# Biblical Scholarship
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-scholarship/648453
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [January 26, 2013, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-scholarship/648453 "2013-01-26T18:36:06Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Lubricious\_Integument](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lubricious_Integument)
#### Post date: [January 26, 2013, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-scholarship/648453/1 "2013-01-26T18:36:06Z")
To paraphrase Richard Dawkins,
Biblical scholar is an oxymoron. By definition a scholar has read more than one book.
Amusing. Mundane. Pointless. Shared.
---
### Author:  [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)
#### Post date: [January 26, 2013, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-scholarship/648453/2 "2013-01-26T20:27:25Z")
I would assume that a biblical scholar, one with an advanced degree, would have read many books on the Bible. Take Wayne Grudem, for example. [He literally wrote the book](http://www.amazon.com/Systematic-Theology-Introduction-Biblical-Doctrine/dp/0310286700) on biblical scholarship and has read(well, I assume) hundreds of books on the bible.
---
### Author:  [@Lubricious\_Integument](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lubricious_Integument)
#### Post date: [January 26, 2013, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-scholarship/648453/3 "2013-01-26T20:42:29Z")
Scholars love chasing citations…
Biblical scholar 1 cites the bible \*\*
Biblical scholar 2 cites {\*\*} and publishes [B1].
Biblical scholar 3 cites a subset of {\*\*,[B1]} and publishes [B2]
etc.
Of course at each step there are many such scholars. There are millions of biblical scholars today. They cite either \*\* or … ?
---
### Author:  [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)
#### Post date: [January 26, 2013, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-scholarship/648453/4 "2013-01-26T21:48:54Z")
Moved MPSIMS --\> Great Debates.
---
### Author:  [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)
#### Post date: [January 26, 2013, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-scholarship/648453/5 "2013-01-26T21:57:16Z")
I wonder how long we’ve got until the first [Courtier’s Reply](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Courtier%27s_Reply) shows up.
---
### Author:  [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)
#### Post date: [January 26, 2013, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-scholarship/648453/6 "2013-01-26T22:04:14Z")
Does the OP have the actual quote of Dawkins’ that he’s paraphrasing? I have a hard time believing Dawkins would have actually said something that silly.
There are scholars who study works like Gilgamesh or Beowulf or the Iliad. A scholar reads the work itself and then reads other books about the work.
---
### Author:  [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)
#### Post date: [January 26, 2013, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-scholarship/648453/7 "2013-01-26T22:15:44Z")
They don’t even need to confine their reading to books directly about the Bible; someone who is interested in disentangling the myths from the reality could easily spend at least as much time reading about archaeological findings than about the Bible. Or be an archaeologist himself.
---
### Author:  [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)
#### Post date: [January 26, 2013, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-scholarship/648453/8 "2013-01-26T22:16:54Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#):
>
> Does the OP have the actual quote of Dawkins’ that he’s paraphrasing? I have a hard time believing Dawkins would have actually said something that silly.
[It’s almost exactly what he said:](https://twitter.com/RichardDawkins/status/246913461949452288)
> [@Dawkins](#):
>
> Scholars? “Scholars”? Real scholars have read more than one book.
But the OP seems to have misunderstood the topic. Later the same day he said he _wasn’t_ talking about Biblical scholars. I can’t find the whole conversation but this later tweet might clear it up:
> [@Dawkins](#):
>
> Biblical history, biblical literature, archeology, mythology, all legitimate and worthwhile subjects for scholarly study. But “theology”?
---
### Author:  [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)
#### Post date: [January 26, 2013, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-scholarship/648453/9 "2013-01-26T22:19:27Z")
Yeah, the quote is just silly. There are many, many atheist/agnostic/non-Christian/non-Jewish biblical scholars. To really have produced that quote, Dawkins would have to believe that a) biblical scholars ONLY study the bible as some kind of literal history and b) you can’t be a non-Christian/Jew and be a biblical scholar.
As many faults as **Diogenes the Cynic** ’s argumentation style may have had, he knew the field of Biblical scholarship backwards, forwards and sideways, and he’s hardly a believer.
ETA: Ah…that makes more sense. Yeah, theology is almost entirely mental masturbation and I can understand Dawkins’s contempt for that.
(The difference between Tolkien nuts or Trekkies and theologists is that the former don’t REALLY think their field of study is connected to actual reality, generally.)
---
### Author:  [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)
#### Post date: [January 26, 2013, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-scholarship/648453/10 "2013-01-26T22:28:13Z")
Dawkins is a biologist. Like many in the hard sciences, he doesn’t have much respect for the arts and humanities.
---
### Author:  [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)
#### Post date: [January 26, 2013, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-scholarship/648453/11 "2013-01-26T22:30:31Z")
Biblical scholars (a term, incidentally, that carries no implication whatsoever that the scholars in question have read no other book than the Bible) have probably done more to advance the cause of atheism over the last couple of centuries, than anyone else apart from Charles Darwin himself.
---
### Author:  [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)
#### Post date: [January 26, 2013, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-scholarship/648453/12 "2013-01-26T22:52:17Z")
> [@jayjay](#):
>
> Yeah, the quote is just silly. There are many, many atheist/agnostic/non-Christian/non-Jewish biblical scholars. To really have produced that quote, Dawkins would have to believe that a) biblical scholars ONLY study the bible as some kind of literal history and b) you can’t be a non-Christian/Jew and be a biblical scholar.
