Technically, you’re right. But since the traffic lights are still powered, to your average cop, it’ll look like they are operative, so you might get a ticket anyway. And the judge may agree with him. With a Dead Red law, you have a much better chance of winning one of those arguments.
I just wish the ID stop law would become more universal. I know of certain light that will not trigger for my bike (this is on a route into WA) and this is a route I do often. If I understand it correctly, I have to wait a certain time, even though I absolutely know it will not trigger. Why not allow me to go whenever it is safe to go? At this particular light, if I hop onto the sidewalk and press the cross button, it cycles the light almost immediately so this is the particular hokey pokey I choose to do. But, it’s a pain.
As a fanatical cyclist, who commutes and shops and goes everywhere on bike, I just want to say…
You bikers are insane!
(at least the impatient, entitled ones)
Giving up your precious momentum by stopping is 1/1000000000 as important as giving up your precious life by blowing through a stop sign or red light.
Bikers are already invisible to cars, even when you’re stopping and following all the rules that cars are subject to. I’ve been cut off, bumped and and even hit by drivers who swore “I never saw you there!”
My theory is that drivers are so focused on watching for other cars that they can’t even see a bike (even with flashing lights and bright colors and a rider yelling “HEY! WTF are you DOING?!?”).
It’s not just your theory; it’s a well-known phenomenon called inattentional blindness. And it almost certainly has a role in car-bicycle accidents.
Loop sensor.
You can frequently see a wire rectangle in the street surface. If set properly they will trip for a bike; however, they’re frequently set too high so that trucks will trip them w/o issue but cyclists are SoL.
They are most sensitive if a bike rides directly over the edge line. Problem is when they do work & repave the road but don’t recut them to the surface; not only do you not know where the edge line is, but the type of repaving can make them less sensitive than before given the amount of asphalt they are buried under.
If they don’t trip for you, the light is improperly set; complain to the appropriate municipal entity, although you sometimes need a whole lotta luck with that. There’s one intersection near me that is a state road crossing a county road, & it’s also the dividing line between two towns. The neighboring town owns maintenance of the light but those a$$holes refuse to do anything about it despite being notified numerous times. If I ever find out about a bike/car accident at that intersection, they’re gonna get their ass handed to them because they are on notice that it’s defective & have refused to take corrective action.
I believe every state has a law around inoperative lights. IF you get pulled over, inform the cop the light is defective & according to section ___ what you did was legal. That should end it right there, if it doesn’t request their supervisor to the scene. Since you’re still on scene you can show the supervisor that the light doesn’t work & should end any ticket before you leave.
This is my state’s version (3112) (c) (2)
(c) Inoperable or malfunctioning signal.– If a traffic-control signal is out of operation or is not functioning properly, including, but not limited to, a signal that uses inductive loop sensors or other automated technology to detect the presence of vehicles that fails to detect a vehicle, vehicular traffic facing a:
(1) Green or yellow signal may proceed with caution as indicated in subsection (a)(1) and (2).
(2) Red or completely unlighted signal shall stop in the same manner as at a stop sign, and the right to proceed shall be subject to the rules applicable after making a stop at a stop sign as provided in section 3323 (relating to stop signs and yield signs).
The problem is there are some intersections that are just not safe to cross against the red light, either due to # of lanes or limited visibility of crossing traffic.
There should be enough metal in a traditional framed bike to trip the magnetic loop sensors IF you are waiting in the right place. Some lights have a bike painted on the road to indicate where you should stop to trigger it; most don’t.
I don’t know if carbon fiber frames will trigger the loop sensors.
If it’s properly adjusted & one rides down the edge line, any bike, carbon or aluminum frames included should trip the loop sensor. Key word there is ‘IF’; many are not.
There was one intersection I used to go though where I could trip the lights by placing the bike wheel on the line where the loop sensor was buried (I assume that’s what you mean by “edge line”). Then I replaced the wheels and the new ones did not work. The new ones were thinner, so less metal.
For me, it’s not the loss of momentum per se. I don’t mind putting in the effort to accelerate. It’s the inherent loss of stability and maneuverability that comes from starting from a dead stop. At an intersection. With cars. Who as you note might not even see you (and even if they do, might not respect your right of way when you have it). Loss of stability is dangerous if a car pulls up beside you at the sign/signal and goes at the same time you do, leaving little space as they pass, and is especially nerve-racking if the road is poorly maintained/cracking. Loss of maneuverability and loss of stability together can be dangerous if you stop as required and then proceed when you have the right of way, but some asshole or inattentive driver in the crossing lane decides to proceed into the intersection too, before you’ve had a chance to clear it. It’s harder to turn to avoid the collision just after accelerating from a full stop, and it’s harder to stop safely yet again with the reduced stability.
Those are the things that worry me at intersections, anyway.
I’m following the state laws when I am “blowing through a stop sign”. And when I do, I’m completely safe because I am paying attention. I don’t blow through red lights, but I do treat them as stop signs while riding in ID. Again, following the laws.
Of course, most of my riding is in small towns and rural areas so not a lot of traffic. When I do happen to go into a larger town (Spokane, Coeur d’Alene, or anytown along 95), I typically don’t have the luxury of taking advantage of these laws because every intersection is busy. And that’s why I avoid those areas. I do hit 95 fairly often, but it’s just to cross. And it’s never that much fun.
One thing that bothers me is “too nice” drivers. I am at a stop sign with my hand down and my foot on ground (because I see that I should stop because there is traffic on the crossing street)
A car stops to let me go (It is not a 4 way stop). I would rather (s)he just go, because even though that car is stopped because it doesn’t mean traffic coming the other way will. It would be different if it was bumper to bumper traffic, but it is not, just busy enough that I should stop.
I can judge when it is safe to cross, really. You have the right of way, proceed as if I was car please.
Brian
- I do often treat stop signs as “Slow, Take a look, if it is Ok, Proceed” when on a bike, but if there is any doubt I come to a full stop.
Yes, I don’t like those “helpful” drivers either and it happens fairly often. Please, don’t stop for us. It always causes confusion and makes things more dangerous.
This is, I think, the best reason for bikes to be allowed to handle intersections differently from cars. This, and the “inattentional blindness” that puts bikers in even greater danger.
Ah, the “too nice” driver. Also a plague to pedestrians. Nice for them to stop and all, but this could lead a ped. or bicycle into a false sense of security…until the next driver blows past the nice, stopped one, and runs the pedestrian or biker down. Seemed to happen a lot in Seattle, where I used to live. I wish the nice drivers would realize they can’t control the intersection 100%, so they should just go, and get out of the equation.
(bolding mine)
This is an inaccurate and unfair portrayal of the law and bicyclists who follow that law. Cyclists are not allowed to “blow through” any intersection. Treating a stop sign as a yield means slowing down to a speed at which you can determine if the intersection is clear, and proceeding through only if it is. It’s possible to do this on a bike without a full stop.
Don’t conflate cyclists who proceed through an intersection safely with those who just assume anyone coming the other way will stop for them. It feeds into the anti-cyclist mentality and results in drivers feeling justified in yelling (or worse) at any cyclist who doesn’t stop completely.
An even more annoying variation is when the driver with the right of way on a busy street “yields” to you and impatiently waves at you to cross the street, despite the fact that the drivers in the other three lanes of traffic you need to cross are proceeding normally!