# Biden v Trump: June 27 debate (Live debate comment here) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [June 25, 2024, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-v-trump-june-27-debate-live-debate-comment-here/1003332 "2024-06-25T20:56:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 38
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2024, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-v-trump-june-27-debate-live-debate-comment-here/1003332/741 "2024-06-28T22:46:27Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > What they saw last night will be ‘it’ for many of them. I may try to look for data on this, but my WAG is that low information voters are pretty unlikely to have watched a debate this early on. I suspect that if they watch anything it is the acceptance speech at the convention and the last debate. Of course Biden may be as doddering going forward too. No way for us to know. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2024, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-v-trump-june-27-debate-live-debate-comment-here/1003332/742 "2024-06-28T22:52:55Z")
So can’t tell who were the watchers but apparently there were [not so many](https://www.reuters.com/world/us/biden-trump-debate-draws-48-million-tv-viewers-2024-06-28/) of them: > [@](#): > > The number is about 30% lower than the 73 million people who watched the candidates’ first face-off in 2020, and among the three lowest-rated first presidential debates since 1976. > > The relatively low number compared to past debates in recent election cycles could be indicative of low voter enthusiasm for both candidates. It does not capture the full extent of online viewing, which has grown in popularity as traditional TV audiences decline. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2024, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-v-trump-june-27-debate-live-debate-comment-here/1003332/743 "2024-06-28T23:03:32Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > I think you raise a good number of cogent points. Because _this particular_ debate is behind us, I’m going to assume we have a bit of latitude to go off the reservation for a moment. > > I think it’s a hugely complicated issue (who watches the watchers, or fact-checks the fact-checkers?), but I think there _is_ a relatively simple – if not easy – approach. > > We do what we do about any of these debates: negotiate with the camps of each candidate, and we come to an agreement. > > By the time we near debate time, most of us have heard endless iterations of the same basic falsehoods or misleading statements from each candidate. > > Make a list. Start there. > > Shutting off the microphones is a big step. I’m still a wee bit amazed that the Trump (much more so) and Biden (far less so) agreed to it. > > They might have to go two hours or more, or reduce the number of questions. I’m not sure where the breaking point is for the the national attention span, but X% _will_ assuredly stop watching after Y minutes is basically a given. > > They have smart people to address that sort of dropout rate. > > You don’t answer the question? My hypothetical bipartisan panel of subject matter experts decides – maybe even by anonymous iPads that tally the judges’ take on each candidates ‘response’ (ie, was it actually responsive to the question asked) in real time. > > Some agreement as to topics that won’t be allowed without pain will catch a bunch, but clearly not all, of the BS. > > There would have to be some mechanism – again: perhaps a separate bipartisan panel of researchers who were – similarly – fact-checking in real-time. > > Maybe both groups (the responsiveness of the answer to the question asked _and_ the truthfulness of the answer) are tabulated and displayed by [**dial testing**](https://www.dialsmith.com/blog/dial-testing-vs-focus-groups-how-are-they-different/). > > TL;DR; Idunno. But I don’t doubt that smart, motivated, concerned people could come up with enough potentially viable solutions to the problems you thoughtfully raised, and maybe – just _maybe –_ candidates who did _not_ want to be excluded from the debates, for cause, would find ways to say yes. > > [Our bipartisan panel of experts rates @DavidNRockies answer as 78% responsive and 66% truthful] So all the Rs will vote down Biden and all the Ds will vote down Trump. What does that prove. How about we let the supposed leader of the free world stick up for himself? I don’t care what pundits, experts, moderators say. I want to hear from the candidates and the candidates alone. If one or both refuse to answer the question then that’s an answer. I don’t want Jake Tapper fighting Biden’s battles ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2024, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-v-trump-june-27-debate-live-debate-comment-here/1003332/744 "2024-06-28T23:33:56Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > How about we let the supposed leader of the free world stick up for himself? Sure. In theory. The concern I always have is that a _candidate_ from whom you’d really like to hear – somebody whose policy prescriptions you feel are important – but who is up against a Donald Trump simply cannot do both. They can’t inform you and defuse the interminable incoming they’d surely receive. The clock’s