# Biden's damage to foreign affairs **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 7, 2021, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bidens-damage-to-foreign-affairs/950202 "2021-09-07T03:19:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2021, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bidens-damage-to-foreign-affairs/950202/42 "2021-09-07T08:53:05Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > “America has just signalled to the world that they are not that keen on playing a global role,” the minister said. “The implications of that are absolutely huge. We need to get the integrated review out and reread it. We are going to have to do a hard-nosed revisit on all our assumptions and policies. > > “The US had to be dragged kicking and screaming into the First World War. They turned up late for the Second World War and now they are cutting and running in Afghanistan.” Country that withdrew all military forces from Afghanistan seven years ago says what? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2021, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bidens-damage-to-foreign-affairs/950202/43 "2021-09-07T09:26:15Z")
Yes, some of our allies wanted us to stay in Afghanistan longer. They were wrong. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2021, 9:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bidens-damage-to-foreign-affairs/950202/44 "2021-09-07T09:41:03Z")
And Im sure that you and Smapti will have the integrity to admit that Trump was right. Right? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2021, 9:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bidens-damage-to-foreign-affairs/950202/45 "2021-09-07T09:47:18Z")
To leave Afghanistan? Absolutely. Though he didn’t have the balls to actually leave Afghanistan. He talked about it, and that was good. And he made an agreement to leave (some of the specifics of the agreement might have been dumb, but overall I’ll take any agreement that gets us out). But it took Biden to actually, finally, do it. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2021, 9:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bidens-damage-to-foreign-affairs/950202/46 "2021-09-07T09:50:18Z")
And do it in a way that was more incompetent than Trump. No consultation with allies, ghosting them instead and leaving thousands of people at risk of being killed. A real success story for his Presidency. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2021, 9:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bidens-damage-to-foreign-affairs/950202/47 "2021-09-07T09:52:14Z")
Bullshit. The biggest airlift in history. A single successful bombing attack and that’s it. And we’re finally, completely out. There’s no way we could have gotten out without chaos. This was about as good as a withdrawal can possibly be. All the suggestions about how this could have been executed better likely would have lead to more death and chaos, not less. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2021, 9:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bidens-damage-to-foreign-affairs/950202/48 "2021-09-07T09:54:38Z")
I’m sure a Trump-led withdrawal would have been just as successful as the troop withdrawal from Syria was. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2021, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bidens-damage-to-foreign-affairs/950202/49 "2021-09-07T09:56:15Z")
The deaths havent even really begun. What a silly myopic take. This was a NATO operation in Afghanistan and an American withdrawal. Our European allies know it and the voters here know it. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2021, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bidens-damage-to-foreign-affairs/950202/50 "2021-09-07T09:56:47Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > This was a NATO operation in Afghanistan and an American withdrawal. Our European allies know it and the voters here know it. Our European allies all withdrew before we did. > **[Resolute Support Mission | Contributing nations](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resolute_Support_Mission#Contributing_nations)** > > In 2019, the forces that contributed to the mission were 8,475 Americans that trained and helped Afghan forces, approximately 5,500 Americans engaged in counter-terrorism missions, 8,673 allied soldiers and 27,000 military contractors. > A new type of U.S. unit, the Security Force Assistance Brigades, deployed to Afghanistan in February 2018 to support the mission. > The United Kingdom announced in July 2018 that it sent 440 more British personnel to Afghanistan. Around half of the additional perso... ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2021, 9:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bidens-damage-to-foreign-affairs/950202/51 "2021-09-07T09:57:59Z")
Yes! And we’re finally out of this incredibly stupid war in which we accomplished absolutely nothing. Thank God no more Americans will die for nothing. No more money wasted for nothing. We accomplished nothing in 20 years and our exit was long overdue. The warmongers are sad we’re gone, and when warmongers are sad, that’s a good sign of a good decision. Death and chaos may continue (as they did for 20 years while we were there), but at least we’ll be out of it. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2021, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bidens-damage-to-foreign-affairs/950202/52 "2021-09-07T10:02:35Z")
Im glad you think that driving Al Queda out of Afghanistan was nothing. Im glad you think that spending money to benefit the education of Afghani girls was nothing. Oddly, those warmongers you mention were acting after 9/11. They are sad that the blood they shed trying to make Afghanistan a better place was wasted. Oh, and if terrorism pops up there again we will likely be back in. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2021, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bidens-damage-to-foreign-affairs/950202/53 "2021-09-07T10:04:27Z")
