# Biden's choice for vice presidential candidate **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [April 10, 2020, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bidens-choice-for-vice-presidential-candidate/851505 "2020-04-10T15:04:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 42
**Author:** ![Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulf_the_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2020, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bidens-choice-for-vice-presidential-candidate/851505/823 "2020-08-11T22:22:40Z")
You’re right about that. Not sure how he would rationalize Abrams’s ambition. Maybe I’ll ask him! ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2020, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bidens-choice-for-vice-presidential-candidate/851505/824 "2020-08-11T22:40:26Z")
> [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](#): > > It’s not at all clear that disapproval of the VP candidate has mattered much in the downfall of Democratic tickets. The selection of Tim Kaine, if it had anything to do at all with Clinton’s loss, was about the 3,457th thing on the list of what doomed the ticket. John Edwards may not have done anything to help the Kerry candidacy, but he didn’t do anything (at the time) to hurt it either. Joe Lieberman? Maybe. Lloyd Bentsen? Nah. Walter Mondale didn;t lose 49 states because he picked Geraldine Ferraro. Tearing down the president is one thing; disliking the VP is something very different. VPs don’t have that kind of leverage. While this is probably true, we can eliminate several of these cases as being irrelevant because the election was so lopsided it would not have mattered if the Genie from “Aladdin” had been the running mate; I don’t think I have any doubt that Dan Quayle cost the GOP votes against Lloyd Bentsen, but that just meant they lost by 315 electoral votes instead of 325. It’s actually possible Joe Lieberman cost Gore the election. It’s possible Kaine cost Clinton the election. We don’t know because we cannot run those elections again with different candidates, but it’s entirely conceivable that in a close election, it matters. This will be a close election. I know Biden is up by eight or nine points, but you must build it two adjustments: 1. The Republicans cheat. Voter suppression, and likely Federal armed intimidation, will cost them a lot of votes. Take 2-3 points off right there. 2. The electoral vote map favors Trump. Take 2-3 points off right there. Biden is actually just barely ahead, and Harris’s performance will matter. And I hate to say it, but Harris being a woman will cost them a point or two, because, well, we’re seeing it already; “oh, she’s too AMBITIOUS.” People don’t say that about men, certainly not 1/100th as much. It’s sexist rationalization. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2020, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bidens-choice-for-vice-presidential-candidate/851505/825 "2020-08-11T22:42:38Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > … I would also argue that if Clinton picked who she initially wanted (Sherrod Brown), she may be President right now. I buy that argument … because it would have signaled both that she took rural voters and their concerns seriously while also giving a solid nod to the progressive wing. Harris won’t excite young progressives. She won’t repel them either. She won’t excite GOP base turnout against her either. What rubbed me the wrong way about her was a sense of inauthenticity, trying to rebrand herself by the week according the whims of her marketing team. Not such an issue as VP. For that she’s fine and she could do the job if called to do so by events. Then she’d run as an incumbent based on the job she did. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2020, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bidens-choice-for-vice-presidential-candidate/851505/826 "2020-08-11T22:44:42Z")
How long before Trump starts howling for her birth certificate, do we think? ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2020, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bidens-choice-for-vice-presidential-candidate/851505/827 "2020-08-11T22:48:47Z")
Male politicians are rarely thought to be too ambitious, though this word correctly describes Harris. What does she believe? Here is a summary from Politico. I think a candidate that would appeal to younger progressives would not be establishment enough for Joe. Some would consider this a weakness. It’s a mixed bag. Trump has surprised before. > **[What Kamala Harris believes: Key issues, policy positions and votes](https://www.politico.com/news/2020/08/11/what-kamala-harris-believes-key-issues-positions-and-votes-393807)** > > Inside the Democratic vice presidential pick's record on health care, immigration and more. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2020, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bidens-choice-for-vice-presidential-candidate/851505/828 "2020-08-11T22:50:50Z")
You know, I would care a lot more about attracting young voters if young voters actually voted. Until they do no sane national politician can afford to cater to them. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2020, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bidens-choice-for-vice-presidential-candidate/851505/829 "2020-08-11T22:52:49Z")
I have gone on record about being meh-ish about Harris. But I wish Trump would go there! There is no doubt in my mind that Harris will tear Trump a new one if he says anything about her background. I would pay good money to watch that smackdown. I wouldn’t put it past Trump to do this, though. Desperate people will do desperate things. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2020, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bidens-choice-for-vice-presidential-candidate/851505/830 "2020-08-11T22:53:52Z")
