# Bicycles on the sidewalk **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 29, 2013, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bicycles-on-the-sidewalk/656975 "2013-04-29T01:13:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bicycles-on-the-sidewalk/656975/101 "2013-04-30T12:35:11Z")
> [@Aquadementia](#): > > You’re remarkable in being able to deduce my driving skill over a message board. > Well, speaking of deductions and bad drivers, it seems to me that if someone had anything of value to discuss they would have chosen another board for the topic. Starting a rant in the pit makes me think someone must have had a near miss and is looking to displace the blame. There’s nothing remarkable in noting the fact that you consider having to pass a slower-moving vehicle to be deeply unpleasant makes you very likely to be an unskilled driver. Passing other vehicles is a normal part of driving and should not make you fearful or angry. Why are you posting replies that you think have no value? I posted here because there is no real “debate” about this topic, it’s not a matter of “opinion,” nor is it “pointless,” etc., so this seemed like the place. If you read my original post, my main complaint is people who scream at cyclists that they need to get ON the sidewalk, so no, no “near miss.” This happens even when the cyclist is riding on the shoulder and not blocking the lane at all. It apparently happens because there are many people who actually believe that that is where bicycles are obligated to ride (and also because they are aggressive assholes). Where did they get this false belief and how did they become so confident in it that they think they need to scream at others? Please, Aquadementia, give me a peek into the squalid inner workings of your road-raging little mind. Why do the other people using the road upset you so? ---
**Author:** ![nkeenan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@nkeenan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nkeenan)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bicycles-on-the-sidewalk/656975/102 "2013-04-30T12:36:12Z")
is Look up other town laws on what is street and sidewalk legal, bring it to the attention of the PD and town. It is so enforced here because you get a fine. Sheriff Joe has problems but he put his foot down on that. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bicycles-on-the-sidewalk/656975/103 "2013-04-30T12:56:12Z")
> [@svd678](#): > > I think the safest place for bikes depends on conditions - kinds of traffic, and the law doesn’t always fit every situation. But that means people have to use caution, and common sense, rare commodities. I violently disagree with the poster who said always in road, traffic direction - when I’m on a low-traffic country road I want to SEE the car that might hit me, not have it sneek up behind, especially since some try to see how close they can come. This is absolutely the second dumbest thing you can do on a bike (exceeded only by not wearing a helmet). Here is why. Picture a driver coming out of a driveway or side street and will be turning right. Their head will be turned to the left to look for oncoming traffic, while you sneak up on them from the right. Like it or not drivers don’t have eyes in the back of their head. I ride a bike. Lots. I pay excellent attention to my surroundings yet I once hit a bike in this exact scenario. I was leaving a gas station, the sidewalk was clear and there was a parked car next to the driveway. I had pulled out across the sidewalk and partway into the street where my front bumper was about even with the left side of the parked car. Now the sidewalk is behind me so I have no worries about pedestrians. I am looking left to wait for a traffic break, it comes and as I take my foot off the brake I swivel my head back straight just in time to see a guy on a bike get knocked down by my front bumper. My car had moved maybe 6" forward at that point. Idiot was riding the wrong way because he wanted to be “safe”. It almost got him killed. Ride with traffic for OG’s sake it is safer. ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bicycles-on-the-sidewalk/656975/104 "2013-04-30T13:15:41Z")
> [@Silophant](#): > > If you’re a kid learning to ride a bike, moving at pedestrian speeds, you’re supposed to ride on the sidewalk. If you’re an adult, you’re biking at speeds comparable to vehicles, so you’re legally a vehicle and you should be in the streets with the vehicles. It’s the law. [Minnesota law](http://www.dot.state.mn.us/bike/roadrules.html), but other states are similar. > > ETA: Ninja’d a million times. That’ll teach me to take a shower between opening a thread and replying. Sheesh. From your link: [QUOTE=Minnesota Statute 169.222] (d) A person operating a bicycle upon a sidewalk, or across a roadway or shoulder on a crosswalk, shall yield the right-of-way to any pedestrian and shall give an audible signal when necessary before overtaking and passing any pedestrian. No person shall ride a bicycle upon a sidewalk within a business district unless permitted by local authorities. Local authorities may prohibit the operation of bicycles on any sidewalk or crosswalk under their jurisdiction. (f) A person lawfully operating a bicycle on a sidewalk, or across a roadway or shoulder on a crosswalk, shall have all the rights and duties applicable to a pedestrian under the same circumstances. [/QUOTE] [Minneapolis confirms it too:](http://www.ci.minneapolis.mn.us/bicycles/faq/index.htm) > [@](#): > > Can I ride my bicycle on the sidewalk? > > In Minneapolis you can ride a bicycle on the sidewalk in all locations except in commercial districts or where posted. Please be courteous to pedestrians and give advanced warning when passing. