# Biden considering dropping out (Update: Biden drops out) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [July 3, 2024, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-considering-dropping-out-update-biden-drops-out/1003690 "2024-07-03T16:50:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 24
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2024, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-considering-dropping-out-update-biden-drops-out/1003690/461 "2024-07-08T16:27:16Z")
For one thing the GOP could raise the narrative that other Dems don’t trust Harris to take over. For another, it will likely resonate with voters that the Democrats in general are at fault for Biden being president despite his age, and they will all be tarred with the brush of weekend-at-bernieing the presidency. And the media would still be harping on Biden any time he spoke to the public. By the way, Harris campaigning and being president could have positives. She would get to do stuff that she could take credit for, and use her position as president to draw media attention to herself. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2024, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-considering-dropping-out-update-biden-drops-out/1003690/462 "2024-07-08T16:37:58Z")
> [@DeadTreasSecretaries](#): > > For one thing the GOP could raise the narrative that other Dems don’t trust Harris to take over. Then why did we nominate her for president? > [@DeadTreasSecretaries](#): > > it will likely resonate with voters that the Democrats in general are at fault for Biden being president despite his age, and they will all be tarred with the brush of weekend-at-bernieing the presidency. I think this is giving voters way too much credit for analysis. And an equal number might also think the decision makes perfect sense – Biden was the right guy four years ago, he’s done a good job, and now he’s ready to pass the reins. > [@DeadTreasSecretaries](#): > > And the media would still be harping on Biden any time he spoke to the public. Great! He’s not the candidate! Meanwhile, Harris could be grabbing headlines by shredding Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2024, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-considering-dropping-out-update-biden-drops-out/1003690/463 "2024-07-08T16:45:38Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > Meanwhile, Harris could be grabbing headlines by shredding Trump. IMO, any statement like this (and I’m vacillating on “Biden is our best shot at defeating Trump”) is based on vibes and not actual evidence. No, someone else does not _have_ to be better. In the words of another poster here, “should” is irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2024, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-considering-dropping-out-update-biden-drops-out/1003690/464 "2024-07-08T16:57:07Z")
Biden is saying he’s staying in: > **[Read Biden's full letter to congressional Democrats declining to leave the...](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/read-bidens-full-letter-to-congressional-democrats-declining-to-leave-the-2024-presidential-race)** > > President Joe Biden wrote in the two-page letter Monday "the question of how to move forward has been well-aired for over a week now. And it's time for it to end." ---
**Author:** ![SuntanLotion](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suntanlotion/32/16165_2.png) [@SuntanLotion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuntanLotion)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2024, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-considering-dropping-out-update-biden-drops-out/1003690/465 "2024-07-08T17:08:08Z")
Then its time to stop speculating. Biden it is! ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2024, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-considering-dropping-out-update-biden-drops-out/1003690/466 "2024-07-08T17:10:57Z")
> [@SuntanLotion](#): > > Then its time to stop speculating. I don’t think he will stop the speculation. I’m sure Nixon said he wasn’t going to resign, until he did. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2024, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-considering-dropping-out-update-biden-drops-out/1003690/467 "2024-07-08T17:12:37Z")
Honestly, his activities today–releasing that letter, going on some radio show–are what I want to see. If he’s out there fighting, that’s basically what needs to happen. I am less sure this afternoon than I was this morning that he should drop out. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2024, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-considering-dropping-out-update-biden-drops-out/1003690/468 "2024-07-08T17:19:09Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > Then why did we nominate her for president? Out of fear of Biden losing rather than confidence in Harris. Or out of a desire for people who are good at getting the job, not at doing the job. > [@](#): > > I think this is giving voters way too much credit for analysis. And an equal number might also think the decision makes perfect sense – Biden was the right guy four years ago, he’s done a good job, and now he’s ready to pass the reins. Voters in general lump party leaders together and Harris will be asked to defend Biden as president. It will even happen if Biden resigns, but it will be more pronounced if he is president and it will mean fewer opportunities for Harris to put Biden behind her and draw attention to herself. I think people who voted for Biden 4 years ago and still think he’s done a good job are mostly going to continue to vote Democrat regardless of who the candidate or the president is because Trump is still insane and unpopular. It’s the people who might think any issues the Democrats have are at equivalent weight to Trump’s insanity that the Dems need to get. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2024, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-considering-dropping-out-update-biden-drops-out/1003690/469 "2024-07-08T17:20:53Z")