A few phrases keep emerging here in the last few dozen posts… - Not my first choice - Checks a lot of boxes - Rubs me the wrong way I certainly hope these thoughts wont keep people from voting Biden/Harris come election day. Whatever warts the ticket has, it’s orders of magnitude better than what we have presently in the White House. We definitely SHOULD take a page from the Republican campaign playbook: **Democrats fall in love. Republicans fall in line.** We need to fall in line this time. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2020, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bidens-choice-for-vice-presidential-candidate/851505/831 "2020-08-11T22:54:32Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > Oooooooo, licking my chops at the prospect of Harris disassembling Pence in their debate. He’ll be crying for Mother when she’s done with him. I think this is very unlikely. I’m watching, right now, Pence’s speech in Arizona. And I have to say - and I’m saying this as someone who DESPISES Pence - he’s probably the best Republican political speaker that I’ve ever seen in my life. (I’m 34, so I do not have memories of Reagan.) As a speaker/apologist for right-wing talking points, Pence is everything that Trump isn’t - very articulate, composed, icy-cold when he wants to be, and authoritative. I do not expect anyone to demolish him in a debate. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2020, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bidens-choice-for-vice-presidential-candidate/851505/832 "2020-08-11T22:57:39Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > You know, I would care a lot more about attracting young voters if young voters actually voted. > > Until they do no sane national politician can afford to cater to them. Sadly, this is an excellent point. It’s like the old joke about Brazil - It’s the country of the future and it always will be.\* No one has ever gotten anywhere relying on the youth vote. \*Except in L. Sprague de Camp’s science fiction. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2020, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bidens-choice-for-vice-presidential-candidate/851505/833 "2020-08-11T22:58:46Z")
This might mean a great deal, actually. That makes me happy. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2020, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bidens-choice-for-vice-presidential-candidate/851505/834 "2020-08-11T22:59:27Z")
The VP choice can be as important as the Presidential choice. When McCain ran against Obama I could have voted either way. It would have taken some work deciding. Then I looked at Palin, and immediately decided to vote for Obama. 1992 was the only time I’ve ever voted third party. I thought Perot was a good choice, but when I watched the VP debate, between Gore, Quayle, and Stockdale, I liked the way the latter could give short and to the point answers, with no doubt as to where he stood. ---
**Author:** ![Kimera757](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kimera757/32/3765_2.png) [@Kimera757](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimera757)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2020, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bidens-choice-for-vice-presidential-candidate/851505/835 "2020-08-11T23:02:32Z")
> [@barkodogo](#): > > I guess she’s a good foil for the “law and order” call by the right, but her and Biden’s “tough on crime” records don’t sit well with the left. Literally every possible choice has weaknesses. A more left wing candidate would have weaknesses too (just different ones). I was worried Biden would choose Karen Bass; she has problematic statements about Fidel Castro and so forth (sort of like Jeremy Corbyn). ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2020, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bidens-choice-for-vice-presidential-candidate/851505/836 "2020-08-11T23:06:04Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I wish Trump would go there! There is no doubt in my mind that Harris will tear Trump a new one if he says anything about her background. I would pay good money to watch that smackdown. I so agree with that! The situation puts me in mind of the Gary Larson cartoon\* where the dog hopes the cat will enter the washing machine labeled “cat fud.” \*Link: [https://www.google.com/search?q=Gary+Larson+cartoon+dog+cat+washing+machine+oh+please&lr=&hl=en&as\_qdr=all&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=w0TIqdb5Y0q\_XM%252Cjf9MnV48kooM1M%252C\_&vet=1&usg=AI4\_-kTUxWDL4ULrCyqsS7YYKNKTsylagA&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjjjfezoZTrAhVEMn0KHUP5DbQQ9QEwAHoECAoQDg&biw=1340&bih=789#imgrc=UpCM2s5rx03WbM](https://www.google.com/search?q=Gary+Larson+cartoon+dog+cat+washing+machine+oh+please&lr=&hl=en&as_qdr=all&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=w0TIqdb5Y0q_XM%252Cjf9MnV48kooM1M%252C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kTUxWDL4ULrCyqsS7YYKNKTsylagA&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjjjfezoZTrAhVEMn0KHUP5DbQQ9QEwAHoECAoQDg&biw=1340&bih=789#imgrc=UpCM2s5rx03WbM) ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2020, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bidens-choice-for-vice-presidential-candidate/851505/837 "2020-08-11T23:06:15Z")
