# Biden's damage to foreign affairs **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 7, 2021, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bidens-damage-to-foreign-affairs/950202 "2021-09-07T03:19:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Bootb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19b73/32.png) [@Bootb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootb)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2021, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bidens-damage-to-foreign-affairs/950202/102 "2021-09-08T02:21:54Z")
Evidently you didn’t read the article. There are plenty of facts cited. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2021, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bidens-damage-to-foreign-affairs/950202/103 "2021-09-08T02:25:20Z")
What evidence do you have that the withdrawal wasn’t planned? I would posit the fact the country collapsed in 11 days, means that any plan that didn’t account for that probably got fucked. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2021, 9:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bidens-damage-to-foreign-affairs/950202/104 "2021-09-08T09:47:18Z")
> [@Bootb](#): > > And that is precisely the criticism of Biden. He could have, and should have, started planning for the withdrawal long ago. At least 95% of the shambles regarding the withdrawal have come about because of either laziness or incompetence on his part This is certainly an opinion. How “long ago” should he have been planning? ---
**Author:** ![ralfy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ralfy/32/600_2.png) [@ralfy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralfy)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2021, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bidens-damage-to-foreign-affairs/950202/105 "2021-09-08T14:21:55Z")
U.S. interference in many countries has done incredible damage not only to alliances but to what the country is supposed to promote. That’s why it’s been considered a greater threat to democracy than other countries. > **[US seen as bigger threat to democracy than Russia or China, global poll finds](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/05/us-threat-democracy-russia-china-global-poll)** > > Belief in importance of democracy high in 53 sampled countries but inequality and big tech companies seen as biggest threats How can it be otherwise when some of its past leaders sees it as the biggest warmonger in the world? > **[Jimmy Carter: US 'Most Warlike Nation in History of the World'](https://www.commondreams.org/views/2019/04/18/jimmy-carter-us-most-warlike-nation-history-world)** > > Former president says peaceful China 'ahead of us in almost every way.' ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2021, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bidens-damage-to-foreign-affairs/950202/106 "2021-09-08T14:26:44Z")
I think Jimmy Carter is one of our worst Presidents and generally an idiot. Anyone who actually doesn’t think that Russia and China’s massive levels of support for foreign autocratic governments, active promotion of autocracy across the globe and etc is a bigger threat to democracy than the United States is not acquainted with the facts. This reads like a lefty screed from the 70s written by someone who grew up crying about Mossadegh and Allende. ---
**Author:** ![ralfy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ralfy/32/600_2.png) [@ralfy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralfy)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2021, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bidens-damage-to-foreign-affairs/950202/107 "2021-09-08T14:31:14Z")
Yes, especially given the Carter doctrine, but what he says is true, right? And even with Russian and Chinese support for client nations, which one has over 800 military bases and installations worldwide and has been engaged in warmongering for several decades? And which one insists that it stands for freedom and democracy? ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2021, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bidens-damage-to-foreign-affairs/950202/108 "2021-09-08T14:34:20Z")
No, what he says is in fact, not true. There’s little evidence to support the claim that it is true. The presence of an overseas military base, does not suggest anything about a country’s support or opposition for democracy. For example, I see no compelling evidence our military bases in Europe are anti-democratic, nor our bases in South Korea or Japan, or in many other countries. Waging wars does also not constitute anti-democratic behavior sans further context and elaboration. This sort of argument may have had some point back in the Cold War when we actively propped up dictatorships, and even overthrew some quasi-democratic regimes we determined were “leaning too far left”, albeit even then I think it would be difficult for us to rank higher than the USSR as “anti-democratic”. Consider that the USSR was by force holding most of the Warsaw Pact countries under its thumb in forced-anti-democratic governments. We know they were forced autocracy because the vast majority of those countries transitioned peacefully to democracies after the fall of the USSR. Also see the various SSRs that broke away and are functional democracies today, and also not to mention that as much as we propped up capitalist totalitarian regimes the USSR was propping up tons of communist autocracies globally as well. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2021, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bidens-damage-to-foreign-affairs/950202/109 "2021-09-08T14:36:11Z")
It’s going to be increasingly difficult to lead by example as our own democracy becomes increasingly flawed. Perhaps a concentrated effort in regaining a place at the top of the democracy rankings will improve our ability to positively influence the rest of the world. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2021, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bidens-damage-to-foreign-affairs/950202/110 "2021-09-08T15:10:02Z")
Right now America is demonstrating to the world that the key to a proper democracy is to enact measures that restrict voting. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2021, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bidens-damage-to-foreign-affairs/950202/111 "2021-09-08T15:14:29Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > I think Jimmy Carter is one of our worst Presidents and generally an idiot. I don’t think either of those is true (I’d put him in the bottom half but not close to the bottom 10), but that’s a separate debate. What I think is telling is that perhaps the most fundamentally decent human being to ever inhabit the office is generally considered a poor President and/or foolish. That says more about us as a nation and our foreign policy than about the man. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2021, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bidens-damage-to-foreign-affairs/950202/112 "2021-09-08T15:20:24Z")
