# Big Ben in Big Trouble? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [March 11, 2010, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ben-in-big-trouble/532116 "2010-03-11T16:08:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ben-in-big-trouble/532116/121 "2010-04-15T20:56:02Z")
The DA pretty clearly believes he did it. The reason they’re not charging him is because the victim doesn’t want to testify. If the victim isn’t willing to testify, the case is just too uphill to charge. The vaginal tearing proves intercourse (and not gentle intercourse either). There was recovered DNA, but apparently not enough to make a positive identification (but it was Roethlisberger). The fact that there is now a third accusation shows a pattern of behavior to me. Maybe there isn’t enough to criminally prosecute the guy, but there’s an awful lot of smoke, and I’m comfortable with concluding that, even in the best case scenario, Rothlisberger is a sleazeball that takes advantage of inebriated, underaged girls in public bathrooms. The fact that the prosecutor still called the girl a “victim,” and did not say Roethlisberger was exonerated shows that law enforcement and the prosecutors think he did it, and the fact that no one from the Steelers organization (not teammates, coaches, management or ownership) is exactly falling all over themselves to defend his character, or even his factual innocence, speaks volumes as well. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ben-in-big-trouble/532116/122 "2010-04-15T21:05:31Z")
> [@Stink Fish Pot](#): > > I think they’d have to be blown away by a trade offer. And that will be tough, given the baggage he’s carrying around right now. > > I don’t see them dumping him for nothing, like they did with Holmes. Let’s face it… as bad as things look and sound about Ben, he hasn’t been charged with anything. > > The Steelers will suspend him, and this will be his last chance in Pittsburgh. > > He’s an immature buffoon, but the NFL is a business, and teams would be lining up to give him a contract. The Steelers know it, and Ben has real value on the open market. > > As much as Holmes was given away, he’s a guy that has very little self-control. I’m sure someone in Pittsburgh will correct me, but I believe he has 3 kids with 2 different women, and he’s one magic puff away from a 1-year suspension. > > They have an asset (and an asshat) with Ben. They won’t give him away, especially since they’ve paid the biggest chunk of his massive contract already. Maybe. According to the article I read, the Rooneys are _pissed_. And rightly so. I don’t think Ben will command as much on the market as you think. The only thing going for him in a trade that’s attractive to another team is that most of his current contract like you said has already been paid. I think he’s a bit overrated, being the beneficiary of stellar defenses and running attacks during his years there. That and the baggage=risk. ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ben-in-big-trouble/532116/123 "2010-04-15T21:15:40Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > The DA pretty clearly believes he did it. The reason they’re not charging him is because the victim doesn’t want to testify. If the victim isn’t willing to testify, the case is just too uphill to charge. The vaginal tearing proves intercourse (and not gentle intercourse either). There was recovered DNA, but apparently not enough to make a positive identification (but it was Roethlisberger). I have a question for the legal folks out here… was what the DA said appropriate or grandstanding? Even though I have my own suspicions about what happened, I found it more than a bit distasteful how the DA basically convicted him in the media without a trial at all. It seemed to me that he was running for office and grandstanding. If he’s guilty, fine. He hasn’t been arrested. He hasn’t been charged. > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > The fact that there is now a third accusation shows a pattern of behavior to me. cite? > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Maybe there isn’t enough to criminally prosecute the guy, but there’s an awful lot of smoke, and I’m comfortable with concluding that, even in the best case scenario, Rothlisberger is a sleazeball that takes advantage of inebriated, underaged girls in public bathrooms. The fact that the prosecutor still called the girl a “victim,” and did not say Roethlisberger was exonerated shows that law enforcement and the prosecutors think he did it, and the fact that no one from the Steelers organization (not teammates, coaches, management or ownership) is exactly falling all over themselves to defend his character, or even his factual innocence, speaks volumes as well. Glad you don’t sit in a position of judgement that counts for anything. If they can’t prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. Glad you are comfortable sitting in judgement of a guy that hasn’t been proven guilty of anything. People like you frighten me. ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ben-in-big-trouble/532116/124 "2010-04-15T21:21:55Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Maybe. According to the article I read, the Rooneys are _pissed_. And rightly so. I don’t think Ben will command as much on the market as you think. The only thing going for him in a trade that’s attractive to another team is that most of his current contract like you said has already been paid. I think he’s a bit overrated, being the beneficiary of stellar defenses and running attacks during his years there. That and the baggage=risk. I think you are right that Ben’s value isn’t as high as it should be… the baggage is too much. The value goes even lower with the upcoming suspension. He will get at least two games, and probably four. But the Steelers can’t just give away a franchise QB. They would be making a bad business decision. As bad as the Holmes trade seems, he has enormous baggage as well, not to mention he’s in the last year of a contract. The Steelers would have probably let him walk at the end of the year. You are right, though. The Rooney’s are pissed, and that counts for a lot for the Steelers. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ben-in-big-trouble/532116/125 "2010-04-15T21:25:24Z")
