# Bicycle riding... 'With' traffic or against? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 27, 2013, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bicycle-riding-with-traffic-or-against/672363 "2013-10-27T09:39:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2013, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bicycle-riding-with-traffic-or-against/672363/61 "2013-10-27T21:48:12Z")
> [@misterW](#): > > … But hey, your choice. Actually it’s not. That’s the point of it being a law. Your intentionally disobeying the law in this case potentially puts others at risk in addition to yourself as they are forced to respond to your reckless action. You have not that right. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2013, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bicycle-riding-with-traffic-or-against/672363/62 "2013-10-27T22:04:00Z")
> [@misterW](#): > > Why do pedestrians walk facing traffic? So they can step out of the road entirely if a vehicle is coming their way. ---
**Author:** ![Mithras](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f04885/32.png) [@Mithras](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mithras)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2013, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bicycle-riding-with-traffic-or-against/672363/63 "2013-10-27T22:29:33Z")
> [@misterW](#): > > Not if you see the car moving to the center of the road in advance. > > This seems crazy to you. Yet, you would do the same thing…with your back turned? As anyone driving a car is used to dealing with overtaking other vehicles, yes I would. Putting myself into the perspective of the driver you would be biking directly towards, I do not believe I would continue to drive towards the biker. If I were unable to fully move into the oncoming lane to pass the cyclist, I would stop my car. And probably make many exasperated gestures. You would be putting driver after driver into situations for which they have not prepared themselves. This is because what you would be doing is both dangerous and illegal. ---
**Author:** ![misterW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@misterW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/misterW)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2013, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bicycle-riding-with-traffic-or-against/672363/64 "2013-10-27T22:52:44Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > So they can step out of the road entirely if a vehicle is coming their way. A good option to have. ---
**Author:** ![Patch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a183cd/32.png) [@Patch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patch)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2013, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bicycle-riding-with-traffic-or-against/672363/65 "2013-10-27T23:06:22Z")
> [@Bill\_Door](#): > > And when I come up to a right turn, I look left for traffic. If you’re coming at me from the right, you’re going down. Ride with traffic. My department’s latest annual Wrong Way report was generated entirely by bicyclists on the wrong side of the road who were struck by right turning vehicles at intersections. Yeah, you want to be traveling in the same direction as traffic. Also, all of the traffic signs that you need to obey are on the opposite side of the road, as well as intersection controls. ---
**Author:** ![JBDivmstr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b4bc9f/32.png) [@JBDivmstr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JBDivmstr)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bicycle-riding-with-traffic-or-against/672363/66 "2013-10-28T00:10:06Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > And you would be wrong because there is no realistically conceivable situation where following these basic rules would put you at more risk. > > Safety on the road requires that all of the actors involved follow the same set of rules and know what is expected from the other actor involved. (Barrelling through a green light is safe only because I know to expect that others will stop at the red light facing their direction; if I cannot trust that then what happens?) On my bike, including on roads where traffic can come at very high speeds from behind me, _ **I am protected by the fact that my actions and the actions of the driver are largely predictable** _ as we both understand what the rules are. If I was riding on the wrong side of the road I have now become an unpredictable agent which forces the other actor to decide upon their action based on a best guess of what I might or might not do. Those driver actions are now harder for me to predict. I have, by ignoring the agreement, placed both of us at risk (me moreso of course). (bolding mine) You’re protected?! Really? :dubious: Poor choice of words, IMHO. > [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Dude, you already [had this argument](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16377371&postcount=175) in the [Things that you can’t fathom people not understanding](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=693134&highlight=bicycle&page=4) thread. And correct you are, sir. I had completely forgotten about posting in that thread. :smack: > [@misterW](#): > > That is true. But, this discussion seemed to be lacking much argument from that side. Are you only allowed to discuss something once? Thanks, misterW. 