# Big Ben in Big Trouble? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [March 11, 2010, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ben-in-big-trouble/532116 "2010-03-11T16:08:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2010, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ben-in-big-trouble/532116/21 "2010-03-13T19:01:28Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Ah, but not necessarily in the eyes of the NFL. > > Anyway, I feel the exact opposite than you do about him. I think he has a spoiled fratboy mentality and that he is a big old drama queen with quite a bit of air whistling between his ears. And I think you’re 100% correct. Imagine that. Notwithstanding the fact that he does some truly bizarre and asinine things when he’s not on the field (and some while he’s on the field–for the love of God, throw the ball away once in a while!), he’s not yet been charged with anything in this case. I know the evidence isn’t going anywhere, but why haven’t they charged him? If he did what he was accused of there should be physical evidence, there should be DNA evidence, there should be witnesses out the wazoo since everybody in that town was watching him… If he did it, by all means throw him to the dogs. There is no place for rapists on the Pittsburgh Steelers (or anywhere else, for that matter). But the fact that he hasn’t been charged casts doubt on the idea that he did anything, and the longer it goes the more doubt there will be. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2010, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ben-in-big-trouble/532116/22 "2010-03-13T19:08:28Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > And I think you’re 100% correct. Imagine that. > > Notwithstanding the fact that he does some truly bizarre and asinine things when he’s not on the field (and some while he’s on the field–for the love of God, throw the ball away once in a while!), he’s not yet been charged with anything in this case. I know the evidence isn’t going anywhere, but why haven’t they charged him? If he did what he was accused of there should be physical evidence, there should be DNA evidence, there should be witnesses out the wazoo since everybody in that town was watching him… > > If he did it, by all means throw him to the dogs. There is no place for rapists on the Pittsburgh Steelers (or anywhere else, for that matter). But the fact that he hasn’t been charged casts doubt on the idea that he did anything, and the longer it goes the more doubt there will be. What’s up, Airman? I pretty much agree with everything you say here. I wonder if the lapse in time that’s occurring has everything to do with the police being extremely careful about how they are conducting the investigation in order to not botch it ala OJ Simpson as opposed to a simple lack of evidence. Last I heard Ben still hasn’t given the police the DNA sample they requested, which I think is a bit damning in and of itself. I also read somewhere that one of the investigating officers in the case was actually posing for pictures with Ben and his friends a few hours prior to the alleged incident, which is interesting. I saw the pictures in question: Ben is wearing a t-shirt with Satan depicted on the front of it, and he also looked like he was already three sheets to the wind… ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2010, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ben-in-big-trouble/532116/23 "2010-03-13T19:24:42Z")
Oh dear, for once I agree with **FoieGrasIsEvil** in a thread about the STEELERS!!! Is the sky falling down? Help!!! 😛 > [@King\_Bobo](#): > > Ben Roethlisberger is 100% innocent until proven otherwise in a court of law. > > No matter how many charges are levied against him. > > That is the way it is in the US. He has the right to face his accusers and be tried. He can either be found guilty or not guilty of the offenses. :rolleyes: Yes, in the eyes of the LAW. That doesn’t mean we don’t have a right to our own opinions as to whether he did it or not. > [@](#): > > The sad fact in these type of cases is that even if he is exonerated, his name is forever tainted and I think that is a shame. > > I think it is likely that he is, and has been, shafted by predators with a jihad on his wallet. Twice? Not likely. The first one, eh, seemed a little fishy. The woman’s case was pretty weak. But then another one? > [@](#): > > I think that time will tell that he is a good guy that has been dealt a bad couple of low blows. By most accounts, he’s known to be a huge asshole with a sense of entitlement. Not just by the accusations of assault, but that seems to be his reputation. Demanding, acts like the world owes him a favor, throwing hissyfits if he doesn’t get his own way, etc. Unfortunately, I don’t have sites, but that’s what’s basically said around here. > [@](#): > > Count me in on his side in the long debates surely to follow. > > I sure do hope he wins another few Super Bowls and that he ends his career in the Canton Hall of Fame. > > KB. Make no mistake – I’m as huge a Steelers fan as they come, but that doesn’t mean I’m going to be blind and say “no, he can’t POSSIBLY be a dick – he’s a STEELER!!!” Or excuse him on that basis. To me, it seems a LOT of people are defending him because he’s BIG BEN, and they don’t want to accept that he could be a jackass. Terry Bradshaw may have had his problems, and been something of a snob back in the day, but at least he owned up to them, (and to be fair, he was suffering from anxiety and clinical depression). Being a good football player doesn’t make one a good person. If you want a better representative for the Black and Gold, I say go with Troy Polamalu. Ditch Ben and bump up Charlie Batch. I don’t care how many games we lose – that louse stinks up our city. