# Biden forces schools and colleges to allow biological males to compete in women's sports **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 21, 2021, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-forces-schools-and-colleges-to-allow-biological-males-to-compete-in-womens-sports/931098 "2021-01-21T15:17:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2021, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-forces-schools-and-colleges-to-allow-biological-males-to-compete-in-womens-sports/931098/1 "2021-01-21T15:17:21Z")
Today he signed an executive order banning discrimination based on gender identity in any educational institution receiving federal funding; transgender students must now be allowed to play on whatever team they identify as, regardless of biology or hormone status. This is obviously unfair to women and girls - biological males have a huge advantage in sports. That’s why we have separate teams in the first place. Not only does it mean potentially losing out on medals and spots on a team, but also on scholarships. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2021, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-forces-schools-and-colleges-to-allow-biological-males-to-compete-in-womens-sports/931098/2 "2021-01-21T15:21:38Z")
As long as few enough males participate, the blowback/pushback will probably be small enough that the outcry will be at a manageable level. Still not a good idea to begin with, but probably won’t make for a big-enough fuss. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2021, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-forces-schools-and-colleges-to-allow-biological-males-to-compete-in-womens-sports/931098/3 "2021-01-21T15:23:14Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > obviously unfair No expert myself but aware enough of the controversy to know that the above is not the case. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2021, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-forces-schools-and-colleges-to-allow-biological-males-to-compete-in-womens-sports/931098/4 "2021-01-21T15:26:33Z")
How refreshing that this is the kind of complaint we now have about our president. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2021, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-forces-schools-and-colleges-to-allow-biological-males-to-compete-in-womens-sports/931098/5 "2021-01-21T15:30:15Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > No expert myself but aware enough of the controversy to know that the above is not the case. How do you make that out? The 203rd best men’s tennis player easily beat both Williams sisters and more than 1/200 people is thought to be trans. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2021, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-forces-schools-and-colleges-to-allow-biological-males-to-compete-in-womens-sports/931098/6 "2021-01-21T15:32:29Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > As long as few enough males participate, the blowback/pushback will probably be small enough that the outcry will be at a manageable level. > > Still not a good idea to begin with, but probably won’t make for a big-enough fuss. If they screwed with men’s sports there would be a fuss, but women don’t matter. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2021, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-forces-schools-and-colleges-to-allow-biological-males-to-compete-in-womens-sports/931098/7 "2021-01-21T15:36:02Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Today he signed an executive order banning discrimination based on gender identity in any educational institution receiving federal funding; transgender students must now be allowed to play on whatever team they identify as, regardless of biology or hormone status. Can you provide a cite for that? I can only find articles about preventing employment discrimination in the workplace and in the military. > **[President Biden takes action to protect transgender Americans from...](https://www.kold.com/2021/01/21/president-biden-takes-action-protect-transgender-americans-discrimination/)** > > In addition to the executive order expanding on Bostock, President Biden also announced executive action to advance racial equity, to protect DREAMers and to protect workers. > With his executive order today, President Joe Biden is directing the federal government to fully implement the US Supreme Court’s ruling in _Bostock v. Clayton County, Georgia,_ which ruled that Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 protects people from discrimination at work based on their sexual orientation or gender identity. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2021, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-forces-schools-and-colleges-to-allow-biological-males-to-compete-in-womens-sports/931098/8 "2021-01-21T15:39:11Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Today he signed an executive order banning discrimination based on gender identity in any educational institution receiving federal funding; transgender students must now be allowed to play on whatever team they identify as, regardless of biology or hormone status. According to what site? ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2021, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-forces-schools-and-colleges-to-allow-biological-males-to-compete-in-womens-sports/931098/9 "2021-01-21T15:42:29Z")
Here is the order: [Executive Order on Preventing and Combating Discrimination on the Basis of Gender Identity or Sexual Orientation | The White House](https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/presidential-actions/2021/01/20/executive-order-preventing-and-combating-discrimination-on-basis-of-gender-identity-or-sexual-orientation/) Perhaps @DemonTree can explain which part forces schools to allow transgender students to “play on whatever team they identify as, regardless of biology or hormone status”. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2021, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-forces-schools-and-colleges-to-allow-biological-males-to-compete-in-womens-sports/931098/10 "2021-01-21T15:45:57Z")
