# Big 10 Division Split **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 26, 2010, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-10-division-split/551514 "2010-08-26T10:37:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-10-division-split/551514/21 "2010-08-26T16:57:21Z")
> [@notfrommensa](#): > > I’m not suggesting that they lose the rivalry. SEC keeps cross division rivals, so can the Big 10. > > I don’t think the significance of the game will be lost if it is played in October rather than mid-late November. The game is bigger than the date. I don’t agree. Games played in the beginning of the year simply matter less in the scope of the BCS and national rankings. Certainly moving the game to October won’t kill it, but it will lessen its importance. > [@notfrommensa](#): > > And if the game is played earlier in the season, can you imagine the developing passion and hype if those two teams win their division and have a re-match? Yes, that certainly would be exiciting, but not much more so than an end of the season game which determines who goes to the Big 10 title game. Under your scheme, you have a big OSU-Michigan game every 4-5 years. Under the current scheme its a big game every year. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-10-division-split/551514/22 "2010-08-26T16:58:29Z")
Meh. Who needs it? There are, what, 14 games in the college football season? Everyone plays everyone, then schedule some out of conference games for the others. ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-10-division-split/551514/23 "2010-08-26T16:59:48Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > The problem is that if they both return to the top like they did for decades, they would play each other twice in a week. The Big !0,11,12, thinks that is a bad idea. Pssst, They don’t have to play the game on the last weekend of the season. The game is bigger than the date. Let them play in Mid-October. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-10-division-split/551514/24 "2010-08-26T17:32:25Z")
> [@notfrommensa](#): > > > [@gonzomax](#): > > > > The problem is that if they both return to the top like they did for decades, they would play each other twice in a week. The Big !0,11,12, thinks that is a bad idea. > > Pssst, They don’t have to play the game on the last weekend of the season. > > The game is bigger than the date. Let them play in Mid-October. Not if you listen to the fans. There’s been plenty of blathering by fans and alum about the date and the game. ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-10-division-split/551514/25 "2010-08-26T17:34:57Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > > [@Duke](#): > > > > Well, Iowa seems fairly strong this year so I suppose you’re right. I don’t think there’s any perfect way to realign the conference, obviously. Somebody’s going to be stuck with the powerhouses, and, vice versa, somebody’s going to be stuck with Northwestern or Indiana dragging down their computer rankings. > > Hey! You need to take another look at Northwestern’s record and standings in the last 15 years. They have a few conference championships in that time and usually finish in the top half of the conference. [/nu alum] Ah, true I suppose. Indiana still stands, though. They’re so hard up they’re playing their home game against Penn State in Washington, DC this year to try to attract more fans…not even their own fans, just more fans. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-10-division-split/551514/26 "2010-08-26T17:48:29Z")
> [@notfrommensa](#): > > The game is bigger than the date. Let them play in Mid-October. [From Charley the Unicorn/] Shun the unbeliever. Shunnnnnnnnn. [/From Charley the Unicorn] No, this has to be the last regular season game. I am open to having some conference games earlier. There is a definite strategic advantage to having a tough game early, it gives you time to recover in the polls. There are some conferences that I think do this for that very reason, sure you drop a few places in October by losing to Enormous U, but then you pick them right back up in November by playing Whackahatchee State and Drano Tech. ---
**Author:** ![fiddlesticks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddlesticks/32/18129_2.png) [@fiddlesticks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fiddlesticks)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-10-division-split/551514/27 "2010-08-26T17:56:00Z")
According to Jim Delany at the season kickoff press conference a few weeks back, the Big Ten is using records since 1993 (when Penn State joined) as the basis for splitting the division, presumably putting the odds in one pile and the evens in the other. So you start by deciding how to distribute the “Big 4” in OSU, Mich, PSU, and Nebraska into pods of 2. Iowa and Wisconsin are the “Next 2” and have to be split (and apparently are). Then the rest of the rabble. Right from the start I figured that having Mich/OSU in the same division would be bad because it prevents them for ever playing for the title between each other. Sounds like the ADs are coming to the same conclusion. Now the decision to go to with a 9 game schedule you can either have 1 protected interdivision matchup per year or 2 at most. But even if you have 2, then the cycle between a home/home matchup between the other 4 teams gets long, so I’m guessing teams will only get to declare 1 favored cross-division rivalry. So unless both Minnesota and Nebraska (who Bielema has already declared to be Wisconsin’s newest rival) end up in Wisconsin’s division, I’m guessing Iowa won’t be an every year thing anymore for the Badgers, which will be a shame. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-10-division-split/551514/28 "2010-08-26T17:59:11Z")
Ok, who wants to go back and look at all the team records since 1993? ETA: If, for example, Penn State and Nebraska end up in the same division, that would _suck_ for every team that isn’t football. ---