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bicycles-on-the-sidewalk/656975/105 "2013-04-30T13:47:33Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > I am looking left to wait for a traffic break, it comes and as I take my foot off the brake I swivel my head back straight just in time to see a guy on a bike get knocked down by my front bumper. My car had moved maybe 6" forward at that point. Idiot was riding the wrong way because he wanted to be “safe”. It almost got him killed. > Ride with traffic for OG’s sake it is safer. Pedestrians are supposed to look both ways before crossing, it makes good sense for drivers to do the same. Leaving aside cyclists, pedestrians are not obligated to walk in the same direction as traffic and joggers can move at a pretty decent clip themselves. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bicycles-on-the-sidewalk/656975/106 "2013-04-30T15:36:59Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > \*\*Seriously? This is what they teach these days? > > So, you don’t have kids run into the street suddenly? You don’t have jaywalkers crossing in the middle of the block? You don’t have pets running out into the street? None of that ever happens where you are?\*\* > > I was taught that a driver has a responsibility to avoid accidents, you don’t get excused for hurting or killing someone because you’re driving on the road they’re “supposed to be” on the sidewalk. > > No wonder the typical driver is so crap at driving. I didn’t say that’s what is taught, I’m saying that’s how drivers act. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bicycles-on-the-sidewalk/656975/107 "2013-04-30T16:12:21Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Pedestrians are supposed to look both ways before crossing, it makes good sense for drivers to do the same. Leaving aside cyclists, pedestrians are not obligated to walk in the same direction as traffic and joggers can move at a pretty decent clip themselves. I knew when I wrote that somebody would make this comment. Nice reading comprehension. I was past the sidewalk and out where only vehicles belong. Secondly can you honestly say you have never ever done exactly what I did that is take your foot off the brake as you turn your head to look? Now let me ask you a question. If the guy I hit had been a drunk in a car driving on the wrong side of the road and by moving 6" there had been a collision would that accident be my fault? FWIW a close friend in Texas got into the exact same type of accident I did except the bike rider got mouthy and called the cops. The cops cited the bike rider for riding the wrong way. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bicycles-on-the-sidewalk/656975/108 "2013-04-30T16:20:31Z")
I made a [post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=518961) once about bike riding on the streets or sidewalk. My contention then, as mine is now, is that its probably safer for the cyclists to ride on the sidewalk, they just have to go slower. Personally, I don’t feel safe riding on the streets, too much opportunities for cars to paste you to the asphalt. If I rode bikes, I’d do it on the sidewalk. I would rather be responsible for avoiding obstacles on the sidewalk than hope drivers are responsible enough to avoid me. Its basically me taking control over my own safety. On the road, cars are in charge, they need to watch where they’re going. On sidewalks, the cyclist is in charge, they need to walk where they’re going. Sure, it may be less fun for them to slow down at every bush or fence because some kid might run out from behind it, but if you want to bike, find yourself a bike path. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bicycles-on-the-sidewalk/656975/109 "2013-04-30T16:26:47Z")
And fucking joggers on MY goddam sidewalk! Oh, dear me, is my fat tire lodged in your rectum? Paramedics will be here soon, try to relax… ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bicycles-on-the-sidewalk/656975/110 "2013-04-30T16:36:15Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > I knew when I wrote that somebody would make this comment. > Nice reading comprehension. I was past the sidewalk and out where only vehicles belong. Secondly can you honestly say you have never ever done exactly what I did that is take your foot off the brake as you turn your head to look? > Now let me ask you a question. If the guy I hit had been a drunk in a car driving on the wrong side of the road and by moving 6" there had been a collision would that accident be my fault? > FWIW a close friend in Texas got into