>
> As many faults as **Diogenes the Cynic** ’s argumentation style may have had, he knew the field of Biblical scholarship backwards, forwards and sideways, and he’s hardly a believer.
>
> ETA: Ah…that makes more sense. Yeah, theology is almost entirely mental masturbation and I can understand Dawkins’s contempt for that.
>
> (The difference between Tolkien nuts or Trekkies and theologists is that the former don’t REALLY think their field of study is connected to actual reality, generally.)
This reminds me of an old quote (I was going to call it a “joke,” but that’s being mighty charitable…)
> [@](#):
>
> The difference between the Church of Rome and the Church of England is that the former is infallible while the latter is merely never wrong.
The great thing about you Brights is that you have no Pope whose pronouncements must be preserved at all costs.
---
### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [January 26, 2013, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-scholarship/648453/13 "2013-01-26T23:00:05Z")
> [@Alessan](#):
>
> Dawkins is a biologist. Like many in the hard sciences, he doesn’t have much respect for the arts and humanities.
No, he just can’t help himself when religion is involved.
---
### Author:  [@TATG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TATG)
#### Post date: [January 26, 2013, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-scholarship/648453/14 "2013-01-26T23:02:38Z")
> [@Marley23](#):
>
> But the OP seems to have misunderstood the topic. Later the same day he said he _wasn’t_ talking about Biblical scholars. I can’t find the whole conversation but this later tweet might clear it up:
>
> [QUOTE=Originally Posted by Dawkins, in December]
>
> Biblical history, biblical literature, archeology, mythology, all legitimate and worthwhile subjects for scholarly study. But “theology”?
[/QUOTE]
I thought “The God Delusion” was a work of theology.
---
### Author:  [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)
#### Post date: [January 26, 2013, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-scholarship/648453/15 "2013-01-26T23:25:09Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#):
>
> [QUOTE=Alessan]
>
> Dawkins is a biologist. Like many in the hard sciences, he doesn’t have much respect for the arts and humanities.
No, he just can’t help himself when religion is involved.
[/QUOTE]
Atheism is pretty much universal among biologists I understand. And it’s rather unrealistic to expect him to respect a blatantly wrong institution that spends an immense amount of effort calling him and his entire profession liars and monsters.
---
### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [January 26, 2013, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-scholarship/648453/16 "2013-01-26T23:43:47Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#):
>
> Atheism is pretty much universal among biologists I understand. And it’s rather unrealistic to expect him to respect a blatantly wrong institution that spends an immense amount of effort calling him and his entire profession liars and monsters.
I have no idea whether that’s true or not, but I don’t think Dawkins’ contempt for religion is a sign that he doesn’t appreciate the arts or the humanities. That is all.
---
### Author:  [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)
#### Post date: [January 26, 2013, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-scholarship/648453/17 "2013-01-26T23:50:23Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#):
>
> And it’s rather unrealistic to expect him to respect a blatantly wrong institution that spends an immense amount of effort calling him and his entire profession liars and monsters.
Lol. As if the C of E has ever done anything (this or anything else) so full-throated…
---
### Author:  [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)
#### Post date: [January 26, 2013, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-scholarship/648453/18 "2013-01-26T23:51:22Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#):
>
> I have no idea whether that’s true or not, but I don’t think Dawkins’ contempt for religion is a sign that he doesn’t appreciate the arts or the humanities. That is all.
No, but that’s the vibe I get from reading his books. Maybe I’m wrong, but he’s always seemed a bit too dour and focused to care much for “frivolities” like literature and poetry. Compare him to a non-scientist atheist like Stephen Fry - I doubt \*he \*would denigrate biblical scholarship.
---
### Author:  [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)
#### Post date: [January 26, 2013, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-scholarship/648453/19 "2013-01-26T23:52:20Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#):
>
> Atheism is pretty much universal among biologists I understand. And it’s rather unrealistic to expect him to respect a blatantly wrong institution that spends an immense amount of effort calling him and his entire profession liars and monsters.
Both parts of your statement are painting with a broad brush. There are two members of faculty in the dept. of Biology who attend my church.
Then again, my church has no issue with evolution. As a matter of fact, many of the largest faiths support evolution:
[http://www.pewforum.org/science-and-bioethics/religious-groups-views-on-evolution.aspx](http://www.pewforum.org/science-and-bioethics/religious-groups-views-on-evolution.aspx)
---
### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2013, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-scholarship/648453/20 "2013-01-27T00:02:05Z")
> [@Alessan](#):
>
> No, but that’s the vibe I get from reading his books. Maybe I’m wrong, but he’s always seemed a bit too dour and focused to care much for “frivolities” like literature and poetry. Compare him to a non-scientist atheist like Stephen Fry - I doubt \*he \*would denigrate biblical scholarship.
I’ve read many of his books, but only the ones dealing with Biology, so I wouldn’t know. But I would be surprised if he treated all the arts and humanities in the way he treats religion.
Besides, where did you get the idea that Biology is a “hard science”? 🙂
[Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biblical-scholarship/648453.md?page=2)