# Biden considering dropping out (Update: Biden drops out) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [July 3, 2024, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-considering-dropping-out-update-biden-drops-out/1003690 "2024-07-03T16:50:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 27
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2024, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-considering-dropping-out-update-biden-drops-out/1003690/521 "2024-07-09T00:00:18Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > And if they weren’t about Biden but medical for someone else, say that without naming names. And if they were for some third reason that isn’t about someone’s medical status, give that reason. And the Republicans would just accept that at face value and move on? Naw, they would do exactly what they are doing right now. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2024, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-considering-dropping-out-update-biden-drops-out/1003690/522 "2024-07-09T00:19:31Z")
We are at a stage where congressional democrats want Biden to drop out, but they want it to be his decision. This is consistent with that idea: [Pelosi and Schiff raise questions over Biden’s age](https://www.politico.com/newsletters/california-playbook/2024/07/08/pelosi-and-schiff-raise-questions-over-bidens-age-00166748?is_magic_link=true&template_id=OTJIR2CRKUD6&template_variant_id=OTVPXN5JGTYRX) > [@](#): > > Pelosi, who [almost never criticizes](https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/joegarofoli/article/pelosi-biden-message-19552481.php) fellow Democrats, was less pointed than Schiff and she said Biden has been at the top of his game in their conversations. But she used strikingly similar language about the stakes of his candidacy relative to the November election. “[Trump] is undermining our democracy, and he must be stopped,” Pelosi told MSNBC’s **Andrea Mitchell**. > > Pelosi and Schiff both said the presidential candidates should be willing to take a cognitive test — something that Biden has flatly ruled out. The speaker emerita even said it’s legitimate to question whether his performance was “an episode or is this a condition?” Test for what conditions? Surely they know that there are many tests for multiple conditions, and that results are subject to interpretation. I expect cognitive testing would generate headlines such as: No Alzheimer’s, but Tests Raise New Questions. So even though I like Pelosi, I question the sincerity of her testing push. Instead I suspect Pelosi’s testing push is part of an effort to get Biden to quit on his own without it looking too much like party leaders bullied Joe to drop out. I hope this works. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2024, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-considering-dropping-out-update-biden-drops-out/1003690/523 "2024-07-09T00:25:16Z")
A lot of people seem to be looking to polls for the information. That’s great for getting a quick aggregate for large numbers of people, but the polls usually only allow a very limited range of answers. What we need is the skills of a good investigative journalist / sociologist / anthropologist to do some more in-depth interviews with a cross section of the people who are potential but not guaranteed D voters. My guess is that there is a lot of useful nuance out there that isn’t covered by “will likely vote for Biden over Trump.” It’s easier and cheaper not to dig, but then you risk interpreting the polls in light of your own preconceptions as to why people give the answers they do. It seems to me as if Democrats are looking at Biden vs not Biden as a simple binary (which, technically, it is), but not really examining what makes voters decide, or they’d have a better handle on this. They really only have to examine the swing states: I vote in California, so my vote is as close to irrelevant as possible in our system. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2024, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-considering-dropping-out-update-biden-drops-out/1003690/524 "2024-07-09T00:34:15Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > We are at a stage where congressional democrats want Biden to drop out, but they want it to be his decision. > > > When AOC, Jeffries, and Manchin are all in agreement, I’d call that a consensus. ---
**Author:** ![Eric1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3bc359/32.png) [@Eric1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eric1)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2024, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-considering-dropping-out-update-biden-drops-out/1003690/525 "2024-07-09T00:35:26Z")
That is fascinating about polls. I remember looking for snowball studies where the sociologists interviewed people at different intervals of time. It’s of course a rare thing to find those because they’re expensive. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2024, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-considering-dropping-out-update-biden-drops-out/1003690/526 "2024-07-09T01:09:00Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > When AOC, Jeffries, and Manchin are all in agreement, I’d call that a consensus. Manchin is so disliked by the Democratic base that if he pressured Joe to drop out, it might encourage others to come out against it. And none of them said, in their own words, that they oppose Joe dropping out. They are just reiterating their support for Biden. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2024, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-considering-dropping-out-update-biden-drops-out/1003690/527 "2024-07-09T01:46:30Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > And none of them said, in their own words, that they oppose Joe dropping out. They are just reiterating their support for Biden. Yup. They are skilled at parsing their statements precisely. To be very clear: right now Joe Biden is the nominee and I will without question support him in an election against Trump, who is a threat to democracy itself. It is definitely too soon to call the race over. And, for them, the quiet part, I very much want him to graciously step down. The race isn’t over but he’s been behind and I no longer have confidence that, despite having the will, he has the ability to fight this sort of fight and win right now. There didn’t say they want him to step down. They didn’t say they don’t want him to step down. Avoid. Politician answer 101. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2024, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-considering-dropping-out-update-biden-drops-out/1003690/528 "2024-07-09T02:48:05Z")