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2010, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ben-in-big-trouble/532116/24 "2010-03-13T20:07:29Z")
In a court of law, I’m entitled to the presumption of innocence, and deserve the benefit of every doubt. My friends, my wife, my family and the world at large DON’T have to give me the benefit of the doubt. If there’s only circumstantial evidence that I committed a crime, a jury HAS to turn me loose. If there’s only circumstantial evidence that I cheated on my wife, she owes me NOTHING. She has every right to call me every name in the book and file for divorce. Similarly, Ben Roethlisberger will be judged one way in court (if it ever comes to that) and another way by the public. He may well end up labeled “innocent” by a jury but “a contemptible asshole” by the fans and the media. And both labels may well be correct. ---
**Author:** ![Enginerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bcef8e/32.png) [@Enginerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enginerd)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2010, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ben-in-big-trouble/532116/25 "2010-03-13T20:29:21Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Similarly, Ben Roethlisberger will be judged one way in court (if it ever comes to that) and another way by the public. He may well end up labeled “innocent” by a jury but “a contemptible asshole” by the fans and the media. And both labels may well be correct. Nitpick: a jury can only find him “not guilty” - there’s a lot of territory between there and “innocent.” ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2010, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ben-in-big-trouble/532116/26 "2010-03-13T21:34:42Z")
I feel compelled to point out again that even if he is exonerated in a court of law, the NFL can still suspend him under the NFL Conduct Policy. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2010, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ben-in-big-trouble/532116/27 "2010-03-14T00:40:49Z")
Yes, they can. But if he’s not charged/convicted of rape/sexual assault they might have difficulty justifying it. Look at who the NFL has suspended: Ricky Williams, a confirmed drug user. Tank Johnson, weapons charges. Pac… Adam Jones, repeated felony charges. Chris Henry, repeated arrests, conviction for firearms violations. Michael Vick, dogfighting. Ben hasn’t ever been charged with anything except for summary traffic offenses stemming from his accident. The crime he has been accused of is just as serious as any of the others, but he hasn’t even been charged yet. Now, that’s not to say that he won’t be charged. If he is, well, they have something to go off. But accusations with no other history behind it except that obvious shakedown in Lake Tahoe? That’s not a very good precedent to set. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2010, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ben-in-big-trouble/532116/28 "2010-03-14T01:13:16Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > Yes, they can. But if he’s not charged/convicted of rape/sexual assault they might have difficulty justifying it. Look at who the NFL has suspended: Ricky Williams, a confirmed drug user. Tank Johnson, weapons charges. Pac… Adam Jones, repeated felony charges. Chris Henry, repeated arrests, conviction for firearms violations. Michael Vick, dogfighting. > > Ben hasn’t ever been charged with anything except for summary traffic offenses stemming from his accident. The crime he has been accused of is just as serious as any of the others, but he hasn’t even been charged yet. > > Now, that’s not to say that he won’t be charged. If he is, well, they have something to go off. But accusations with no other history behind it except that obvious shakedown in Lake Tahoe? That’s not a very good precedent to set. I don’t disagree at all. But Goodell and his tough new policies are highly protective of the NFL and its image as a “family sport” (one wonders if he’s ever sat outside a luxury box for a game? I wouldn’t take my little kids to an NFL game!:D) and if and when he feels that has been violated he can (and will) act arbitrarily outside of any legal matters. Not saying he will, but he can. I don’t think he will though, because as a Bengals fan on the outside looking in, I know that Goodell is a Rooney man and a Steeler