the exact same type of accident I did except the bike rider got mouthy and called the cops. The cops cited the bike rider for riding the wrong way. And for the record as a cyclist I really, really cannot stand wrong-way cyclists. Especially when they seem to think it is their right to be going the wrong way in a bike lane (hey, which way is that arrow pointing, asshole!). Its even worse when there are no bike lanes as that means they are using space where the bike is supposed to be when traveling properly. Cars certainly have some responsibilities when pulling out, etc. but there are limits to what can be anticipated. i am the first to give drivers grief for pulling out without checking or right-turing-on-red with no consideration for pedestrians, but in this case I don’t see what more a driver can do. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bicycles-on-the-sidewalk/656975/111 "2013-04-30T16:48:37Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > The exact same guidelines should apply to all sidewalks, whether they be busy city sidewalks with many hidden doors and a low speed limit for cars on the road, or suburban walks with hardly any useage and broad views, where the alternative would be to ride with traffic rushing by at 60 mph. The same exact safety calculus should hold in both cases. > > When you finally see it this way, it makes a lot more sense. Even when a sidewalk is coincident with a bike trail for a bit? ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bicycles-on-the-sidewalk/656975/112 "2013-04-30T18:15:21Z")
> [@chizzuk](#): > > A few months ago, I came within inches of hitting a cyclist who was riding on the sidewalk and went through an intersection while I was trying to turn left. I’m used to checking the crosswalk for pedestrians, as well as the nearby sidewalk X distance from the crosswalk in case somebody is about to step out. I’m not used to checking at X+100 distance for that fast-moving bicyclist who will be in position to shoot out in front of my car right as we both converge on that point. > > The kicker was that I had a green arrow, meaning oncoming traffic had a red light and pedestrians had a Don’t Walk sign. And he had no helmet, and he was coming from the wrong direction. It was like the Quadrifecta of Stupid. \ This is exactly why cycling on the sidewalks is so dangerous for cyclists. It’s not that drivers are so bad (although they are, and I don’t know why cyclists don’t account for that), it’s that cyclists are in places you don’t expect them, doing speeds you don’t expect. The other problem is right turns - I’ve driven past the sidewalk, and there were no pedes (or bikes), so I’m clear to turn across the crosswalk - except a cyclist has appeared out of nowhere, going very fast where he isn’t supposed to be. How many people shoulder-check to their right when making a right turn from the far right lane? None, because there aren’t supposed to be any vehicles there. > [@CrazyCatLady](#): > > Nitpick: Superfecta of Stupid. > > And yeah, bicyclists are a goddamn menace when mixed with pedestrians. I don’t really come into contact with much bike traffic any more, but when I was in school I was nearly plowed down from behind more times than I can count. I sat and listened to a conversation at the Student Center one day about how much somebody liked the look on pedestrians’ faces when she came slamming up behind and took them unawares. (The rollerbladers were just as prone to roaring up behind you and expecting you to avoid them, but you could at least hear them coming because the hard wheels made noise. Bikes, not so much.) People got hurt, and a pregnant lady raised a huge stink because a cyclist missed ramming her in the belly with a handlebar by a couple inches. TPTB finally made central campus a walk bike only zone. No, you can’t hear bikes coming up behind you at all - they are surprisingly quiet. I suspect that the cyclists know very well that they are giving the pedes enough room, but when you’re walking, you’re extremely vulnerable, and a vehicle missing you by a foot doesn’t feel like very much space. As for kids on bikes, I think they’re allowed to ride on the sidewalk here until 12 years old; 10-12 year olds are the absolute worst for buzzing pedes and getting a big kick out of it. Just last fall I got buzzed by a group of adolescent boys on bikes; if my husband had been on the bike side, he would have knocked the little shits off their bikes. As it was, I just jumped back in fright and yelled after them. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bicycles-on-the-sidewalk/656975/113 "2013-04-30T19:26:27Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > As for kids on bikes, I think they’re allowed to ride on the sidewalk here until 12 years old; 10-12 year olds are the absolute worst for buzzing pedes and getting a big kick out of it. Just last fall I got buzzed by a group of adolescent boys on bikes; if my husband had been on the bike side, he would have knocked the little shits off their bikes. As it was, I just jumped back in fright and yelled after them. Sadly, this is not limited to the sidewalk. On the MUTs around here we have groups of kids riding who exhibit the following bad habits/behaviors: 1. Eyes are usually looking the center-of-mass of the group rather than the direction they are going. 