**Author:** ![fiddlesticks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddlesticks/32/18129_2.png) [@fiddlesticks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fiddlesticks)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-10-division-split/551514/29 "2010-08-26T18:11:44Z")
[http://www.cleveland.com/datacentral/index.ssf/2010/0/ohio\_state\_has\_been\_clear\_big.html](http://www.cleveland.com/datacentral/index.ssf/2010/0/ohio_state_has_been_clear_big.html) This doesn’t include Nebraska though. 1. OSU 2. Mich 3. PSU 4. Wisc 5. Iowa 6. Purdue 7. MSU 8. NW 9. Ill 10. Minn 11. Ind. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-10-division-split/551514/30 "2010-08-26T20:13:13Z")
> [@fiddlesticks](#): > > [http://www.cleveland.com/datacentral/index.ssf/2010/0/ohio\_state\_has\_been\_clear\_big.html](http://www.cleveland.com/datacentral/index.ssf/2010/0/ohio_state_has_been_clear_big.html) > > This doesn’t include Nebraska though. > > 1. OSU > 2. Mich > 3. PSU > 4. Wisc > 5. Iowa > 6. Purdue > 7. MSU > 8. NW > 9. Ill > 10. Minn > 11. Ind. I would do: East: OSU (1) Mich (2) Purdue (6) MSU (7) NW (8) Ill (9) West: PSU (3) Neb Wisc (4) Iowa (5) Minn (10) Ind (11) Preserves all of the rivalries that matter (except perhaps Mich-Minn) and keeps the divisions pretty balanced. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-10-division-split/551514/31 "2010-08-26T20:14:13Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > Ok, who wants to go back and look at all the team records since 1993? > > ETA: If, for example, Penn State and Nebraska end up in the same division, that would _suck_ for every team that isn’t football. Divisions are just for football as far as I know. Most other sports play enough games to make divisions unnecessary. ---
**Author:** ![TheFifthYear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@TheFifthYear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheFifthYear)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-10-division-split/551514/32 "2010-08-26T20:20:26Z")
I think you’ve got the right idea, treis, but it isn’t going to happen, unfortunately. I think too much emphasis is being put on the past glories of certain programs (looking your way, Ann Arbor) and not enough on the current states of the programs when they talk about competitive balance. For example, in the next 10 years, which pair of teams is going to have a better record, Michigan and Penn State, or Iowa and Wisconsin? I’d put my money on the latter two, although nothing is certain. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-10-division-split/551514/33 "2010-08-26T21:09:19Z")
> [@treis](#): > > I would do: > > East: OSU (1) Mich (2) Purdue (6) MSU (7) NW (8) Ill (9) > West: PSU (3) Neb Wisc (4) Iowa (5) Minn (10) Ind (11) > > Preserves all of the rivalries that matter (except perhaps Mich-Minn) and keeps the divisions pretty balanced. You’d put Penn State in the West? :dubious: Hey, we made fun of PSU’s academics as much as anyone, but never accused them of not being able to read a map. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-10-division-split/551514/34 "2010-08-26T21:11:32Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > > [@treis](#): > > > > I would do: > > > > East: OSU (1) Mich (2) Purdue (6) MSU (7) NW (8) Ill (9) > > West: PSU (3) Neb Wisc (4) Iowa (5) Minn (10) Ind (11) > > > > Preserves all of the rivalries that matter (except perhaps Mich-Minn) and keeps the divisions pretty balanced. > > You’d put Penn State in the West? :dubious: Hey, we made fun of PSU’s academics as much as anyone, but never accused them of not being able to read a map. 😃 Yeah, unfortunately PSU gets screwed. Either you have to have a OSU-Mich-PSU division or send PSU out west. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-10-division-split/551514/35 "2010-08-26T21:30:19Z")
Realistically, there’s just no way to do it geographically and have Michigan, Ohio State and Penn State not be in the same division, leading to imbalance. Only Nebraska has the traditional power of those 3, and they’re down lately. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-10-division-split/551514/36 "2010-08-26T21:33:53Z")
I still think having OSU, Mich and PSU together is not a big deal. But that’s easy for me to say, since my team would be in the other division. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-10-division-split/551514/37 "2010-08-26T21:40:01Z")
Is there a compelling reason to try for “parity” between the divisions? Why not have an “upper” and “lower” division that are reevaluated regularly. Have teams play mostly teams from the other division (plus two rivals) and then have the best team play the next best team they haven’t yet beat for the championship. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-10-division-split/551514/38 "2010-08-26T21:44:05Z")
> [@furt](#): > > Realistically, there’s just no way to do it geographically and have Michigan, Ohio State and Penn State not be in the same division, leading to imbalance. Only Nebraska has the traditional power of those 3, and they’re down lately. I’ve got it: Big 10 North: Minnesota, Wisconsin, Northwestern, Michigan State, Michigan, Penn State Big 10 South: Nebraska, Iowa, Illinois, Indiana, Purdue, Ohio State Annual Rivalries: Wisconsin/Iowa, Northwestern/Illinois, Michigan/OSU, MSU/Purdue, Penn State/Nebraska, Minnesota/Indiana – or something like that. ---
**Author:** ![zamboniracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zamboniracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zamboniracer)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2010, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-10-division-split/551514/39 "2010-08-31T15:44:51Z")
> [@](#): > > You’d put Penn State in the West? :dubious: Hey, we made fun of PSU’s academics as much as anyone, but never accused them of not being able to read a map. 😃 Once you reconcile yourself to the Big 10 having eleven or twelve teams, geography is no biggie. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2010, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-10-division-split/551514/40 "2010-08-31T17:42:39Z")
Here’s how I would like it: Division A: Michigan State Illinois Northwestern Indiana Minnesota Purdue Division B: Penn State Ohio State Michigan Wisconsin Iowa Nebraska This should put my Spartans in the title game every year. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-10-division-split/551514.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-10-division-split/551514.md?page=3)