Beneficiary of a stellar running attack??? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ben-in-big-trouble/532116/126 "2010-04-15T21:26:27Z")
> [@Stink Fish Pot](#): > > I have a question for the legal folks out here… was what the DA said appropriate or grandstanding? Even though I have my own suspicions about what happened, I found it more than a bit distasteful how the DA basically convicted him in the media without a trial at all. It seemed to me that he was running for office and grandstanding. If he’s guilty, fine. He hasn’t been arrested. He hasn’t been charged. > > cite? > > Glad you don’t sit in a position of judgement that counts for anything. If they can’t prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. Glad you are comfortable sitting in judgement of a guy that hasn’t been proven guilty of anything. > > People like you frighten me. This is ridiculous. I’m expressing a personal opinion, not rendering a jury verdict. Theer’s a difference between expressing personal suspicions and saying it’s been proven beyond a reasonable doubt. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ben-in-big-trouble/532116/127 "2010-04-15T21:56:13Z")
As with the accuser, the DA’s own actions and motivations can also be viewed from a different perspective. The fact that he took so long to determine that there was not enough evidence could suggest that he was really searching, leaving no stone unturned, to find any possible way of charging Roethlisberger. And he still couldn’t. Fame has been the motivation of many a DA. Let’s not forget that this is the deep south and, if his constituency is religious and conservative, his commentary may have been motivated by his political goals or his religion. I’m sure that many adults in GA don’t approve of pre-marital sex, let alone random, drunk sex in a bathroom. And of course the rich, superstar Northerner would be the one to blame, and not their homegrown innocent virgin. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ben-in-big-trouble/532116/128 "2010-04-15T23:16:53Z")
This is beginning to sound even worse… > **[Accuser says she told Roethlisberger to stop](https://www.espn.com/nfl/news/story?id=5094224&campaign=rss&source=ESPNHeadlines)** > > A friend of the woman who accused Ben Roethlisberger of sexual assault told authorities that Roethlisberger's bodyguard "dragged" the woman into a bathroom where the Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback and woman had sexual relations. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ben-in-big-trouble/532116/129 "2010-04-15T23:17:40Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Beneficiary of a stellar running attack??? No? 2nd, 5th, 10th, 3rd in rushing during his first four seasons. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ben-in-big-trouble/532116/130 "2010-04-16T00:18:44Z")
> [@Stink Fish Pot](#): > > I think you are right that Ben’s value isn’t as high as it should be… the baggage is too much. The value goes even lower with the upcoming suspension. He will get at least two games, and probably four. > > But the Steelers can’t just give away a franchise QB. They would be making a bad business decision. As bad as the Holmes trade seems, he has enormous baggage as well, not to mention he’s in the last year of a contract. The Steelers would have probably let him walk at the end of the year. > > You are right, though. The Rooney’s are pissed, and that counts for a lot for the Steelers. It isn’t just the baggage. Ben isn’t as great of a QB as the clarion cry of "SIX RINGS!!! SIX RINGS!!! ONE FOR THE THUMB!!! would indicate. Again, he’s been fortunate in his situation. Its only recently that the Steeler Oline and running game deteriorated somewhat, but even then, they still had the #1 ranked defense (2008), which means…A LOT. > [@Marley23](#): > > Beneficiary of a stellar running attack??? See: **Jimmy Chitwood’s** post. > [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > As with the accuser, the DA’s own actions and motivations can also be viewed from a different perspective. The fact that he took so long to determine that there was not enough evidence could suggest that he was really searching, leaving no stone unturned, to find any possible way of charging Roethlisberger. And he still couldn’t. Fame has been the motivation of many a DA. > > Let’s not forget that this is the deep south and, if his constituency is religious and conservative, his commentary may have been motivated by his political goals or his religion. I’m sure that many adults in GA don’t approve of pre-marital sex, let alone random, drunk sex in a bathroom. And of course the rich, superstar Northerner would be the one to blame, and not their homegrown innocent virgin. I think you may be reading too much into it. I believe **Dio** is right in some ways…extremely difficult to prove (especially when security tapes from the club in question are not only conveniently but _deliberately_ erased…lets get real on that account), Ben gets the benefit of the best lawyers available due to his wealth, the goldigger assumption is rampant, etc. I think you’re placing too much emphasis on religious conservatism…even in Georgia. > [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > This is beginning to sound even worse… > > [Accuser: Roethlisberger exposed self - ESPN](http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5094224&campaign=rss&source=ESPNHeadlines) Yeep! Ben’s fucked. Hopefully Dixon proves to be teh suxxorz. ---