2. Inability to maintain even a basic straight line 3. Buzzing of pedestrians on the MUT 4. Buzzing of cyclists & rollerbladers 5. Riding bicycles much too large or small for their size (contributing to #2) 6. Thinking every other cyclist going the other way is playing “chicken”. 7. (for somewhat older kids) ride-by groping of female joggers There is a ‘season’ for these groups of kids on the MUTs. It happens right after school lets out. Pretty much every year I either see or have some kind of incident with one of these packs during my commute. Most of these incidents usually just involve me having to break hard because the lead kid was looking behind him not where he was going, but one incident in the late 90’s was a cascade of disaster caused by one of the kids groping a jogger. It ended with three kids bleeding and the spokes on my back tire getting bent. Ugly. ---
**Author:** ![svd678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/53a042/32.png) [@svd678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/svd678)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bicycles-on-the-sidewalk/656975/114 "2013-05-01T14:30:42Z")
I should explain myself (#44) and my untypical conditions: I was thinking of roads with 1 vehicle in five minutes, with at least quarter of a mile visibility, no blind intersections or alleys, no sidewalks and frequently no shoulders. ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bicycles-on-the-sidewalk/656975/115 "2013-05-01T14:35:41Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I just have a major issue with people so oblivious to the larger picture they think “he came off the sidewalk and that’s why I didn’t see him coming” is somehow a valid excuse for hitting someone. Sure, keep riding your bike at the highest speed possible and literally steering it right into oncoming traffic, then blaming the drivers because bicylists are above the law and never, ever at fault. Luckily for those of us with places to be, bicyclists like this are a problem that solves itself. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bicycles-on-the-sidewalk/656975/116 "2013-05-01T14:43:02Z")
Last evening, I was driving along a 4-lane road with a 45 mph speed limit, and this asshole dad was biking, pulling his kid in a bike trailer on the sidewalk! I wanted to yell at the fucker to get on the road where he belonged. If \*\*Ludovic \*\*had been with me we could have taken care of him. The sidewalk is \*never \*appropriate at \*any \*time. It is the only absolute in life, but at least we have that. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2013, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bicycles-on-the-sidewalk/656975/117 "2013-05-02T00:26:15Z")
I find the estimates of bicyclists capabilities in this thread to be fascinating. On the road, they’re barely more than a speed bump, plodding along and in everybody’s way. But on the sidewalk, they’re going 40 miles an hour, easy. ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2013, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bicycles-on-the-sidewalk/656975/118 "2013-05-02T01:14:02Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > I find the estimates of bicyclists capabilities in this thread to be fascinating. On the road, they’re barely more than a speed bump, plodding along and in everybody’s way. But on the sidewalk, they’re going 40 miles an hour, easy. It’s almost as if cars go much faster than pedestrians, somehow. ---
**Author:** ![River\_Hippie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/river_hippie/32/26_2.png) [@River\_Hippie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/River_Hippie)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2013, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bicycles-on-the-sidewalk/656975/119 "2013-05-02T01:21:24Z")
I ride on the sidewalk occasionally. Usually when to do otherwise would mean crossing a heavily trafficed street to ride a couple hundred feet and then cross back again. I just do whatever makes me feel safest. When on my bike I put my own safety first. I’m selfish like that! ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2013, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bicycles-on-the-sidewalk/656975/120 "2013-05-02T01:47:40Z")
> [@River\_Hippie](#): > > I ride on the sidewalk occasionally. Usually when to do otherwise would mean crossing a heavily trafficed street to ride a couple hundred feet and then cross back again. I just do whatever makes me feel safest. When on my bike I put my own safety first. I’m selfish like that! But only you get to have feelings instead of following laws. One driver honks at you and you’re ready to give him the chair, I’m sure. I commend you on being honest about the unbridled narcissism behind the thought process of most bicyclists, though. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bicycles-on-the-sidewalk/656975.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bicycles-on-the-sidewalk/656975.md?page=7)