# Biden angers Erdogan; forced to apologize **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 5, 2014, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-angers-erdogan-forced-to-apologize/700459 "2014-10-05T15:25:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2014, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-angers-erdogan-forced-to-apologize/700459/1 "2014-10-05T15:25:28Z")
Here’s the story, from the [_Washington Post_](http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/biden-apologizes-to-turkeys-erdogan/2014/10/04/b3b5dc84-d97d-4381-ab7f-1754d495f84a_story.html): > [@](#): > > … after Biden claimed that Erdogan had acknowledged fault in enabling the flow of foreign fighters across the Turkish border, it was inevitable that a firestorm would ensue. > > … this furor comes at a critical moment in the United States’ already fraught relationship with NATO ally Turkey. > > Erdogan demanded the apology earlier Saturday after journalists confronted him with Biden’s comments. The vice president had claimed that Erdogan told him in a telephone call that Turkey had been wrong to allow thousands of foreign jihadists to enter Syria. > “He said, ‘You were right. We let too many people through.’ Now they’re trying to seal their border,” Biden said Thursday in an address at the Harvard Kennedy School. > “If Biden said such a thing, he is history to me,” Erdogan said Saturday, adding: “If he really said these words, then he should apologize to us.” Why can’t Biden control his tendency to make ill-considered, goofball remarks? Is he unable to understand that this sort of thing can have very bad consequences? Is it not part of Captain Obama’s job to stop his VP from drilling holes in the ship’s hull? ---
**Author:** ![IMfez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f07891/32.png) [@IMfez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IMfez)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2014, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-angers-erdogan-forced-to-apologize/700459/2 "2014-10-05T16:27:57Z")
People make mistakes. I’m sure you’ll say that people in Biden’s position and other positions of high authority should be more careful with their words. I disagree and think this overly sensitive focus pushes our leaders away from speaking candidly, and instead opting for a watered-down, politically motivated approach to public speeches. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2014, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-angers-erdogan-forced-to-apologize/700459/3 "2014-10-05T16:29:37Z")
Not just Turkey. Now it’s the [UAE.](http://news.yahoo.com/uae-demands-clarification-bidens-comments-110626566.html) ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2014, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-angers-erdogan-forced-to-apologize/700459/4 "2014-10-05T16:38:46Z")
I’m certain everything Biden said was vetted by the President and the State Department. “Accidentally” embarrassing people is Biden’s designated role in this administration. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2014, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-angers-erdogan-forced-to-apologize/700459/5 "2014-10-05T17:01:02Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I’m certain everything Biden said was vetted by the President and the State Department. So it was a deliberate choice by Obama to piss off countries we’re seeking as allies? > [@](#): > > “Accidentally” embarrassing people is Biden’s designated role in this administration. The people he embarrassed include himself and his President - is that really a good strategy? ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2014, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-angers-erdogan-forced-to-apologize/700459/6 "2014-10-05T17:03:10Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > Here’s the story, from the [_Washington Post_](http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/biden-apologizes-to-turkeys-erdogan/2014/10/04/b3b5dc84-d97d-4381-ab7f-1754d495f84a_story.html): > Why can’t Biden control his tendency to make ill-considered, goofball remarks? Probably the same reason that Bush could not control himself in trying to give massages to various foreign leaders. > [@Xema](#): > > Is he unable to understand that this sort of thing can have very bad consequences? Actually, I would think that he understands it quite well but I don’t think you do. Our relationship with Turkey and other countries is based on many factors and a stupid gaff, even an incendiary one, by Biden probably is pretty low on the list. > [@Xema](#): > > Is it not part of Captain Obama’s job to stop his VP from drilling holes in the ship’s hull? Finally, no, this is probably not part of _Captain_ Obama’s job. In fact, having a pit bull for for a second in command that doesn’t pull punches while the leader takes a more diplomatic approach is a well established method of governing, both domestically and internationally. The Bush/Cheney team used this method several times to pretty good effect. Finally, I think you should move this to the pit. I get the distinct impression that there is not much of a discussion here and you really just want to bitch about what a moron Biden is and how you think Captain Obama is going to sink the boat. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2014, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-angers-erdogan-forced-to-apologize/700459/7 "2014-10-05T17:05:23Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > So it was a deliberate choice by Obama to piss off countries we’re seeking as allies? No, it’s a choice to call out countries that are assisting the U.S.'s enemies - while maintaining plausible deniability, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2014, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-angers-erdogan-forced-to-apologize/700459/8 "2014-10-05T17:06:04Z")
> [@IMfez](#): > > … this overly sensitive focus pushes our leaders away from speaking candidly, and instead opting for a watered-down, politically motivated approach to public speeches. Should they not primarily aim to speak in a way that advances their country’s interests? And to avoid saying things that produce results counter to those? ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2014, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-angers-erdogan-forced-to-apologize/700459/9 "2014-10-05T17:23:17Z")
Perhaps he’s being used to convey an increasing US dissatisfaction with the funding of ISIS and other terror groups which indeed have happened by and through vigorous participation of exactly those countries. Also in the news: [Ergodan is the same as Homer Simpson](http://www.todayszaman.com/diplomacy_pkk-isil-are-the-same-says-erdogan_360766.html?) ---