🆒 I was feeling like the ‘Lone Stranger’, for a minute there. ☹ > [@misterW](#): > > You’re biking down a rural highway at dusk. The road has turns, but the occasional car that comes through whizzes by at 55-65 mph. Would you prefer to see if the car is moving over to avoid you or just hope for the best? > [@DSeid](#): > > From that thread I see that misterW is concerned about avoiding the person aiming for him from behind and thinks he could better dodge that crazy if he could see them aiming at him at a relative increase of speed of roughly 30 to 35 mph (the 15+ that I am driving away from the car that I am now driving towards it). > Ooookay. > I wonder though how he would handle the coming upon another cyclist riding on the correct side of the road? … > [@misterW](#): > > Why? If they see you, they see you. If they don’t, you’re dead if you’re going the same way. Going the opposite way, you may end up in the ditch. I know what I’d prefer. > Whether they hit from in front or behind, you’re dead. The added 15 mph of speed going toward them is not going to make a difference. As for the question, “I wonder though how he would handle the coming upon another cyclist riding on the correct side of the road?” Ummmm… You’re both on bicycles. It’s not like you’re approaching each other at 35+mph, in a 1,000+lb vehicle, with all of the distractions and decreased visibility that are inherent in such. Move to the right a little, _ **you can see** _ if you have the time and room, to do so. > [@misterW](#): > > Why do pedestrians walk facing traffic? > [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > So they can step out of the road entirely if a vehicle is coming their way. Annnnd, HOW is this any different from riding on a bicycle? 😕 Granted, if you’re riding a bicycle at ‘Tour de France’ speeds you’re not going to be able to just “step out of the road entirely”, without risking taking a tumble. Even if you _ **are** _ riding at ‘top speed’, you should still have time to bail off the bike and out of the roadway to keep that car that’s hugging the shoulder from smearing you all over their grill/windshield. Of course, that’s on the condition that you’re looking ahead. The comments about “You can hear the car coming.” and the “You should use a mirror.” advice isn’t very realistic, IME. ---
**Author:** ![EmAnJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d2c977/32.png) [@EmAnJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EmAnJ)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bicycle-riding-with-traffic-or-against/672363/67 "2013-10-28T00:14:54Z")
Can those who are stringently pro-riding against traffic check their local regulations and see if this is, in fact, illegal in their areas? Just curious. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bicycle-riding-with-traffic-or-against/672363/68 "2013-10-28T00:52:26Z")
> [@EmAnJ](#): > > Can those who are stringently pro-riding against traffic check their local regulations and see if this is, in fact, illegal in their areas? Just curious. I have, it is. Here, look it up in the [California Driver’s Handbook](http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/dl600.pdf) (PDF) It’s on page 60. It is also part of the uniform vehicle code, so I would expect all states the law is pretty much the same. ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_is\_the\_new\_Analog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a88e4f/32.png) [@Digital\_is\_the\_new\_Analog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_is_the_new_Analog)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bicycle-riding-with-traffic-or-against/672363/69 "2013-10-28T01:39:20Z")
> [@runningdude](#): > > Legally, bicycles are road vehicles and must ride with traffic. This is a bit of a generalization. In my location, for instance, I have the option of being a road vehicle or a pedestrian. If my bike is on the road, I must follow all standard road laws, including the direction of travel. If my bike is on the sidewalk, I need to treat myself as a pedestrian, including laws about crossing streets, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bicycle-riding-with-traffic-or-against/672363/70 "2013-10-28T02:07:27Z")
> [@JBDivmstr](#): > > Annnnd, HOW is this any different from riding on a bicycle? 😕 Because I’m not riding a bmx nor am I a trick rider so instead of lithely hopping over the curb like the graceful dancelike person I am, I smash the front wheel into it and crash my bike? Riding with traffic ftw. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bicycle-riding-with-traffic-or-against/672363/71 "2013-10-28T02:12:31Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > So they can step out of the road entirely if a vehicle is coming their way. More to the point they can do so instantly. Even walking as fast they can, or jogging a pedestrian can side-jump, side-step, and many other maneuvers that are simply not possible on a bicycle. Bikes are nimble, but they cannot pull the moves a pedestrian can do if need be. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bicycle-riding-with-traffic-or-against/672363/72 "2013-10-28T02:43:39Z")
> [@JBDivmstr](#): > > Annnnd, HOW is this any different from riding on a bicycle? 😕 When a car approaches, pedestrian is expected stay where he/she is, or step towards the curb. Either way, the correct action for the driver is the same and straightforward: veer away from the curb. But a cyclist riding against traffic? There’s a good chance he/she would realize that he/she is in the wrong position in the road, and veer right. Or veer towards the curb. How is the car driver to know?? ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bicycle-riding-with-traffic-or-against/672363/73 "2013-10-28T03:32:26Z")
> [@JBDivmstr](#): > > If you’re bent on suicide, sure, go ahead and ride anyway you want. :rolleyes: > > Other than that I would have to say that the first cop that sees you riding like that on a motorcycle is going to pull you over and write you a citation at the very least, or arrest you at worst. I can’t believe I actually have to type this out, but those are the same reasons you should ride your bicycle with traffic. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bicycle-riding-with-traffic-or-against/672363/74 "2013-10-28T04:00:20Z")