fan, so…he’ll probably suspend Carson Palmer for it instead… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![HongKongFooey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c4cdca/32.png) [@HongKongFooey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HongKongFooey)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2010, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ben-in-big-trouble/532116/29 "2010-03-14T04:38:08Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Santonio Holmes, James Harrison, Cedric Wilson and now Ben Rothlisberger. To be fair, Holmes and Harrison were told to shape up and did. Wilson didn’t and was released. Jeff Reed’s “crimes” were bad publicity but really were pretty minor compared to the rest of the hooligans we see. I know there are different rules for different players but I think the Rooneys are stand-up owners overall. If there is anything that sets the Steelers apart it’s the owners. If you want to be an NFL owner you pretty much have to deal with issues like these. I think they do as well as can be expected. You never see the Rooneys bring in guys with these kinds of problems. As far as Roethlisberger goes, guitly or not he doesn’t seem like anyone I would ever want to meet in real life. I like his play on the field but I don’t root for him as a person. If he’s guilty of this I hope the Steelers get rid of him and take their lumps with a journeyman QB. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2010, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ben-in-big-trouble/532116/30 "2010-03-14T14:43:51Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Oh dear, for once I agree with **FoieGrasIsEvil** in a thread about the STEELERS!!! Is the sky falling down? Help!!! 😛 > > :rolleyes: > Yes, in the eyes of the LAW. That doesn’t mean we don’t have a right to our own opinions as to whether he did it or not. > > Twice? Not likely. The first one, eh, seemed a little fishy. The woman’s case was pretty weak. But then another one? > > By most accounts, he’s known to be a huge asshole with a sense of entitlement. Not just by the accusations of assault, but that seems to be his reputation. Demanding, acts like the world owes him a favor, throwing hissyfits if he doesn’t get his own way, etc. Unfortunately, I don’t have sites, but that’s what’s basically said around here. > > Make no mistake – I’m as huge a Steelers fan as they come, but that doesn’t mean I’m going to be blind and say “no, he can’t POSSIBLY be a dick – he’s a STEELER!!!” Or excuse him on that basis. > > To me, it seems a LOT of people are defending him because he’s BIG BEN, and they don’t want to accept that he could be a jackass. > > Terry Bradshaw may have had his problems, and been something of a snob back in the day, but at least he owned up to them, (and to be fair, he was suffering from anxiety and clinical depression). > > Being a good football player doesn’t make one a good person. If you want a better representative for the Black and Gold, I say go with Troy Polamalu. > > Ditch Ben and bump up Charlie Batch. I don’t care how many games we lose – that louse stinks up our city. ☹ From the perspective of someone that doesn’t care either way about the Steelers, I don’t see that happening. ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2010, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ben-in-big-trouble/532116/31 "2010-03-15T12:02:26Z")
The story I heard on ESPN’s ‘Mike & Mike in the Morning’: Ben and his crew were at the club, I think for Ben’s birthday? And they got a room back in the VIP section. And two of Ben’s wingmen would go out into the dance floor/crowd, find young women, say ‘hey, we got Ben Roethlisberger back here, free drinks champagne, why don’t you come on back’. Apparently not a lot of women even knew who he was, and only went along for the free booze. Second - clubs nowadays have cameras _everywhere_ (except of course in the restrooms). I find it highly unlikely that he would resort to non-consensual sex in a restroom in a crowded nightclub; even Ben can’t be _that_ stupid. If something went down, it is probably on video somewhere. Sorta beside the whole issue, but I am disgusted that Ben would have wingmen going out and essentially pimping for him. Yuck. > [@Enginerd](#): > > No. Ask the Vikings. \ I think I just threw up in my mouth. Thanks for forcing me to relive that awful play again, now I’ll feel like I got kicked in the nuts and punched in the stomach all day… ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2010, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ben-in-big-trouble/532116/32 "2010-03-19T00:39:05Z")
[Ben blows off MaW](http://justwatchthegame.com/blog/just-watch-the-game-blog) Yes, it’s just a blog by a local sportswriter, but it’s the same story as my cousin told me – he only does something when the camera’s on. ---