> [@DeadTreasSecretaries](#): > > Voters in general lump party leaders together and Harris will be asked to defend Biden as president. It will even happen if Biden resigns, but it will be more pronounced if he is president and it will mean fewer opportunities for Harris to put Biden behind her and draw attention to herself. Harris won’t have to put Biden behind her. He’s done a fine job as president. That’s not the problem. She can run on the record of their administration. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2024, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-considering-dropping-out-update-biden-drops-out/1003690/470 "2024-07-08T17:25:42Z")
I don’t think it’d be a good thing for Harris to get questions every time Biden stumbles or has a gaffe on camera. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2024, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-considering-dropping-out-update-biden-drops-out/1003690/471 "2024-07-08T17:31:44Z")
> [@DeadTreasSecretaries](#): > > It’s the people who might think any issues the Democrats have are at equivalent weight to Trump’s insanity that the Dems need to get. Hmmm … should I vote for the candidate from a somewhat dysfunctional party, or for the insane convicted felon who tried to overthrow the government? Aw fuck it, they’re both the same, I’m voting 3rd party. (Hard to believe this is even a choice for so many people, but here we are.) > [@Procrustus](#): > > Harris won’t have to put Biden behind her. He’s done a fine job as president. That’s not the problem. She can run on the record of their administration. > [@DeadTreasSecretaries](#): > > I don’t think it’d be a good thing for Harris to get questions every time Biden stumbles or has a gaffe on camera. “Joe Biden is and has been an excellent president. Now I’m working to carry on what he started. Next question.” ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2024, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-considering-dropping-out-update-biden-drops-out/1003690/472 "2024-07-08T17:31:53Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Honestly, his activities today–releasing that letter, going on some radio show–are what I want to see. Joe called into MSNBC’s _Morning Joe_ program this morning (below). Was there also a separate radio program appearance, or is the _Morning Joe_ appearance what you were referencing? [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/8aziuR76Cek/maxresdefault.jpg "'I am not going anywhere': Defiant Biden's message to Dem critics in MSNBC Exclusive") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aziuR76Cek) ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2024, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-considering-dropping-out-update-biden-drops-out/1003690/473 "2024-07-08T17:32:57Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > Biden is saying he’s staying in: > > [Read Biden’s full letter to congressional Democrats declining to leave the 2024 presidential race | PBS News](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/read-bidens-full-letter-to-congressional-democrats-declining-to-leave-the-2024-presidential-race) If he’s going to stay in, sure, that’s part of the necessary strategy. But I still say it’s a losing proposition. That letter doesn’t reflect the real Biden, and specifically it doesn’t reflect his shocking geriatric weaknesses. Trump is so easy to challenge, yet Biden can’t do it. Trump is such an obvious uninformed imbecile and obvious self-serving liar, such a clear and present danger to democracy, that he should be easy to take down. Biden can’t do it. Trump sprays himself with fake tan and bellows like a moose in the debate, and Biden’s response is barely audible over mumbled and mangled words and then he falls asleep. Yet somehow we’re supposed to believe that vast hordes of low-information voters who can’t see past the superficial are for some reason going to start supporting Biden? Heaven help us all! What Biden deserves is to be honoured as a great elder statesman enjoying a deservedly comfortable retirement in the twilight of his life, not to be the next president of the United States. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2024, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-considering-dropping-out-update-biden-drops-out/1003690/474 "2024-07-08T17:35:21Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > Hmmm … should I vote for the candidate from a somewhat dysfunctional party, or for the insane convicted felon who tried to overthrow the government? Aw fuck it, they’re both the same, I’m voting 3rd party. > > (Hard to believe this is even a choice for so many people, but here we are.) Yes, it should be an easy choice. Biden or Harris would still be oceans better for our country than Trump. However the American public is still divided. If this weren’t the case there would be no argument over handing the reins to Harris because she can clearly do the job and Trump would still be as awful as he is now. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2024, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-considering-dropping-out-update-biden-drops-out/1003690/475 "2024-07-08T18:12:30Z")