(General question, not just you.) Okay, so we have politicians who say outright that Biden should drop out and politicians who don’t directly answer the question. Anyone know of anyone who’s said directly, I think Biden should stay in because he’s our best bet against Trump, at least not in his administration? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2024, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-considering-dropping-out-update-biden-drops-out/1003690/529 "2024-07-09T02:49:06Z")
Harris did I think? ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2024, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-considering-dropping-out-update-biden-drops-out/1003690/530 "2024-07-09T02:49:53Z")
Sorry, edited to add “not in his administration.” They’re kind of a no brainer. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2024, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-considering-dropping-out-update-biden-drops-out/1003690/531 "2024-07-09T02:58:42Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > (Whereas a new ticket has the chance to _actually_ inspire. Hope and Change matter to these less-engaged voters. How is Biden going to provide those things?) > > How is anyone else? By doing the hard work of campaigning and messaging. You might be right that Biden can’t do it, and you might be right that another candidate can. But we have no way of knowing right now. Sure we do. By empirical observation. We **know** that Biden can’t do it because he’s tried and he’s failed. Miserably. Whether Harris can do it I don’t know because I haven’t seen her in campaign situations very often. I **know** Gavin Newsom can do it because I’ve seen him doing it, with intelligence, knowledge, and youthful energy. I know it would take a political miracle to put Newsom in that position, but that’s what the Dems need to win. But with the huge inertia of traditional politics an 81-year-old geezer with obviously failing mental faculties may indeed be all that Dems have. To those who think that saying that another Trump win will be the end of America as we know it, I say: look at some of the latest rulings of this dystopian Supreme Court. The end of America as we knew it is already well underway. After four more years of Trump it will be unrecognizable. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2024, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-considering-dropping-out-update-biden-drops-out/1003690/532 "2024-07-09T03:42:03Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > We are at a stage where congressional democrats want Biden to drop out, but they want it to be his decision. Where a FEW congressional democrats. I am sure that if Biden willingly dropped out, they’d be behind his decision. > [@PhillyGuy](#): > > Manchin is so disliked by the Democratic base that if he pressured Joe to drop out, it might encourage others to come out against it. > > And none of them said, in their own words, that they oppose Joe dropping out. They are just reiterating their support for Biden. There is a HUGE difference between “Biden should drop out!” vs “I will support the President’s decision”. > [@Leaper](#): > > Anyone know of anyone who’s said directly, I think Biden should stay in because he’s our best bet against Trump, at least not in his administration? [quote=“Smapti, post:524, topic:1003690”] _AOC: Joe Biden is our nominee. He is not leaving this race. He’s in this race and I support him…Jeffries: Yes. I made clear that day after the debate publicly that I support President Joe Biden and the Democratic ticket. My position has not changed_ > [@wolfpup](#): > > Sure we do. By empirical observation. We **know** that Biden can’t do it because he’s tried and he’s failed. Miserably. This is totally false. Biden can do it and has done it. > [@wolfpup](#): > > obviously failing mental faculties Again not true. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2024, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-considering-dropping-out-update-biden-drops-out/1003690/533 "2024-07-09T08:23:27Z")
Your feelings aren’t “empirical observations”. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2024, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-considering-dropping-out-update-biden-drops-out/1003690/534 "2024-07-09T10:53:03Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > There is a HUGE difference between “Biden should drop out!” vs “I will support the President’s decision”. Yes. And “I will support the President’s decision.” is very much compatible with “I hope Biden’s decision is to drop out.” It notably is a HUGE difference than saying “I think he should stay.” It’s a dodge. Yeah @Leaper, mostly they are of the “I support his decision, and will work my best to have us win this election” variety. [This article](https://sourcenm.com/2024/07/09/congressional-dems-urge-a-more-robust-biden-on-the-campaign-trail-but-few-openly-revolt/) though has a couple that are less tepid. Personally I don’t know that he can’t do the job of running for re-election while continuing to do the great job as president at the same time. But I no longer have much confidence that he can. And I fear he is neither being honest with us or even himself about his capabilities. ---
