# Big Ben in Big Trouble? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [March 11, 2010, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ben-in-big-trouble/532116 "2010-03-11T16:08:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![HongKongFooey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c4cdca/32.png) [@HongKongFooey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HongKongFooey)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ben-in-big-trouble/532116/201 "2010-04-22T15:11:13Z")
> [@Stink Fish Pot](#): > > 1. The statement is pretty coherent… and it is legible. Did she write it herself, or was it dictated to someone? The writing is clear and the story is very detailed. This doesn’t sound like a statement from a plastered 20 year old woman. I don’t know the other answers but there were two written statements, one drunk and one after sobering up a bit. The handwriting is better in the second one. I don’t want to defend Ben either. At the very least he’s shown a baffling inability to realize the precariousness of the situations he puts himself into. At worst he’s a big dough-faced rapist. It shouldn’t be a surprise. His style as a QB is to act without regard to the dangers around him, get out of tight jams time and again and he makes poor reads at times. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ben-in-big-trouble/532116/202 "2010-04-22T15:13:55Z")
First of all, 6 games is too many. Ben is being victimized by the media, and by its hunger for salacious details that may or may not be true. The NFL simply made a business decision, and in no way should this be used as evidence of what actually happened, one way or the other. The weird thing about the 6 game suspension is that it will definitely NOT be 6 games. It will either be 4 games, if Ben behaves himself, or longer if he does not. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ben-in-big-trouble/532116/203 "2010-04-22T15:27:52Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > To address the OP, I’m not sure exactly what happened in that bar, and I have a difficult philosophical time suspending a player, taking away their livelihood, for conduct neither proven in criminal court, nor in civil court. I also have a problem suspending players for 6 weeks for bad acts that are only alleged, while Leonard Little is still walking around a free employed member of the NFL. That said, I have no problem greatly disliking Ben for what he is alleged to have done. If he were injured in Week 7, I wouldn’t shed many tears. Where are people getting the idea that the League is only allowed to discipline players if they are convicted of crimes? Roethlisberger isn’t being suspended for being a rapist but for violating the League’s personal conduct policy. Criminal allegations aside (and the League is not bound by any presumption of innocence, by the way – the presumption of innocence only applies to the government. The NFL, the Steelers, the fans and everyone else can presume whatever they want. Seriously, people need to stop talking about it like it’s meaningful to how an employer can discipline an employee. It’s irrelevant), the behavior that we know for SURE occurred is already sleazy enough to put him in violation of the League’s conduct policy in and of itself. He violated the terms of his own employment and contract. He isn’t being suspended for alleged actions, he’s being suspended for the behavior that is undisputed. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ben-in-big-trouble/532116/204 "2010-04-22T15:30:12Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > First of all, 6 games is too many. Ben is being victimized by the media How so? > [@](#): > > NFL simply made a business decision, and in no way should this be used as evidence of what actually happened, one way or the other. The NFL is simply enforcing its own personal conduct policy. Is there something wrong with that? ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ben-in-big-trouble/532116/205 "2010-04-22T15:41:00Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > The NFL is simply enforcing its own personal conduct policy. Is there something wrong with that? I think people are taking issue with the fact that the things that Ben is known to have done are far less serious than Michael Vick, who was convicted of electrocuting a dog to death for funsies, and he only got four games. Right now, the only thing know for sure about Ben is that he likes to get plastered in public a lot and may (but most likely did) or may not have sexually assaulted someone (I don’t think there’s near enough evidence to refer to Ben as someone who’s definitely a rapist). ---
**Author:** ![HongKongFooey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c4cdca/32.png) [@HongKongFooey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HongKongFooey)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ben-in-big-trouble/532116/206 "2010-04-22T15:45:36Z")
I think Ben should be given a chance to redeem himself and wipe out the suspension. Picture this, Big Ben vs. a room full of rapists. Ben takes them on one at a time, no gloves, no rules. Three minutes of going at it hammer and tongs. Advertising proceeds go to women’s rights groups, Ben gets a game less for every three rapists he can beat. I’d watch it. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ben-in-big-trouble/532116/207 "2010-04-22T15:51:20Z")
I think the bigger question no one is asking is how is Hines Ward dealing with all this? He’s got to be pretty pissed at Ben for cheating on him. Will their “chemistry” ever be the same? ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ben-in-big-trouble/532116/208 "2010-04-22T15:51:36Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > How so? Because half of the story is that: 1) she was already drunk and 2) she had a consensual very short-term relationship with Ben. > [@](#): > > The NFL is simply enforcing its own personal conduct policy. Is there something wrong with that? I didn’t say that there was something wrong with it, especially from a business perspective. However, there is no way that this can be used as evidence that he did anything criminal. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ben-in-big-trouble/532116/209 "2010-04-22T15:52:07Z")
> [@CapnPitt](#): > > Pittsburgh fan here. He’s definitely deserving of a suspension, but six games is too much. Hell, Vick only got four after doing a year and a half in prison. 50 percent more suspension and he wasn’t even charged with anything…just seems to be too much. > > The Steelers are crazy if they trade him now. All they’ll get is low-ball offers. I’m willing to bet Vick got less suspension time because he DID serve time in prison. ---