It’ll help Biden if he keeps generating headlines like “Biden tells Democrats to get in line” and “Biden calls in to XYZ show”. These are the info-bites that the uninformed voter will be exposed to and will remember come election day. They won’t necessarily click the link to read the letter or listen to the call, but the headlines alone will create an impression of Biden for the voters. If the headlines are all about how he’s actively working to win the election, that will have a positive effect. But if instead it’s just stories about how old and feeble he is, that’s the impression they’ll have. I don’t think traditional campaign events like rallies will be enough. The Biden team needs to keep doing unconventional stuff with a positive effect that keeps him in the headlines. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2024, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-considering-dropping-out-update-biden-drops-out/1003690/476 "2024-07-08T18:41:51Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Trump is so easy to challenge, yet Biden can’t do it. Trump is such an obvious uninformed imbecile and obvious self-serving liar, such a clear and present danger to democracy, that he should be easy to take down. Biden can’t do it. Trump sprays himself with fake tan and bellows like a moose in the debate, and Biden’s response is barely audible over mumbled and mangled words and then he falls asleep. > > Yet somehow **we’re supposed to believe that vast hordes of low-information voters who can’t see past the superficial are for some reason going to start supporting Biden?** Yes, that’s what we’re being asked to do. (My bolding in this and other quotations in this post.) We are asked to embrace the campaign strategy of Magical Thinking. Magical Thinking, self-hypnosis, and self-censorship = Victory! Except they _don’t_ equal victory. In the _Morning Joe_ interview that @bordelond linked to a few posts up, Biden was asked for his reply to voters worried about his fitness. **His reply: “Look at my record.”** Seriously. To people worried about his current and future ability to do the job at age 81+, he said ‘look at what I did when I was younger.’ Worse, as some have said, his challenge (in today’s letter) to Democrats to leave him alone until the August Dem convention, and then hold votes to try to force him out, _ **amounts to a suicide pact.** _ His family and aides have him all hopped-up about how Everyone is Being Mean to Him. As with his answer to the ABC 7/5 interview question about how he’d feel if he stays in and Trump wins\*, _it’s all about Joe._ From today’s letter: > [@](#): > > “Come on, give me a break. Come with me. Watch. Watch,” he said, referencing voter support in recent campaign stops. “I’m getting so frustrated by the elites… in the party who ‘they know so much more.’ But if any of these guys don’t think I should run, run against me. Go ahead. Announce for president. Challenge me at the convention.” > **[Biden tells Democrats he's not leaving the race, and it's time to stop...](https://www.npr.org/2024/07/08/nx-s1-5032737/biden-tells-democrats-stop-speculation)** > > President Biden told Democratic lawmakers and donors in no uncertain terms that he's not ending his reelection bid after he faltered in the debate — and that they needed to stop talking about it. \*The 7/5 interview answer: > [@](#): > > GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS: And if you stay in and Trump is elected and everything you’re warning about comes to pass, how will you feel in January? > > PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: I’ll feel as long as I gave it my all and I did the good as job as I know I can do, **that’s what this is about.** > **[ABC's George Stephanopoulos' exclusive interview with President Biden: Full...](https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/abc-news-anchor-george-stephanopoulos-exclusive-interview-biden/story?id=111695695)** > > Full transcript of the ABC News exclusive interview with President Joe Biden. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2024, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-considering-dropping-out-update-biden-drops-out/1003690/477 "2024-07-08T18:53:26Z")