My casual understanding is that testosterone levels when how long and how long ago matter as potentially does the specific sport. Last I read on it nothing seemed to be so obvious. To my read it seemed pretty dang complicated and murky and bright line free. Different regulatory bodies have read the science and come to different conclusions. But long debate threads can be easily found if you search I am sure. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2021, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-forces-schools-and-colleges-to-allow-biological-males-to-compete-in-womens-sports/931098/11 "2021-01-21T15:46:32Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > If they screwed with men’s sports there would be a fuss, but women don’t matter. Maybe, but men’s sports are for the most part un-screwable in this regard. You can’t find athletes in sports who would perform better at it than…the male ones. An FtM athlete wouldn’t perform as well in male sports as a cismale. But an MtF would have a considerable advantage in the women’s game. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2021, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-forces-schools-and-colleges-to-allow-biological-males-to-compete-in-womens-sports/931098/12 "2021-01-21T15:47:11Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > Perhaps @DemonTree can explain which part forces schools to allow transgender students to “play on whatever team they identify as, regardless of biology or hormone status”. That would be helpful in distinguishing this from the many other threads the OP has participated in where transwomen were the subject of various complaints. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2021, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-forces-schools-and-colleges-to-allow-biological-males-to-compete-in-womens-sports/931098/13 "2021-01-21T15:49:49Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > Perhaps @DemonTree can explain which part forces schools to allow transgender students to “play on whatever team they identify as, regardless of biology or hormone status”. AIUI that’s what banning discrimination on the basis of gender identity means. And school sports are mentioned in the first paragraph. Perhaps we need a lawyer to interpret it? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2021, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-forces-schools-and-colleges-to-allow-biological-males-to-compete-in-womens-sports/931098/14 "2021-01-21T15:50:42Z")
The whole reason sports was gender-segregated to begin with was to give something of a “safe space” for women. Allowing men to compete as women would be a blow to that. A clear case of you-can’t-make-every-faction-in-the-big-tent-happy. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2021, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-forces-schools-and-colleges-to-allow-biological-males-to-compete-in-womens-sports/931098/15 "2021-01-21T15:52:01Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > Here is the order: Thanks. It refers to enforcing Title IX of the Education Amendments of 1972, which is this: > **[Title Ix Of The Education Amendments Of 1972](https://www.justice.gov/crt/title-ix-education-amendments-1972)** ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2021, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-forces-schools-and-colleges-to-allow-biological-males-to-compete-in-womens-sports/931098/16 "2021-01-21T15:52:46Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Maybe, but men’s sports are for the most part un-screwable in this regard. You can’t find athletes in sports who would perform better at it than…the male ones. An FtM athlete wouldn’t perform as well in male sports as a cismale. What if they allowed some competitors to take normally banned performance enhancing drugs to treat their medical conditions? That would be a somewhat similar situation. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2021, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-forces-schools-and-colleges-to-allow-biological-males-to-compete-in-womens-sports/931098/17 "2021-01-21T15:55:27Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > The whole reason sports was gender-segregated to begin with was to give something of a “safe space” for women. Allowing men to compete as women would be a blow to that. A clear case of you-can’t-make-every-faction-in-the-big-tent-happy. It was to allow women to compete on an equal basis. Showing that sex discrimination is not always a bad thing, sometimes it produces a fairer result than the opposite. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2021, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-forces-schools-and-colleges-to-allow-biological-males-to-compete-in-womens-sports/931098/18 "2021-01-21T15:55:40Z")
Certainly lawyers will be involved in interpreting it. But, generally speaking, no, “banning discrimination on the basis of gender identity” does not mean that there can be no rules whatsoever regarding transgender participation in sports. It just means you have to meet the various bars regarding discriminatory rules that apply to other protected classes (race, gender, religion, etc). If you can show a compelling interest in regulations that require, for example, a certain hormonal level, and you can back that up with scientific fact, then it would not run afoul of anti-discrimination rules. More generally, rather than flip out at an order that requires agencies to review policies to make sure they are in compliance with anti-discrimination rules regarding transgender people we should all wait to see what actual rules get implemented? ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2021, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-forces-schools-and-colleges-to-allow-biological-males-to-compete-in-womens-sports/931098/19 "2021-01-21T15:57:14Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > If you can show a compelling interest in regulations that require, for example, a certain hormonal level, and you can back that up with scientific fact, then it would not run afoul of anti-discrimination rules. Practically every study so far has shown there is still an advantage even after hormone suppression. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2021, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-forces-schools-and-colleges-to-allow-biological-males-to-compete-in-womens-sports/931098/20 "2021-01-21T15:58:06Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Practically every study so far has shown there is still an advantage even after hormone suppression. If that is true then I have no doubt that such a rule would be upheld. I am not an expert in the literature. I just wanted to point out that the order did not do what you claimed it did. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-forces-schools-and-colleges-to-allow-biological-males-to-compete-in-womens-sports/931098.md?page=2)