a-ticking. It’s the Gish Gallop incarnate. Trump, his lackeys, and pretty much the whole of RW media does precious little besides train a fire hose of bullshit on everybody in every direction. As Reagan said, “If you’re explaining, you’re losing.” Or … “If you’re not on offense, you’re on defense.” Even if Biden _had_ all the answers right at hand, the task of fact-checking Trump in real-time would be, IMHO, all-consuming. How does he walk away from _that_ encounter with anything even remotely resembling a win? > [@Loach](#): > > So all the Rs will vote down Biden and all the Ds will vote down Trump. What does that prove. I don’t know that it would necessarily break down that cleanly along party lines. That’s really where [_ **voir dire** _](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voir_dire) comes in. The people who would serve as subject matter experts might have political proclivities, but it wouldn’t be a job for partisans. It would be a job for people with training, experience, and qualifications to fill the role. [Sounds like a job for The Deep State \] Much as we tend to hear how seriously juries take _that_ solemn duty, I assume it’s possible to find willing, capable people who are committed to the cause, and can readily put country before party. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2024, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-v-trump-june-27-debate-live-debate-comment-here/1003332/745 "2024-06-29T00:14:43Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > Shutting off the microphones is a big step. I’m still a wee bit amazed that the Trump (much more so) and Biden (far less so) agreed to it. This kept him from bullying Biden with interruptions. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2024, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-v-trump-june-27-debate-live-debate-comment-here/1003332/746 "2024-06-29T00:37:23Z")
I read about 60m people watched the debate, but maybe not all were American. However, Biden’s pauses will be replayed in Republican fundraising until the election. _The Economist_ and some Democrats are talking louder about other candidates when they need to either unify, or agree exceedingly quickly. Again, Biden’s points were not as bad as his mildly dyspeptic appearance when Trump was talking. The worst thing might have been the “Democratic Operative says Biden must go” banner perpetually on screen after the debate. If it was true, this person is a moron for saying this to CNN directly after the debate. I hope Biden wins for many reasons, not least recent Supreme decisions. However, if he does not have a 50% chance, should he run, if the goal is anyone but Trump? (Giftlink: _Economist_ - Biden should step down) [https://econ.st/3XKQDca](https://econ.st/3XKQDca) (Excerpt:) _In November 2022 **The Economist** said that, after a lifetime of public service, Joe Biden should not seek re-election as president. In January this year we put our concerns on the cover. But even those worried about his age were not prepared for [Thursday’s debate](https://www.economist.com/united-states/2024/06/28/joe-bidens-horrific-debate-performance-casts-his-entire-candidacy-into-doubt) against Donald Trump. Over 90 agonising minutes, Mr Biden was befuddled and incoherent—too infirm, frankly, to cope with another four years in the world’s hardest job._ _Mr Biden says he is [standing again](https://www.economist.com/leaders/2024/06/27/what-to-make-of-joe-bidens-plans-for-a-second-term) to help ordinary Americans and to save democracy from Mr Trump’s vengeful demagoguery. And the former president’s scowling, evasive and truth-defying appearance on the debate stage did nothing to diminish the urgency of those two aims. Yet if Mr Biden really cares about his mission, then his last and greatest public service should be to stand aside for [another Democratic nominee](https://www.economist.com/the-economist-explains/2024/06/28/how-could-democrats-replace-joe-biden-as-their-candidate-for-president)._ ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2024, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-v-trump-june-27-debate-live-debate-comment-here/1003332/747 "2024-06-29T02:03:07Z")
Play it out for me. Biden steps down. Releases his delegates. Who wins? Does the open battle drive enthusiasm or leave resentment? I’d go with Harris but some think she’d be a weak candidate. Skip over her though and you alienate some Black and women voters. Is this more likely to get a win than hoping Biden gets his shit together and gets that energetic version out front? ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2024, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-v-trump-june-27-debate-live-debate-comment-here/1003332/748 "2024-06-29T03:14:09Z")