**Author:** ![Enginerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bcef8e/32.png) [@Enginerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enginerd)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ben-in-big-trouble/532116/210 "2010-04-22T15:55:32Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > I think people are taking issue with the fact that the things that Ben is known to have done are far less serious than Michael Vick, who was convicted of electrocuting a dog to death for funsies, and he only got four games. Vick was [suspended indefinitely](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_vick#Suspension) when he plead guilty to the federal dogfighting charges in August, 2007. He was released from prison/house arrest in July 2009, and he was eligible to play again in week five of the 2009 season. That’s 36 games. Granted, he couldn’t have played all those games, but it’s not like the only NFL punishment he got was a four game suspension. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ben-in-big-trouble/532116/211 "2010-04-22T15:57:57Z")
The two off duty cops that were with Roethlisberger are in trouble too. I find it very disturbing that a state trooper would stand there and allow this to happen. Even if the sex was consensual, it’s still pretty sleazy to corner a drunk woman and have sex. > [@](#): > > The GBI report includes a witness statement in which Ann Marie Lubatti told Milledgeville police that she approached one of Roethlisberger’s two so-called bodyguards and said, “This isn’t right. My friend is back there with Ben. She needs to come back right now.” > > Lubatti said that the “bodyguard” wouldn’t look her in the eye and that he said he didn’t know what she was talking about. [http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/washington/23222342/detail.html](http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/washington/23222342/detail.html) The other cop (Officer Anthony Barravecchio, from the Coraopolis Police Department) is accused of leading the woman down the hall and separating her from her friends. I got a feeling both cops will be disciplined after the internal investigations. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ben-in-big-trouble/532116/212 "2010-04-22T15:59:11Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > I think people are taking issue with the fact that the things that Ben is known to have done are far less serious than Michael Vick, who was convicted of electrocuting a dog to death for funsies, and he only got four games. I disagree that they’re less serious, but I also think it’s facile to say that Vick only got a four game suspension. Vick missed two entire seasons _plus_ four games. ---
**Author:** ![HongKongFooey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c4cdca/32.png) [@HongKongFooey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HongKongFooey)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ben-in-big-trouble/532116/213 "2010-04-22T15:59:26Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > I think the bigger question no one is asking is how is Hines Ward dealing with all this? He’s got to be pretty pissed at Ben for cheating on him. Will their “chemistry” ever be the same? They haven’t seemed to get along very well for a while. After Holmes was traded Hines said on facebook that he supports the Rooneys in whatever they decide. No updates since Ben’s idiocy (that I’ve seen). ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ben-in-big-trouble/532116/214 "2010-04-22T16:01:34Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > Because half of the story is that: 1) she was already drunk Irrelevant, but also heavily reported. > [@](#): > > and 2) she had a consensual very short-term relationship with Ben. What the hell does this even mean? She talked to him at a bar, so that constitutes a “consensual relationship?” Are you kidding me? > [@](#): > > I didn’t say that there was something wrong with it, especially from a business perspective. However, there is no way that this can be used as evidence that he did anything criminal. Who’s saying otherwise? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ben-in-big-trouble/532116/215 "2010-04-22T16:03:26Z")
Vick missed a full season because he was in jail. And if you want to get technical about it I think he was suspended indefinitely for most of that time. So at best, comparing him to Roethlisberger is really inexact. In any case it’s not like there is a precise metric for determining how bad Roethlisberger’s actions are compared to Stallworth’s and Vick’s. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ben-in-big-trouble/532116/216 "2010-04-22T16:08:18Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Vick missed a full season because he was in jail. And if you want to get technical about it I think he was suspended indefinitely for most of that time. So at best, comparing him to Roethlisberger is really inexact. In any case it’s not like there is a precise metric for determining how bad Roethlisberger’s actions are compared to Stallworth’s and Vick’s. There absolutely is a precise metric. Two of them were charged, tried and convicted of a crime. One was not. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ben-in-big-trouble/532116/217 "2010-04-22T16:12:25Z")
Utterly irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ben-in-big-trouble/532116/218 "2010-04-22T17:36:18Z")
> [@HongKongFooey](#): > > They haven’t seemed to get along very well for a while. After Holmes was traded Hines said on facebook that he supports the Rooneys in whatever they decide. No updates since Ben’s idiocy (that I’ve seen). In all seriousness, this appears to be true. I think the bad blood between them started when Ben waffled on whether he was going to play after a mild concussion (or was it a broken thumb? A fever of 104 degrees?) and Hines questioned his desire/toughness. I believe it was at a fairly crucial juncture in the Steelers season last year when that went down. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ben-in-big-trouble/532116/219 "2010-04-22T17:44:42Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Irrelevant, but also heavily reported. It’s completely relevant, when people keep saying that he got her drunk and was giving her alcohol. Not too many news stories highlighted the very probable scenario that 2 drunk adults had sex in a club restroom, and one of them regretted it later. > [@](#): > > What the hell does this even mean? She talked to him at a bar, so that constitutes a “consensual relationship?” Are you kidding me? No, they decided to hook up or have sex and then go their separate ways. Thus, it was a brief relationship, and their level of interaction was consensual. I’m not stating this as fact, just that the media really hasn’t portrayed it in this manner. > [@](#): > > Who’s saying otherwise? Many people are assuming that he must have done something wrong, since he was suspended. ---
**Author:** ![Hawkeyeop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/958977/32.png) [@Hawkeyeop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hawkeyeop)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ben-in-big-trouble/532116/220 "2010-04-22T17:58:03Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > It’s completely relevant, when people keep saying that he got her drunk and was giving her alcohol. Not too many news stories highlighted the very probable scenario that 2 drunk adults had sex in a club restroom, and one of them regretted it later. Except the alleged victim did not report the crime a couple days later after pondering a bit. The complaint was made immediately. I suggest you read the police support. It appears the far more likely scenario is the the girl did not want to go through the public spectatle of a trial, and they didn’t have enough evidence without her. The NFL does not need to have such a high standard for punishment. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ben-in-big-trouble/532116.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ben-in-big-trouble/532116.md?page=12)