# Biden, Wife-Beating and "Rule of Thumb" **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 4, 2020, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-wife-beating-and-rule-of-thumb/845922 "2020-01-04T05:56:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-wife-beating-and-rule-of-thumb/845922/21 "2020-01-04T16:18:13Z")
Without the full context of how he came to (mis)attribute the phrase “Rule of Thumb”, I have a hard time understanding why this is supposed to upset me beyond “Biden got a widely repeated factoid wrong”. What exactly is anyone supposed to be defending? ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-wife-beating-and-rule-of-thumb/845922/22 "2020-01-04T16:23:27Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > 😕 You’re kidding, right? > > [It wasn’t until 1977 that Oregon passed the first law in the country declaring that it was even possible for a husband to RAPE his cohabitating wife.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marital_rape_in_the_United_States) It took until 1993 before all fifty states had such laws on the books. C’mon, who you gonna believe, Wikipedia or **UltraVires** , a genuine lawyer? ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-wife-beating-and-rule-of-thumb/845922/23 "2020-01-04T16:30:24Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > 😕 You’re kidding, right? > > [It wasn’t until 1977 that Oregon passed the first law in the country declaring that it was even possible for a husband to RAPE his cohabitating wife.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marital_rape_in_the_United_States) It took until 1993 before all fifty states had such laws on the books. Three or four years ago a well-known lawyer was apparently unaware of the current laws on marital rape. ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-wife-beating-and-rule-of-thumb/845922/24 "2020-01-04T16:39:34Z")
Is the op suggesting that domestic violence is a modern phenomenon? ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-wife-beating-and-rule-of-thumb/845922/25 "2020-01-04T16:50:51Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > That’s simply an absolute lie. It has not been acceptable in our society for at least 300 years even to lay a hand on your wife. Ahistorical bullshit. [I Love Lucy - Lucy’s Spankings](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Qup9lOPQfg) ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-wife-beating-and-rule-of-thumb/845922/26 "2020-01-04T17:26:41Z")
**UltraVires** , this was your your opinion of pinning a woman down and placing a hand over her mouth to stifle cries to the point where the woman feared for her life due to smothering. > [@Can Democrats actually stop the nomination of Brett Kavanaugh?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3195): > > Right. In 1982, that was called “trying to get laid.” In 2018 it is sexual assault. I’m not endorsing it, but in the interests of having an open conversation on a message board, let’s not just attack people and debate the merits. It is absolutely bonkers that you are now suggesting that the past was not more dangerous for women to be on the receiving end of violence at the hands of men. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-wife-beating-and-rule-of-thumb/845922/27 "2020-01-04T17:54:59Z")
I never said he was a GOOD lawyer. [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=862652](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=862652) ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-wife-beating-and-rule-of-thumb/845922/28 "2020-01-04T18:48:03Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > It is not simply the “Rule of Thumb” misquote. It is bad enough that he cannot check a claim that has been debunked for twenty-five years. > > My problem is his whole spiel. That our culture allowed untold amounts of spousal murder and the response of judges was to introduce a rule that you could only beat your wife a little but not a lot with the implication that this heritage has stayed with us today and why fighting domestic abuse is so hard. > > That’s simply an absolute lie. It has not been acceptable in our society for at least 300 years even to lay a hand on your wife. No decent person beats their wife. Seriously, do you actually believe this? [The judge sympathized with the man](https://www.nytimes.com/1994/10/19/us/punishment-is-18-months-for-killing-cheating-wife.html)and said, “I seriously wonder how many men married four, five years, who would have had the strength to walk away without administering a little corporal punishment…” [A battered woman in this country has an almost 50/50 chance of summoning another abuser to her door if she calls the police for help.](https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/09/police-officers-who-hit-their-wives-or-girlfriends/380329/) The police skew very heavily to white, male, conservative. Wife beating and rape have a lot of similarities and rape is often part of domestic violence. ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-wife-beating-and-rule-of-thumb/845922/29 "2020-01-04T18:57:41Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I don’t buy this uncited claim. In my reading, abuse of women has been largely tolerated (and even sometimes encouraged!) for most of history up into recent times. Yeah, it used to be called, “What did you do to piss him off?” I always recommend _Next Time She’ll Be Dead,_ by Ann Jones; _Why Does He Do That?_ by Lundy Bancroft----a guy who used to work with wife beaters and has no time for excuses; _Women Who Kill_, also by Ann Jones, which details the tropes that still influence people today; and, well, I have _lists._ It’s very frustrating when people bring up some old trope like this and they don’t know or care that it’s three or four hundred years old. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-wife-beating-and-rule-of-thumb/845922/30 "2020-01-04T19:03:51Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > I never said he was a GOOD lawyer. > > [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=862652](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=862652) That’ll earn you a warning drop. Please don’t insult other posters. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-wife-beating-and-rule-of-thumb/845922/31 "2020-01-04T19:08:51Z")