> [@misterW](#): > > Why? If they see you, they see you. If they don’t, you’re dead if you’re going the same way. Going the opposite way, you may end up in the ditch. I know what I’d prefer. If I’m the driver or cyclist you _are_ either going into the ditch, or out into the oncoming traffic, or meeting me head on. I will not pass on the wrong side unless I have no option. I will not move into the centre of the road for your sake. I find myself in this situation semi-regularly as a cyclist ie facing dumbass other cyclists on the wrong side of the road. I just keep as far to my (ie the kerb) side of the road as possible. Half the time they also head for the kerb and we end up playing chicken before stopping face on. At which point I yell “WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU THINK YOU ARE DOING?!” At which point they typically go red in the face and apologise and slink away. If they have the temerity to attempt any sort of argument they get “I AM SICK TO FUCKING DEATH OF BEING TARRED WITH THE SAME BRUSH AS SHITHEAD CYCLISTS LIKE YOU. GROW UP. IF YOU DON’T KNOW THE ROAD RULES _GET OFF THE FUCKING ROAD_!”. I’ve never had anyone attempt any further comeback at that point. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bicycle-riding-with-traffic-or-against/672363/75 "2013-10-28T04:12:52Z")
[Something to read.](http://www.mborobike.com/rideinfo/right.php) > [@](#): > > FACT: Wrong-way cyclists make up only five percent of bicycle traffic, but make up 21 percent of total car-bike collisions. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bicycle-riding-with-traffic-or-against/672363/76 "2013-10-28T04:14:47Z")
> [@misterW](#): > > Why do pedestrians walk facing traffic? > [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > So they can step out of the road entirely if a vehicle is coming their way. > [@misterW](#): > > A good option to have. And one that you generally do not have when mounted upon a moving bicycle that cannot sidestep onto a curb or dart into the space between parked cars. Which, along with the other things pointed out in this thread, has your steadfast insistence upon riding (not walking – there’s a world of difference) against traffic appearing as incredibly asinine to the rest of the world Sometimes when everyone else says you’re wrong, it’s because you are indeed wrong. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bicycle-riding-with-traffic-or-against/672363/77 "2013-10-28T04:28:37Z")
Not only that, but I assume a bicyclist riding the wrong way is probably not the most skilled rider. It’s something I expect from a little kid on a dead end street, not an adult out in traffic. I would not expect such a rider to have the skills or mental agility to get out of the way of oncoming traffic without it showing up on the news. ---
**Author:** ![JBDivmstr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b4bc9f/32.png) [@JBDivmstr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JBDivmstr)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bicycle-riding-with-traffic-or-against/672363/78 "2013-10-28T05:03:08Z")
As per my post #3, the law in Texas requires that bicycles abide by the same rules of the road that pertain to motor vehicles. FWIW, Houston doesn’t seem to have a very large number of bicycle commuters, at least not that I’ve noticed. Certain areas of the city do have a higher proportion of daily bicycle riders, and the ones that I _ **do** _ see, follow the law and ride with traffic. Due to the fact that roadways and driving habits have changed over the years, I’ll concede that my past riding style is no longer appropriate and that my thoughts on where to ride are just a ‘carry over’ from my youth. :smack: (During which time Houston DID NOT have _ **any** _ bike lanes, and in some parts of town, even sidewalks were pretty scarce.) :eek: To be perfectly honest, it’s been decades since I needed to ride a bicycle as a means of transportation, and for that matter, I don’t even own one anymore. 😉 You can all put the pitchforks back in the barn and extinguish your torches, now. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Floater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@Floater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floater)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bicycle-riding-with-traffic-or-against/672363/79 "2013-10-28T08:27:45Z")
As so many others have pointed out one way or another, traffic consists of two groups of moving objects, vehicles and pedestrians. Things that move on wheels, such as cars and bicycles are vehicles, and they are all subject to the same basic set of rules. These rules are there to facilitate for others to interpret your actions regarding turning etc. ---
**Author:** ![Ronald\_Raygun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c67d28/32.png) [@Ronald\_Raygun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ronald_Raygun)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bicycle-riding-with-traffic-or-against/672363/80 "2013-10-28T09:09:26Z")
It’s late, and the posters’ names are all blending into one another, but I just realized… are there really more than one of you arguing for riding against traffic? I’ve almost hit cyclists twice while driving my car. Both times they were coming down the wrong side of the street. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bicycle-riding-with-traffic-or-against/672363.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bicycle-riding-with-traffic-or-against/672363.md?page=5)