[https://www.army.mod.uk/deployments/afghanistan/](https://www.army.mod.uk/deployments/afghanistan/) it looks like the British didnt pull out, did they? They shifted their focus to try to make Afghanistan a better place. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2021, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bidens-damage-to-foreign-affairs/950202/54 "2021-09-07T10:07:06Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > m glad you think that driving Al Queda out of Afghanistan was nothing. It took 2 months to drive al-Qaeda out of Afghanistan. What was the point of the subsequent 19 years and eight months? > [@](#): > > Im glad you think that spending money to benefit the education of Afghani girls was nothing. We could be spending money to benefit the education of American girls, you know. “The white man’s burden” is not and should not be the basis of American foreign policy. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2021, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bidens-damage-to-foreign-affairs/950202/55 "2021-09-07T10:07:10Z")
> **[Disbelief and betrayal: Europe reacts to Biden’s Afghanistan ‘miscalculation’](https://www.politico.eu/article/europe-reacts-bidens-afghanistan-withdrawal/)** > > ‘This does fundamental damage to the political and moral credibility of the West,’ says senior German lawmaker. Bidens miscalculation over Afghanistan will have worse longterm effects than our military action in Afghanistan itself. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2021, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bidens-damage-to-foreign-affairs/950202/56 "2021-09-07T10:07:50Z")
Yes, I think those things were basically nothing. Temporary fluff that, in the scheme of things, didn’t make a difference at all, and such temporary fluff certainly wasn’t worth the thousands of lives it cost. The media, generals, and politicians were lying to each other and to us for many years. We accomplished nothing, and I’m so glad it’s finally over. Those lying leaders are still pissed they’ve lost their forever war (as you can see in bullshit access stories like that Politico crap story). But they’re lying warmongers, and I couldn’t care less about the opinions of lying warmongers. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2021, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bidens-damage-to-foreign-affairs/950202/57 "2021-09-07T10:08:09Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > > [@Bootb](#): > > > > And then came along the ignominious, shambolic exit from Afghanistan. Apparently, Biden has a highly selective definition of what it means to be an ally. > > Again, this is not remotely true. The people making these arguments don’t know what the hell they’re talking about. At best they’re speaking with a ton of hindsight bias, and even then don’t actually have a different, better plan, not with knowing ahead of time what was going to happen. > > , > > There is nothing in this article that seems to describe something that Biden did wrong. It does not have a strategy that would actually be better than what actually happened. And it very much overstates how other countries feel about the US in regards to this. It makes way too many leaps in logic to come to its conclusion. > > Almost like it started with the conclusion, and then used the facts to fit it. True, but it fits into an easily digestible narrative that Republicans, Trumpists and other conservatives can buy into. Did Biden put up a big “Mission Accomplished!” banner on an aircraft carrier? Did Biden send a bunch of “mean tweets” to the Taliban or world leaders reminding them of how great America is? I think it’s pretty obvious there was a lot of things Biden could have done to make the Afghanistan withdrawal better. It’s been almost a week now and I barely see Afghanistan in the news anymore. > [@madsircool](#): > > “The US had to be dragged kicking and screaming into the First World War. They turned up late for the Second World War and now they are cutting and running in Afghanistan.” [/quote] I would prefer Tony Blair just say “You’re welcome, America!”, ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2021, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bidens-damage-to-foreign-affairs/950202/58 "2021-09-07T10:08:10Z")
We wanted to make sure they didnt return. We could have also educate both sets of girls. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2021, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bidens-damage-to-foreign-affairs/950202/59 "2021-09-07T10:10:10Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > We wanted to make sure they didnt return. And how long, in your estimation, would that have taken? Another year? 10 years? 20 years? 100? How long would you have had us be Kabul’s suzerain until it magically turned into a westernized secular democracy with universal civil rights? ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2021, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bidens-damage-to-foreign-affairs/950202/60 "2021-09-07T10:10:45Z")
How long have we been in Germany, Japan and South Korea? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2021, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bidens-damage-to-foreign-affairs/950202/61 "2021-09-07T10:12:08Z")
How long has our troop presence there been predicated on making sure that the Third Reich or the Emperor don’t come back? Are there currently US forces engaged in combat with the enemy in those countries? Are we currently dictating the domestic policy of those countries or providing them air support in their battle against rebel militias? It’s almost like it’s a completely different arrangement that has nothing in common with what was going on in Afghanistan. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bidens-damage-to-foreign-affairs/950202.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bidens-damage-to-foreign-affairs/950202.md?page=4)