Like it or not, this is up to Joe. Public pressure is just going to harden his stance and damage him in the likelihood he stays the nominee. If senior Democrats (i.e. Pelosi, Obama, Jeffries, Schumer, etc.) really feel Joe isn’t capable of finishing the race, I hope they tell him _privately_. But the public pressure campaign (which is mostly media driven right now) does nothing but harm our chances against Trump. And it’s just false to say Biden can’t win. It’s false to say, necessarily, any other candidate would do better. We don’t know. Biden could win. Especially if Democrats get behind him. Harris could win if Biden decides he can’t do it anymore and steps down and urges everyone to get behind her. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2024, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-considering-dropping-out-update-biden-drops-out/1003690/478 "2024-07-08T19:03:57Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Biden could win. Especially if Democrats get behind him. Those of us wishing that Biden would put country before ego and pass the torch, were committed to voting Democratic next November no matter what. _But our votes are not enough._ The Dems following the news were always going to vote Biden and will do so again if he stubbornly stays in. _But our votes are not enough._ Biden’s numbers have been terrible _before_ the debate. **Today he is far behind where he was at this time in 2020**. Ignoring this and hoping for the best while doing some sort of self-hypnosis ‘heCOULD win-heCOULDwin-heCOULDwin’ will not be helpful. The millions of votes–particularly those tens of thousands of votes in the battleground states–that MUST be cast for the Democratic candidate in order to stop Trump, will not be gained by urging news-aware Dems to practice self-hypnosis and self-censorship. Those votes have not been there for Biden and changing that will require more than just pointing out that Trump is terrible. We’ve been pointing out that Trump is terrible for many years, now—and he’s still polling better than or at least even with Biden. Getting those crucial votes will require inspiring those less-engaged voters to come out and vote Democratic. How is Biden going to do that? (Whereas a new ticket has the chance to _actually_ inspire. Hope and Change matter to these less-engaged voters. How is Biden going to provide those things?) ---
**Author:** ![Hawkeyeop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/958977/32.png) [@Hawkeyeop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hawkeyeop)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2024, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-considering-dropping-out-update-biden-drops-out/1003690/479 "2024-07-08T19:06:17Z")
I’d say the campaign was more voter driven. The media has stepped on it since the debate, but voters had large concerns even before that. I’d also imagine a lot of high ranking Democrats are using the media to try to send messages to Biden as they walk the fine line of encouraging him to step down without undermining him if he doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2024, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-considering-dropping-out-update-biden-drops-out/1003690/480 "2024-07-08T19:14:02Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Biden’s numbers have been terrible _before_ the debate. **Today he is far behind where he was at this time in 2020**. Ignoring this and hoping for the best while doing some sort of self-hypnosis ‘heCOULD win-heCOULDwin-heCOULDwin’ will not be helpful. No one else is doing significantly better. I’ve seen one poll with Harris a bit higher and that’s it. Most other polls had everyone, including Harris, doing _worse than Biden_. > [@](#): > > The millions of votes–particularly those tens of thousands of votes in the battleground states–that MUST vote Democratic in order to stop Trump, will not be gained by urging news-aware Dems to practice self-hypnosis and self-censorship. Those votes have not been there for Biden and changing that will require more than just pointing out that Trump is terrible. We’ve been pointing out that Trump is terrible for many years, now—and he’s still polling better than or at least even with Biden. > > Getting those crucial votes will require inspiring those less-engaged voters to come out and vote Democratic. > > How is Biden going to do that? > > (Whereas a new ticket has the chance to _actually_ inspire. Hope and Change matter to these less-engaged voters. How is Biden going to provide those things?) How is anyone else? By doing the hard work of campaigning and messaging. You might be right that Biden can’t do it, and you might be right that another candidate can. But we have no way of knowing right now. All this is is your supposition. I accept that you’re arguing this in good faith, but it’s based on feelings, not facts (as is my position and anyone else’s). There are no facts right now that could tell us anything concretely, only polls which are already nigh-meaningless this early and have recently been quite deceptive. And it’s entirely possible that the vast majority of possible Biden-voters already believed that he’s old and feeble before the debate. Abortion has been enough in dozens of recent special elections to get Democrats way, way ahead of their polling. After the conventions, most Americans will start to pay attention. My feelings are that the less risky option would be for Biden to step down as nominee (but remain President) and fully back Harris. But that’s just a feeling, and not a particularly strong one. Your certainty that Biden can’t win is just a feeling. It’s not based on any facts – no such certainty could be. Plenty of people were certain Trump couldn’t win in '16, or Biden couldn’t win in '20 – those were feelings, not based on facts. We should have the humility to recognize that our own personal feelings really aren’t any better than a guess as far as election predictions go. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-considering-dropping-out-update-biden-drops-out/1003690.md?page=23) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-considering-dropping-out-update-biden-drops-out/1003690.md?page=25)