I don’t think it says much about us as a nation. The things that made Carter a bad President primarily had to do with his poor decision making and poor aptitude for political expression. Presidents have a job to lead the country, and if they do badly at that they are considered bad Presidents. Being a “good human being”, but being bad at the job of President, doesn’t say a lot about our country, it says maybe more about the person of Jimmy Carter. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2021, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bidens-damage-to-foreign-affairs/950202/113 "2021-09-08T15:34:23Z")
I wouldn’t rate those quite as highly. Carter is generally less popular than he merited (not a great President but far from the worst), while Trump is more popular than he merited (arguably the absolute worst but higher by popularity). If that’s how we judge ‘good’ or ‘bad’ Presidents, it’s a bad metric. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2021, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bidens-damage-to-foreign-affairs/950202/114 "2021-09-08T15:41:09Z")
Comparing the damage done to foreign affairs by Biden to those done by Trump is comparing apples to water melons. Biden’s leaving Afghanistan represents a difference of opinion regarding policy. They may not like that decision and they might publicly complain about it, but it doen’t fundamentally change the relationship. Trumps actions on the other hand, rejecting treaties that were previously agreed to (Iran, NAFTA, Paris Climate) , starting trade wars, direcly bad mouthing other countries while cozying up to Russia, represented a fundamental change in the ability of our allies to trust us. If our relationship to Europe was a marriage, Afghanistan would be the equivalent of our inviting the Henderson’s to dinner next Saturday without checking with Germany first. What Trump did would be the equivalent of sleeping with Germany’s sister. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2021, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bidens-damage-to-foreign-affairs/950202/115 "2021-09-08T15:41:26Z")
History will judge Carter much better than many of today’s critics. Concern for human rights- how dare he? How many of those Republicans currently shedding those crocodile tears over the fate of the Afghans were outraged that Jimmy Carter boycotted the 1980 Olympics over the USSR’s invasion of Afghanistan? Apparently the Afghans didn’t mean shit in 1979 but are now worth bankrupting the US over in 2021. Sort of like the 241 killed in Beirut in 1983 went totally under the Republican radar but the 4 Americans killed in Benghazi were the four most important and wonderful people in the history of the universe. Let’s not forget that it was the previous administration that negotiated the surrender of Afghanistan to the Taliban. [Donnie Two Scoops even bragged about Biden’s hands being tied.](https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2021/8/17/2046429/-Trump-June-21st-Biden-Can-t-Stop-My-Afghanistan-Withdrawal) > “I started the process. All the troops are coming back home. They couldn’t stop the process. 21 years is enough. Don’t we think? 21 years. They couldn’t stop the process. They wanted to, but it was very tough to stop" > > “21 years by a government that wouldn’t last, **the only way they last is if we’re there**. What are we going to say? That we’ll stay for another 21 years? . . . The whole thing is ridiculous. So we’re bringing our troops back home!” So now the Republicans are acting like this never would have happened under DJT and this is all Biden’s fault. Even worse, saying the Biden has done damage to our global reputation. This would be funny if they weren’t being serious. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2021, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bidens-damage-to-foreign-affairs/950202/116 "2021-09-08T15:47:30Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Ahh, an advocate of human rights only when it is easy and costs us nothing. As opposed to Republicans who only advocate for human rights when it can be used as a cudgel against the opposition. Seriously, when was the last time Republicans gave a flying fig about how any of the marginalized groups around the world (or in our own country for that matter) have been treated? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2021, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bidens-damage-to-foreign-affairs/950202/117 "2021-09-08T16:20:44Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Being a “good human being”, but being bad at the job of President, doesn’t say a lot about our country, it says maybe more about the person of Jimmy Carter. Jimmy Carter, as a human being, is a pretty damn good person. I agree that his presidency was pretty… not good. I do wonder if there is something to be said there, that a good person makes a bad president/politician. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2021, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bidens-damage-to-foreign-affairs/950202/118 "2021-09-08T17:11:30Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > I do wonder if there is something to be said there, that a good person makes a bad president/politician. That’s probably very true and definitely depressing. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2021, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bidens-damage-to-foreign-affairs/950202/119 "2021-09-08T18:14:49Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > I do wonder if there is something to be said there, that a good person makes a bad president/politician. On the other extreme, we recently learned that a terrible person also makes a bad president. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2021, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bidens-damage-to-foreign-affairs/950202/120 "2021-09-08T19:26:20Z")
You mean an even worse president. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2021, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bidens-damage-to-foreign-affairs/950202/121 "2021-09-08T19:52:12Z")
Carter had his flaws but I think judgment of his administration’s track record could use a fresh look, particularly given the circumstances that were not really under his control. Carter didn’t cause high inflation; he did appoint a Fed Chair who decided to do something about inflation, though, and unfortunately, the medicine for the long term meant pain in the shorter term. Nor did Carter cause the Iranian revolution. He just looked weak and powerless, which is something Americans don’t like to see in a leader. But he hosted the Camp David accords and reached another arms control deal with the Soviets. The debt-GDP ratio was stable under Carter - we’ve had out of control twin deficits ever since to the point where sovereign debt now poses a real threat to our long-term well-being. If you wan to blame America for its political failings over the last 40 years, I wouldn’t spend too much time studying Carter. I’d spend a lot more time reading about Reagan, W Bush, and Trump. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bidens-damage-to-foreign-affairs/950202.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bidens-damage-to-foreign-affairs/950202.md?page=7)