**Author:** ![IMfez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f07891/32.png) [@IMfez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IMfez)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2014, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-angers-erdogan-forced-to-apologize/700459/10 "2014-10-05T17:34:01Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > Should they not primarily aim to speak in a way that advances their country’s interests? And to avoid saying things that produce results counter to those? In my opinion they should speak candidly instead of posturing, including the type of posturing you’re speaking of. Others will disagree but this is my view as someone who prefers open and candid public discussions. ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2014, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-angers-erdogan-forced-to-apologize/700459/11 "2014-10-05T19:42:28Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > Here’s the story, from the [_Washington Post_](http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/biden-apologizes-to-turkeys-erdogan/2014/10/04/b3b5dc84-d97d-4381-ab7f-1754d495f84a_story.html): > Why can’t Biden control his tendency to make ill-considered, goofball remarks? Is he unable to understand that this sort of thing can have very bad consequences? > > Is it not part of Captain Obama’s job to stop his VP from drilling holes in the ship’s hull? Biden has had chronic foot-in-mouth disease pretty much his whole life. He’s not going to get better at this late date. ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2014, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-angers-erdogan-forced-to-apologize/700459/12 "2014-10-05T20:47:09Z")
Was Biden factually wrong about this or did he just cause embarrassment to the countries involved? It seems like the money trails would be easy enough to establish. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2014, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-angers-erdogan-forced-to-apologize/700459/13 "2014-10-05T21:14:54Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I’m certain everything Biden said was vetted by the President and the State Department. “Accidentally” embarrassing people is Biden’s designated role in this administration. I think it’s easy to overestimate the ability of any administration to orchestrate everything anyone in that administration says, even the president and vice president. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2014, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-angers-erdogan-forced-to-apologize/700459/14 "2014-10-05T21:26:58Z")
It’s no doubt posturing for Erdogan as well. I have no doubt all political players involved know what they each think privately. For all we know those two really like each other, Biden perhaps over spoke publically so Erdogan felt compelled to publically defend the honor of his nation. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2014, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-angers-erdogan-forced-to-apologize/700459/15 "2014-10-06T00:15:09Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > it’s a choice to call out countries that are assisting the U.S.'s enemies - while maintaining plausible deniability, of course. This sounds plausible: it’s part of an intentional scheme is to reduce that assistance. But note that Erdogan isn’t simply objecting to what Biden said - he’s calling him a liar. And Biden’s well-publicized apology certainly makes it look like he agrees. It’s hard to see how that is a desirable part of the process by which Turkey becomes/remains a reliable ally. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2014, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-angers-erdogan-forced-to-apologize/700459/16 "2014-10-06T00:25:49Z")
> [@IMfez](#): > > People make mistakes. Yes, but when they make as many and as loudly as Biden you have to figure that the man is incapable of thinking before he opens his mouth. He’s a liability to the Dems. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2014, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-angers-erdogan-forced-to-apologize/700459/17 "2014-10-06T01:00:25Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > Yes, but when they make as many and as loudly as Biden you have to figure that the man is incapable of thinking before he opens his mouth. He’s a liability to the Dems. Biden is a likable guy. A valuable commodity in the politics arena. Also, I’m sure his likability far out weighs any negative effects from the foot in mouth moments. (Which ironically, is part of what makes him likable.) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2014, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-angers-erdogan-forced-to-apologize/700459/18 "2014-10-06T01:01:48Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > Biden is a likable guy. A valuable commodity in the politics arena. Also, I’m sure his likability far out weighs any negative effects from the foot in mouth moments. (Which ironically, is part of what makes him likable.) Huh. That was EXACTLY what I was planning to say. So you must be right!! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2014, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-angers-erdogan-forced-to-apologize/700459/19 "2014-10-06T03:59:17Z")
I’ve always said: Biden is America’s version of Prince Philip. Except Biden isn’t usually as casually racist. His apology is appropriate even if he or the the administration doesn’t “mean it.” It’s not inappropriate for a VP and he is hardly the most embarrassing! He also makes a [great Onion character](http://www.theonion.com/search/?q=biden). > [@Rune](#): > > Perhaps he’s being used to convey an increasing US dissatisfaction with the funding of ISIS and other terror groups which indeed have happened by and through vigorous participation of exactly those countries. Also in the news: [Ergodan is the same as Homer Simpson](http://www.todayszaman.com/diplomacy_pkk-isil-are-the-same-says-erdogan_360766.html?) Trying to build a secular democracy, trying to build a theocracy. Tomayto, tomahto. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2014, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-angers-erdogan-forced-to-apologize/700459/20 "2014-10-06T15:20:45Z")
I have no problems believing that what Biden said was true just as I acknowledge that Erdogan needed to demand (and Biden needed to give) an apology in terms of political theater. Now Erdogan will need to change his tactics or else Biden may “accidentally” let some other information slip loose [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-angers-erdogan-forced-to-apologize/700459.md?page=2)