**Author:** ![King\_Bobo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@King\_Bobo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/King_Bobo)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2010, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ben-in-big-trouble/532116/33 "2010-03-20T07:55:01Z")
Why is it that none of these stories are ever told first-hand? It is always a friend of a cousin who had a girlfriend who knew the sister of his buddy in third grade. Get real people. I went back through all of the interviews with this player last season, (see steelers web site). He seems to be a very decent man. Intelligent, articulate and respectful of all of his team mates. He comes across as a very fine man. To morph from a exemplary team player to a “predator” seems to me to be a long reach. In every interview I saw, he was gracious in the extreme. He answered every question with patience and elan. He never seemed to loose his cool even when questions reached towards a nerve. In fact, when he was interviewed following the Steeler loss to the Browns late last season when the Steelers were beaten badly in Cleveland; Ben, although sad and unhappy, still answered all questions with panache. I still think he will be exonerated. ---
**Author:** ![King\_Bobo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@King\_Bobo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/King_Bobo)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2010, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ben-in-big-trouble/532116/34 "2010-03-20T08:06:49Z")
[quote=“King\_Bobo, post:33, topic:532116”] Why is it that none of these stories are ever told first-hand? It is always a friend of a cousin who had a girlfriend who knew the sister of his buddy in third grade. Get real people. I went back through all of the interviews with this player last season, (see steelers web site). He seems to be a very decent man. Intelligent, articulate and respectful of all of his team mates. He comes across as a very fine man. To morph from a exemplary team player to a “predator” seems to me to be a long reach. In every interview I saw, he was gracious in the extreme. He answered every question with patience and elan. He never seemed to loose his cool even when questions reached towards a nerve. In fact, when he was interviewed following the Steeler loss to the Browns late last season when the Steelers were beaten badly in Cleveland; Ben, although sad and unhappy, still answered all questions with panache. I still think he will be exonerated. He just does not seem to be the personification of a bad man. ---
**Author:** ![dudemanjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/49beb7/32.png) [@dudemanjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dudemanjack)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2010, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ben-in-big-trouble/532116/35 "2010-03-20T10:14:44Z")
Isn’t that what people say about a lot of serial killers? Seemed like such a nice normal guy. ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2010, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ben-in-big-trouble/532116/36 "2010-03-20T12:01:18Z")
> [@dudemanjack](#): > > Isn’t that what people say about a lot of serial killers? Seemed like such a nice normal guy. It is also what they say about nice normal guys. ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2010, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ben-in-big-trouble/532116/37 "2010-03-20T12:44:08Z")
I thing it’s wrong to judge anyone by their interviews. As anyone who has ever done hiriing can well attest, some of the best interviews make for terrible employees. Shoot, by the time he made it to the show, even Nuke Laloosh was a great interview. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2010, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ben-in-big-trouble/532116/38 "2010-03-20T19:07:08Z")
Notice all of those times are when _the cameras are on him_. :rolleyes: What’s your point? ---
**Author:** ![King\_Bobo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@King\_Bobo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/King_Bobo)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ben-in-big-trouble/532116/39 "2010-03-23T02:56:28Z")
Guinastasia, What I wanted to say and apparently failed to convey, was that my perception of him from his public persona was that he seems to be a very genuinely nice sort of man. What is currently alleged about his life style, seems to be largely speculative. Cameras on or off, I just thought he seemed to be an alright sort of guy. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ben-in-big-trouble/532116/40 "2010-03-24T01:58:44Z")
In an interesting turn of events, [police in Georgia are no longer seeking a DNA sample from Roethlisberger](http://content.usatoday.com/communities/thehuddle/post/2010/03/police-wont-seek-dna-sample-from-steelers-qb-ben-roethlisberger-in-sexual-assault-case/1). That means that they’re either ready to charge him with what they have or he’s all set. Any bets? I think he’s home free. And with this third chance, maybe he’ll figure out how to stay out of trouble. One could only hope. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ben-in-big-trouble/532116.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ben-in-big-trouble/532116.md?page=3)