The New York Times editorial board just called for him to withdraw from the race [anyone have a gift link?] > At Thursday’s debate, the president needed to convince the American public that he was equal to the formidable demands of the office he is seeking to hold for another term. Voters, however, cannot be expected to ignore what was instead plain to see: Mr. Biden is not the man he was four years ago. > > The president [appeared on Thursday night](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/27/us/politics/biden-debate-democrats.html) as the shadow of a great public servant. He struggled to explain what he would accomplish in a second term. He struggled to respond to Mr. Trump’s provocations. He struggled to hold Mr. Trump accountable for his lies, his failures and his chilling plans. More than once, he struggled to make it to the end of a sentence. > **[Opinion | To Serve His Country, President Biden Should Leave the Race](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/28/opinion/biden-election-debate-trump.html)** > > The president’s inadequate performance in the debate made it clear he is not the man he was four years ago. ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2024, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-v-trump-june-27-debate-live-debate-comment-here/1003332/749 "2024-06-29T03:24:24Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > I’d go with Harris but some think she’d be a weak candidate. I seem to recall some strong performances by her in the 2020 primaries. She was my favorite then. Half the reason I was so enthusiastic for Biden to win (besides showing tRump the door) was she was his running mate. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2024, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-v-trump-june-27-debate-live-debate-comment-here/1003332/750 "2024-06-29T03:25:34Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > The New York Times editorial board just called for him to withdraw from the race That’s nice. Barack Obama called for him to stay in. I know who I trust more. > ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2024, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-v-trump-june-27-debate-live-debate-comment-here/1003332/751 "2024-06-29T03:58:30Z")
obviously Joe opened the door wiiiiiide for any future “Joe Biden suffers from advanced dementia” jabs from the Trump team. so I guess we will see that angle being pushed even more over the next few months. another sidenote: I am surprised how “helpless” Biden seemed vs. the Trump steamroller-lies-express - did they not do 10+ simulation debates with him where a coach would simulate Trump and his demeanor - and develop defense strategies for that? - … how can he miss looking into the cameras? thats media 101, first week - that ending statement was so improvised (from both) - that really surprised me that neither of them had a half-decent “elevator-pitch” prepared to drive home their main 3-4 talking points. - Biden also was way too numerical in many instances … sentences like (made up here) We increased our border spending by 38% from 33 billion to 43 billion frin october 2020 to december 2022 … sorry - stuff like that does not stick. He should have been way more narrative (_Strong men come up to me with tears in their eyes, thanking me for stopping imigration en rio-grande county or allowing their raped children an abortion … blablabla_) ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2024, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-v-trump-june-27-debate-live-debate-comment-here/1003332/752 "2024-06-29T04:05:03Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > It’s only “amazing” if one insists on spinning him going off to talk to a parachutist while waiting for the photo op to happen as “not knowing what is going on”. Other people might call it “taking an interest”. > > As pointed out, yes, Biden is showing his age in a lot of ways. That doesn’t mean he’s the shuffling and vacant dementia patient you keep insinuating he is. I’ve never said he has dementia but that was a “look, something shiny” moment that required someone to get him back on track. I remember when he was a Senator and the difference is considerable. ---
**Author:** ![aurora\_maire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aurora_maire/32/328_2.png) [@aurora\_maire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aurora_maire)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2024, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-v-trump-june-27-debate-live-debate-comment-here/1003332/753 "2024-06-29T05:12:46Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > I’m talking about the less-engaged voters, the voters who don’t follow political news, the voters who haven’t yet decided between Trump and Biden. > > In other words, the people who will _never see the Raleigh rally_ or any other rally or any upcoming speeches Biden gives to labor groups or any upcoming press conferences. They won’t see those things because they’re not very engaged with the news. I came across a YouTube video today of a couple reactors I’ve seen before watching and discussing the debate as it went along. They are young men probably in their late 20s, early 30s. They admitted that they don’t follow politics at all and had never seen either man make a speech. One of the first things they said about Biden was that he didn’t completely answer some questions and can be vague. They didn’t seem to notice that Trump never answered questions but just went into talking points about other things. Some of which they “had heard stuff about” (babies being killed after birth and immigrants living in luxury hotels). Since they had heard about those things, they were probably true. When Biden talked about Trump calling soldiers suckers and losers and he denied it, they said you can’t really know if he said that and why would he - that would be a stupid thing for a president to say. I quit watching at that point. They were absolutely unaware of any of Biden’s accomplishments or that Trump is a lying liar who lies. And they were falling for the lies. I hope they do some research on their own but this could be the only thing they base their vote on. That’s horrifying. