > Evidently you missed the point I was making, and that’s how me and all of the women I know prefer confident, self-assured men over the kiss ass, wimpy types. No, I didn’t miss the point. I am simply addressing the deeper question of “why.” You seem to say that your preference is because of your own personality type, but that does not ring true since the preference is pretty much universal. > [@](#): > > And of course it’s not a turn off for you to meet an unassertive, timid woman, because that’s the only type who would put up with the sort of dynamic you like in your relationship. There are plenty of men who would find that sort of woman boring. It’s not fun to be with someone who can’t stand up for themself, or always acts like a doormat and gives in when there’s a conflict. It’s probably hard for you to believe, but lots of men enjoy being with someone who challenges them, just as women do. Well let me ask you this: Will you agree that confidence and assertiveness is far more valued in men than by men? > [@](#): > > You can’t use your dating history to make blanket statements about women. Well, you can, but you’d be wrong. Why is it wrong for me to generalize based on my experiences? Surely you yourself have some ideas about what men like and don’t like, based on your own experiences. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-marrages-are-people-really-okay-with-this/593926/208 "2011-08-29T10:50:42Z")
> [@Indygrrl](#): > > Did these three women all know about the “biblical” way you planned to run your future marriage? Sure of course. They all knew that I prefer to assert the traditional role of a man, i.e. to be the boss in the relationship. > [@](#): > > Because if that wasn’t brought up and discussed in detail, I wouldn’t take these so-called proposals as proof that women want to be dominated and defer to the “pants in the family.” I wouldn’t take it as proof either. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-marrages-are-people-really-okay-with-this/593926/209 "2011-08-29T15:56:14Z")
I dunno if the OP’s original question is still in play at this late date, but I’m “okay” with “bible marriages” simply because being “not-okay” with them accomplishes nothing desirable. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-marrages-are-people-really-okay-with-this/593926/210 "2011-08-29T15:59:33Z")
“Not OK with” implies a desire to prohibit them. I have no desire to prohibit them, but I still reserve every right to think it’s stupid, and I don’t have to respect the guys that do it. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-marrages-are-people-really-okay-with-this/593926/211 "2011-08-29T16:02:13Z")
And what does THAT accomplish? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-marrages-are-people-really-okay-with-this/593926/212 "2011-08-29T16:08:54Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > And what does THAT accomplish? Why does it have to accomplish anything? It’s not a message or a call to action, it’s just a personal dislike. People have a right to hold Klan rallies, but that doesn’t mean I have to like those people, and not liking those people is not about “accomplishing” anything, so I don’t really understand your question. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-marrages-are-people-really-okay-with-this/593926/213 "2011-08-29T16:14:51Z")
Hey, good for you. [slow, sarcastic applause] ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-marrages-are-people-really-okay-with-this/593926/214 "2011-08-29T16:26:51Z")
Who was asking for applause? I was answering the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-marrages-are-people-really-okay-with-this/593926/215 "2011-08-29T16:31:08Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > And what does THAT accomplish? It makes me feel better about **Dio**. That’s got to be worth something. ---
**Author:** ![Indygrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@Indygrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indygrrl)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-marrages-are-people-really-okay-with-this/593926/216 "2011-08-29T21:33:48Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Ok, so you provide a good example. If you were to claim that “Most men are really turned on by X, even though they usually won’t admit it,” I wouldn’t dismiss your statement on the ground that you are not a man. The difference would be that while I could probably name some things about men’s subconscious desires, I would never claim to know more about it than men themselves. Nor would I use my limited experience to make blanket statements about all men in general. > [@](#): > > No, I didn’t miss the point. I am simply addressing the deeper question of “why.” You seem to say that your preference is because of your own personality type, but that does not ring true since the preference is pretty much universal. I don’t think there’s a big mystery why women like an assertive, confident man over a wimpy one. No one is arguing about that. What we are arguing about is how you seem to be translating that into “women want to be dominated and have a man be the boss of the house.” > [@](#): > > Well let me ask you this: Will you agree that confidence and assertiveness is far more valued in men than by men? Are you asking whether confidence and assertiveness are more attractive to women than to men? I think it depends on who you are talking to, but in my experience, both women and men like those traits. It’s impossible to generalize though, because attraction is a subjective thing. > [@](#): > > Why is it wrong for me to generalize based on my experiences? Surely you yourself have some ideas about what men like and don’t like, based on your own experiences. Again, I can certainly deduce certain things based on my personal experiences, but it would be foolish of me to try to generalize about all men based on that. It’s like they say, the plural of anecdotal evidence is not data. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-marrages-are-people-really-okay-with-this/593926/217 "2011-08-29T22:37:25Z")
> [@Indygrrl](#): > > The difference would be that while I could probably name some things about men’s subconscious desires, I would never claim to know more about it than men themselves. If you did make such a claim, I would not reject it simply because you are not a man. Similarly, one can envision advertising men who know more than anyone about what motivates people to buy feminine hygeine products, even though those guys have never bought such products in their lives. > [@](#): > > Nor would I use my limited experience to make blanket statements about all men in general. So you have no general view about what approaches will motivate men in general to spend money in nightclubs? If so, I find it hard to believe. The fact is that everyone generalizes from their experiences and for the most part, it’s pretty non-controversial. If I had said “Be sure to do something nice for your girlfriend on her birthday – she may say she doesn’t want anything, but don’t believe her,” I doubt anyone would have replied that it’s a mistake for me to generalize based on my experiences. > [@](#): > > I don’t think there’s a big mystery why women like an assertive, confident man over a wimpy one. Then why? Why is it that assertiveness and confidence are so attractive in a man? > [@](#): > > Are you asking whether confidence and assertiveness are more attractive to women than to men? I think it depends on who you are talking to, but in my experience, both women and men like those traits. It’s impossible to generalize though, because attraction is a subjective thing. Well will you at least concede that some qualities are valued more highly in one sex than in the other? For example, youth. ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-marrages-are-people-really-okay-with-this/593926/218 "2011-08-29T22:54:34Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > If you did make such a claim, I would not reject it simply because you are not a man. No, you’d reject it because she’s a woman, and they’re none too bright. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-marrages-are-people-really-okay-with-this/593926/219 "2011-08-30T09:00:37Z")
> [@Capitaine\_Zombie](#): > > No, you’d reject it because she’s a woman, and they’re none too bright. Lol a stunning rebuttal. ---
**Author:** ![Waxwinged](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c2a13f/32.png) [@Waxwinged](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waxwinged)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-marrages-are-people-really-okay-with-this/593926/220 "2011-08-30T11:56:02Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Then why? Why is it that assertiveness and confidence are so attractive in a man? The same thing that makes those qualities so attractive in a woman. I’d think that most people would want a mature partner in marriage, not a doormat or a child. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-marrages-are-people-really-okay-with-this/593926.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-marrages-are-people-really-okay-with-this/593926.md?page=12)