**Author:** ![Wrenching\_Spanners](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecb155/32.png) [@Wrenching\_Spanners](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wrenching_Spanners)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2024, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-considering-dropping-out-update-biden-drops-out/1003690/535 "2024-07-09T11:03:52Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > No need at all for him to serve four years. Voters thinking along those lines have their eyes way off the ball. Is your “ball” the defeat of Trump? If so, then your view of the “ball” matches the vast majority of the Democratic Party that’s anti-Trump, but possibly not the majority of the American electorate. Lots of people have a problem voting for a presidential candidate who isn’t mentally and physically able to be president. That was the accusation against Biden for months prior to the presidential debate. Biden needed to do one thing for the debate - not look like a confused old man. He failed at that task. Now undecided voters are faced with the choice of voting for the really corrupt big liar with some signs of being reduced by age, or the somewhat corrupt sometimes liar with major signs of being reduced by age. My opinion is that given that choice, a lot of undecided voters will stay home or vote for an outside candidate. I think very few voters who aren’t already fervently anti-Trump will vote for Biden hoping he’ll defeat Trump and then pass the presidency of to Harris. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2024, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-considering-dropping-out-update-biden-drops-out/1003690/536 "2024-07-09T11:17:01Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Your feelings aren’t “empirical observations”. OK, then let’s say “empirical observations of widespread views about Biden’s capabilities and mental faculties after the debate and after the ABC interview, including polling data”. All that matters in this game is voter perceptions. If you want a pithy one-sentence bumper-sticker slogan, instead of “Your feelings aren’t empirical observations” I would suggest “Wishful thinking isn’t a winning strategy”. ---
**Author:** ![colinfred](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colinfred/32/21338_2.png) [@colinfred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colinfred)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2024, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-considering-dropping-out-update-biden-drops-out/1003690/537 "2024-07-09T11:21:30Z")
I think at least one of the following statements is definitely true. Biden drops out of the race. Trump gets caught in a scandal that somehow is even worse than all we already know about him, (no mean feat) Trump will be the next president. I very much doubt statement 2 can happen, (but it could!) but if statements 1 and 2 are false, statement 3 will be true. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2024, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-considering-dropping-out-update-biden-drops-out/1003690/538 "2024-07-09T11:31:20Z")
You might be right, but all you’ve got right now is a guess. Same as I got, and same as anyone else. And like it or not, if Biden decides to stay in (as it appears he is) then he’s going to be the nominee. Certainty that he’s going to lose helps no one but Trump. Biden can still win. Much, much stranger things have happened than a “comeback” from being down 4 months prior to the election. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2024, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-considering-dropping-out-update-biden-drops-out/1003690/539 "2024-07-09T11:31:47Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > Joe called into MSNBC’s _Morning Joe_ program this morning (below). Was there also a separate radio program appearance, or is the _Morning Joe_ appearance what you were referencing? Sorry, yes–that’s what I was talking about. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2024, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-considering-dropping-out-update-biden-drops-out/1003690/540 "2024-07-09T13:58:28Z")
**[The closest thing we have so far to public about-faces](https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/election-2024-campaign-news-07-09-24/index.html)** from U.S. Representatives regarding whether Joe Biden should run (Nadler’s audio was somewhat more emphatic in Biden’s favor, IMHO): > ## Nadler signals support for Biden after sources say he privately indicated president should not be nominee > > _From CNN’s Haley Talbot_ > > Rep. Jerry Nadler signaled support for President Joe Biden’s reelection effort on Tuesday, telling CNN ahead of a meeting with House Democrats: > > “Whether or not I have concerns is besides the point. He is going to be our nominee and we all have to support him.” > > The New York congressman was one of several members who said they would like Biden to step aside from the campaign during a call among top Democrats, according to sources, CNN [previously reported](https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/07/politics/house-democrats-biden-out/index.html). Same link: > ## After expressing concern over debate performance, Rep. Cleaver says he supports Biden > > From CNN’s Andrew Millman > > Missouri Rep. Emanuel Cleaver, a Congressional Black Caucus member, expressed confidence in President Joe Biden after previously voicing concern over Biden’s debate performance[to local media](https://www.kcur.org/podcast/up-to-date/2024-07-05/rep-emanuel-cleaver-is-worried-about-joe-bidens-candidacy-but-also-about-an-open-convention). > > “President Biden is not ready to be rolled into an old folks’ home,” Cleaver said, adding that he is “the same Joe Biden that I started campaigning for” in 2020. > > “Democrats will not be able to attract others to the light if we keep hanging out in the darkness of discontent and doubt,” Cleaver said on “CNN News Central” with John Berman, Kate Bolduan and Sara Sidner. > > Cleaver said his change from concern to full backing of Biden is because he’s “had the opportunity to be around the president since then and be in conversation since then,” before citing various aspects of Biden’s presidential record. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-considering-dropping-out-update-biden-drops-out/1003690.md?page=26) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-considering-dropping-out-update-biden-drops-out/1003690.md?page=28)