I don’t think the actual gripe here is whether domestic violence is OK or not (it’s not okay,) but rather that Biden is promoting a clearly debunked falsehood. And Snopes also went easy on him. It’s akin to someone telling an audience that the human brain is an amazing organ (it is indeed,) but then citing the false “we only use 10% of our brains” myth in his speech. Just tell the truth and truth alone. ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-wife-beating-and-rule-of-thumb/845922/32 "2020-01-04T19:13:04Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Sorry, link: > > [Despite Deceptive Video, Biden Spoke About Violence Against Women, Not White Nationalism | Snopes.com](https://www.snopes.com/news/2020/01/03/biden-video-culture/) > > And Snopes, that unbiased fact checker, let him off the hook with this one sentence: > > That’s not “likely” an “etymological myth.” It is certainly one and has been debunked over and over again including by Snopes itself. “A woman, a dog, and a walnut tree: the mire you beat, the better they be.” That’s an English and Welsh proverb that I’ve seen quoted in regard to King John’s reign in England. In Fulgham v.Alabama, 1871, the judge refers to the “ancient privilege” of beating wives “with a stick”, “choke her” and other things, which are actually rather mild if you look at cases like Joel Steinberg or Tracey Thurman, whose husband attacked her in front of police----who did nothing----and after she was on a stretcher in an ambulance. Only when the paramedics complain did the cops bestirr themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-wife-beating-and-rule-of-thumb/845922/33 "2020-01-04T19:34:19Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I don’t think the actual gripe here is whether domestic violence is OK or not (it’s not okay,) but rather that Biden is promoting a clearly debunked falsehood. I think the OP knows what his own gripe is better than you, and he disagrees. It’s not just that Biden said something stupid, it’s dangerous. His support for that ‘danger’ is that domestic violence hasn’t been a problem for 300 years. It’s that ahistorical bullshit that is getting pushback. No one is supporting Biden spreading debunked myths. > [@UltraVires](#): > > It is very dangerous, especially given that he should know better, as it militarizes groups against society on a falsehood. > [@UltraVires](#): > > It is not about being stupid or idiotic. It is actively misleading and dangerous. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-wife-beating-and-rule-of-thumb/845922/34 "2020-01-04T19:37:25Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > It’s not just that Biden said something stupid, it’s dangerous. His support for that ‘danger’ is that domestic violence hasn’t been a problem for 300 years. Is there greater context? Because I don’t get that from the quote in the OP at all. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-wife-beating-and-rule-of-thumb/845922/35 "2020-01-04T19:40:26Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Is there greater context? Because I don’t get that from the quote in the OP at all. There is. His other posts in this thread. Which I quoted and linked to. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-wife-beating-and-rule-of-thumb/845922/36 "2020-01-04T19:47:18Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > There is. His other posts in this thread. Which I quoted and linked to. My mistake. I misread your post as “It’s not just that Biden said something stupid, it’s dangerous. [Biden’s] support for that ‘danger’ is that domestic violence hasn’t been a problem for 300 years.” That’s on me; you were clear and I was just distracted or something. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-wife-beating-and-rule-of-thumb/845922/37 "2020-01-04T19:55:02Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > That’ll earn you a warning drop. Please don’t insult other posters. it’s a fair cop. I was going to delete it but it was too late to edit. Sorry for being a jerk, **UltraVires**. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-wife-beating-and-rule-of-thumb/845922/38 "2020-01-04T20:34:22Z")
> [@Joe Biden](#): > > [We choose truth over facts](https://www.foxnews.com/politics/bidens-iowa-state-fair-gaffe-candidate-accidentally-says-we-choose-truth-over-facts)! This is just more of the same. He was just getting us all prepared for the increase in domestic abuse that happens on Super Bowl Sunday. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-wife-beating-and-rule-of-thumb/845922/39 "2020-01-04T20:43:12Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > This is just more of the same. > > He was just getting us all prepared for the increase in domestic abuse that happens on Super Bowl Sunday. > > Regards, > Shodan Fox News? No. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-wife-beating-and-rule-of-thumb/845922/40 "2020-01-04T21:01:17Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Horseshit. Murder is in the Code of Hummurabi. It was around before the 12th century and also before the 12th Century BC. > > Murder, theft and rape are unlawful in pretty much every organized society going on since humans became settled folks. > **[The Sexual Assault Case That Shook Ancient Rome](https://www.narratively.com/p/when-metoo-came-to-ancient-rome)** > > A prominent politician was accused of raping a 12-year-old actress—in 54 B.C. The way his legendary lawyer dismissed it speaks volumes about how we prosecute these crimes now. I guess Hammurabi didn’t have jurisdiction in ancient Rome, where one’s lawyer wouldn’t even bother to deny a rape if it was perpetrated against someone of low station. I realize that has little to do with Biden or 13th century England, I am just feeling nitpicky. Just because someone inscribed some rules of conduct into clay centuries ago does not mean violence has not historically been a major threat. Hell, less than 20 years ago my own family thought it was ok to assault ME for no reason whatsoever. I guess my gripe is that if you are not a woman or gay, you are basically on your own if your number comes up on the Violence Wheel of Fortune. Which still has little to do with Biden or 13th century England. I guess I’d say that even if Biden’s anecdote is false, the idea that one could get away with all kinds of things long ago rings true to me. I would argue that little has changed. OP, have you ever been a non-religious victim in a Bible-beater environment and witnessed first hand the absolute zero support you get? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-wife-beating-and-rule-of-thumb/845922.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/biden-wife-beating-and-rule-of-thumb/845922.md?page=3)