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2024, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-v-trump-june-27-debate-live-debate-comment-here/1003332/754 "2024-06-29T10:54:46Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > No thought involved. Nothing to memorize. He just has to read. > [@Magiver](#): > > What makes you think they were spontaneous? You don’t think he was prepped with some zingers? Something better than “Lying dog-faced pony soldier”? Seriously, how stupid do you think his writers and prep team are? In the SOTU all he had to do was read the prompts and memorize a few zingers. Do make up your mind. > [@Sherrerd](#): > > It’s not necessary that people see Biden as a shuffling and vacant dementia patient, in order to decide against voting for him. I agree. I’m just pointing out that “showing signs of age” and “a shambling, absent wreck” are not the same thing. > [@Magiver](#): > > I’ve never said he has dementia but that was a “look, something shiny” moment that required someone to get him back on track. I remember when he was a Senator and the difference is considerable. Oh look - you’re doing it again. Yes, he’s slower in thought and action. But your “look, something shiny” spin is entirely subjective. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2024, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-v-trump-june-27-debate-live-debate-comment-here/1003332/755 "2024-06-29T13:55:53Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > The New York Times editorial board just called for him to withdraw from the race The Economist also. Pretty sad times. I know some here will paint me as a hater or whatever, but we’re in deep shit here. Yeah, he probably should stand down. > **[Joe Biden should now give way to an alternative candidate](https://www.economist.com/leaders/2024/06/28/joe-biden-should-now-give-way-to-an-alternative-candidate)** > > His last and greatest political act would help rescue America from an emergency ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2024, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-v-trump-june-27-debate-live-debate-comment-here/1003332/756 "2024-06-29T15:30:37Z")
But the obvious alternative is Harris–and she has polled weaker against Trump than Biden [because of racism, sexism, and being too liberal]. ---
**Author:** ![Win\_Place\_Show](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/win_place_show/32/13469_2.png) [@Win\_Place\_Show](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Win_Place_Show)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2024, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-v-trump-june-27-debate-live-debate-comment-here/1003332/757 "2024-06-29T16:19:30Z")
Not that we could ever be so lucky, but posing the hypothetical that in a couple of weeks, Trump gets sentenced to a year in prison - does President Biden then step aside, or does he press forward? (Please note I’m not looking to litigate the range of possible punishments to come in the July 11th sentencing - plenty of other threads for that - just curious how “married to the idea of re-election” you think President Biden is). ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2024, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-v-trump-june-27-debate-live-debate-comment-here/1003332/758 "2024-06-29T16:26:00Z")
> [@Al128](#): > > Biden also was way too numerical in many instances Agreeing to a “no notes” rule was a bad decision – having notes doesn’t particularly benefit Trump, who just pulls stuff out of his fat ass, but it is quite beneficial to someone who actually intends to make fact-based arguments. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2024, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-v-trump-june-27-debate-live-debate-comment-here/1003332/759 "2024-06-29T19:44:02Z")
The team that prepared Biden for the debate seem to have made many basic errors, and been so eager for the debate that they did not negotiate reasonable conditions for their candidate. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2024, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-v-trump-june-27-debate-live-debate-comment-here/1003332/760 "2024-06-29T19:52:45Z")
My goodness, yes. Did NO ONE suggest to him that actually looking into the camera–communicating with the American people–might be a good idea? Did someone suggest it, and he replied '_no, I feel it’s important to look into the eyes of the person who asked me the question and nowhere else’_—?? If so, shouldn’t someone have said ‘this is about letting the American people know where you stand–shouldn’t you address them directly?’ Such a basic rule of communication. And they couldn’t make it happen. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-v-trump-june-27-debate-live-debate-comment-here/1003332.md?page=37) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-v-trump-june-27-debate-live-debate-comment-here/1003332.md?page=39)