**Author:** ![HongKongFooey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c4cdca/32.png) [@HongKongFooey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HongKongFooey)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ben-in-big-trouble/532116/131 "2010-04-16T00:59:15Z")
[Smoking Gun’s contribution to Ben’s downfall](http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2010/0415101roethlisberger1.html) If this is true, Roethlisberger AND his bodyguard are rotten thugs and I hope he gets turfed from the league. I want my team to win but not with animals like that. I’ll be OK with it if they release him outright if any of this is true and take their shots at rebuilding. IF it’s true. The Steelers have their own investigators, I don’t think they would be playing down the rumours about trade talks if they really believed there were more cases waiting to come out. We’ll see. In the meantime, anyone want to buy a Roethlisberger jersey? :mad: ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ben-in-big-trouble/532116/132 "2010-04-16T01:32:34Z")
The more I read about it, the more I believe the girl. She didn’t wait a year to report this. Her friends saw her immediately and she was upset and crying. But what’s up with wearing a “down to fuck” label on your clothing when going to a bar around drunk men? I know she’s only 20, but are these chicks out of their minds? Maybe they should just wear “rape me” labels instead. [QUOTE=Ben Roethlisberger] I’m not down to fuck. I like to fuck girls. [/QUOTE] Immortal words from the romantic himself. ---
**Author:** ![HongKongFooey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c4cdca/32.png) [@HongKongFooey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HongKongFooey)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ben-in-big-trouble/532116/133 "2010-04-16T02:16:54Z")
I’m more and more inclined to believe the girl too. If he did do it I won’t be content to see him traded or released. Nothing short of leaving pro football (preferably to jail) would be good enough. When Jerome Bettis was accused I didn’t believe it and it became increasingly clear he was being extorted. This case, unfortunately for Steelers fans, seems the exact opposite. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ben-in-big-trouble/532116/134 "2010-04-16T02:45:58Z")
It’s probably most telling that with so much supposed evidence and eyewitness accounts, the DA couldn’t even get a viable charge. Something’s fishy, one way or the other. ---
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ben-in-big-trouble/532116/135 "2010-04-16T03:09:31Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > It’s probably most telling that with so much supposed evidence and eyewitness accounts, the DA couldn’t even get a viable charge. Something’s fishy, one way or the other. Not really. There’s not enough DNA for a match, her “outcry” witnesses were also drinking (though not as drunk, apparently) and I believe one is also under-21, the victim has memory gaps because of her blood alcohol level, and doesn’t want to go through the life-destruction that would come with a trial. She’s already had to withdraw from school because of what happened to her. One good thing: there are repercussions for some of the cops involved, the Milledgeville cop who posed for a photo with Ben, has resigned. The Coraopolis, PA police department is getting pressure over the member of their force (which can’t be more than a dozen people, it’s a tiny economically depressed suburb of Pittsburgh) who was acting as Ben’s bodyguard/designated driver/thug that night. _Some_ of the massive poor judgment displayed that night will be punished, at least. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ben-in-big-trouble/532116/136 "2010-04-16T03:10:50Z")
Well, the most important eyewitness - the victim - did write a letter to the DA begging him not to proceed with the case. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ben-in-big-trouble/532116/137 "2010-04-16T03:11:36Z")
If the victim doesn’t want to press charges, the other evidence and witnesses don’t matter. I do not find it plausible that all these girls just concocted this. The fact that there is now a third allegation with very similar details kind of cinches it for me. It’s pretty obvious he did this. Could I vote to convict in a court of law? No, but I still think he did it. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ben-in-big-trouble/532116/138 "2010-04-16T03:18:02Z")
Well, that’s not quite true; the other evidence matters. If the DA had a slam dunk conviction on his hands he certainly could and might proceed regardless. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ben-in-big-trouble/532116/139 "2010-04-16T03:19:47Z")
Not without the participation of the victim, and especially not when she’s begging him not to. And a prosecuter not charging because he doesn’t feel he’s got a slam dunk conviction is not “fishy.” The eyewitness testimony and circumstancial evidence is damning, but not a lead pipe cinch without the victim being willing to have her life destroyed by testifying. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ben-in-big-trouble/532116/140 "2010-04-16T03:26:15Z")
I should say that If he had a lead pipe _without_ the participation of the victim, he could still charge anyway, but the evidence and eyewitness tesimony _in this case_ is not strong enough to get a conviction with the testimony of the victim. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ben-in-big-trouble/532116.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-ben-in-big-trouble/532116.md?page=8)