I just looked up Dougles Emhoff, who is Harris’ husband. He is white and Jewish. Guaranteed to offend a fine selection of the worst people! ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2020, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bidens-choice-for-vice-presidential-candidate/851505/838 "2020-08-11T23:14:53Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > > [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > > > Oooooooo, licking my chops at the prospect of Harris disassembling Pence in their debate. He’ll be crying for Mother when she’s done with him. > > Never fear, Mother will be there. Harris is a woman, so Pence would not dare be seen with her unless Mother was there to chaperone. Of course the issue of chaperonage won’t arise if Trump, as some speculate, dumps Pence in favor of Nikki Haley. (A development that seems more plausible to me than his dumping Pence for Ivanka.) . . . One interesting aspect of the Biden/Harris ticket: it is less elitist, one might say, than we’ve seen in 36 years. Neither candidate attended an Ivy League college–and the last time that happened was in 1984: > [@](#): > > …Biden went to the University of Delaware for undergrad, before going to law school at Syracuse University. Harris went to Howard University in Washington, DC, for undergrad before earning a law degree from the University of California, Hastings. As an alumna of Howard, Harris will also be the first graduate of historically black colleges and universities to be on a major party ticket. … > **[Biden tapping Kamala Harris to be his VP means the Democratic ticket does not...](https://www.businessinsider.com/biden-harris-first-democratic-candidates-1984-not-ivy-league-grads-2020-8)** > > As an alumna of Howard University, Harris will be the first graduate of historically black colleges and universities to be on a major party ticket. The Democrats could benefit from highlighting this. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2020, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bidens-choice-for-vice-presidential-candidate/851505/839 "2020-08-11T23:15:51Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > Even if I didn’t already know this, I could tell you’re not a progressive XT 😆. Because man, many progressives do not care for Harris and she’s not one herself. I was really confused by those comments and thought I was living in bizarro world, because she is not by any stretch of the imagination a progressive that I’ve noticed. It seems to be the progressives that most dislike her. The middle-of-the-road Democrats I know actually like her as a pick, and my more leftist friends are pissed off at her as a pick. She is a safe, boring (but probably good in the long run) middle-of-the-road pick. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2020, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bidens-choice-for-vice-presidential-candidate/851505/840 "2020-08-11T23:25:11Z")
> [@Lamoral](#): > > As a speaker/apologist for right-wing talking points, Pence is everything that Trump isn’t - very articulate, composed, icy-cold when he wants to be, and authoritative. I do not expect anyone to demolish him in a debate. Haven’t seen him under pressure, eh? He’s fine with a teleprompter. Not so much at thinking on his feet. Harris will steal his lunch money and send him home to Mother with snot running down his nose. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2020, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bidens-choice-for-vice-presidential-candidate/851505/841 "2020-08-11T23:29:13Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > But I wish Trump would go there! There is no doubt in my mind that Harris will tear Trump a new one if he says anything about her background. I would pay good money to watch that smackdown. I am on record in this thread as saying Harris is the killer Biden needs to win this nasty contest. She will do it within the law, and she will do it with finesse – and she will help Biden win. I hope Trump goes there, too. I love ambitious women. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulf_the_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2020, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bidens-choice-for-vice-presidential-candidate/851505/842 "2020-08-11T23:31:22Z")
Right, we don’t know what the effect of the VP candidate is. It’s possible that Kaine did cost Clinton the '16 election. It’s also possible that Kaine was what pulled her over the finish line in VA, MN, NM, NH, and CO and provided the plurality of votes that allowed her to win the popular vote. Perhaps, with someone else on the ticket, she would’ve gotten crushed. You;re right; we don’t know. But when I think of the '16 election and what went wrong, Kaine is very very low on the totem pole, if he appears there at all. I think of James Comey’s late-breaking announcement; I think of the fallout from Benghazi; I think of Clinton’s decision not to go to WI, not to make sure her ground game in PA was up to speed, not to concentrate on MI but focus on GA and AZ instead. I think of the fallout from Sanders not supporting her till the convention. I think of her inability to get younger voters to the polls. Kaine doesn’t register. And my political chops are as an eager reader and as a low-level grunt on political campaigns. How about people who do these things for a living? Well, they focus on the same things. Have you ever read an article that says that Kaine was Clinton’s downfall? That choosing Paul Ryan is what did Mitt Romney in? That Edwards was the main reason why John Kerry lost? There might be a couple about Lieberman and Gore. There certainly were for Palin and McCain. But these are the exception. As I say, no one I’ve canvassed has ever said they were voting the way they were because of the VP. In most cases there just seem to be so many more important things. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bidens-choice-for-vice-presidential-candidate/851505.md?page=41) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bidens-choice-for-vice-presidential-candidate/851505.md?page=43)