# Big Box Stores and High Ceilings **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 7, 2009, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-box-stores-and-high-ceilings/512944 "2009-10-07T15:34:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![TNWPsycho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/47e85d/32.png) [@TNWPsycho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TNWPsycho)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2009, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-box-stores-and-high-ceilings/512944/1 "2009-10-07T15:34:53Z")
Walking through my local Wal-Mart Supercenter i couldn’t help but notice the very high ceilings, that had almost no purpose. Aside from the tire racks, or scaffold of paper towels, the shelf height is probably around 10 feet, while the ceilings have to be around 40 feet high. Why do they need such high ceilings? Doesn’t it cost more to build, maintain, heat, and cool that big of an area as opposed to ceilings 20 feet high? The average Supercenter is something like 180,000 sq. ft, by my calculations thats 7.2 million cubic feet on a 40 foot ceiling. If the average shelf height is 12 feet, they only use 2.16 million cubic feet. Leaving 5.04 million cubic feet of nothing…what gives? ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2009, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-box-stores-and-high-ceilings/512944/2 "2009-10-07T15:49:37Z")
more inventory space if they need it. the psychological feeling of biggness. the building has greater resale value as an industrial, warehouse, commercial instead of just a commercial building, so when the Supercenter closes and a Megasupercenter is build a few blocks away they can sell the building easier. ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2009, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-box-stores-and-high-ceilings/512944/3 "2009-10-07T15:53:33Z")
You can find some statements that it is a marketing ploy - high ceilings make you feel less constrained, freer and more impulsive, hence more likely to buy crap. ---
**Author:** ![pan1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e495f1/32.png) [@pan1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pan1)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2009, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-box-stores-and-high-ceilings/512944/4 "2009-10-07T16:06:46Z")
The cost to heat, cool, etc is not related to the amount of space in a building (at least not directly) - its related to the surface area of the building. Stationary air masses are not good heat conductors. It is indeed all about the consumer atmosphere. People are more comfortable with the high ceilings. ---
**Author:** ![BrandonR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@BrandonR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrandonR)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2009, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-box-stores-and-high-ceilings/512944/5 "2009-10-07T16:48:39Z")
I always feel closed in and almost uncomfortable if I’m in a large building but the ceilings are the standard 8-10 feet high. Perhaps I’ve been slowly conditioned to feel this way from shopping in Targets and Walmarts. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2009, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-box-stores-and-high-ceilings/512944/6 "2009-10-07T17:12:19Z")
Don’t know about why they have high ceilings, but I would the Insurance Man has something to say about how limiting how high products can be stacked. At least, that’s what one Big Box employee told me once. ---
**Author:** ![NineToTheSky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5a626/32.png) [@NineToTheSky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NineToTheSky)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2009, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-box-stores-and-high-ceilings/512944/7 "2009-10-07T17:20:14Z")
Some stores specify high roofs so they can hang those huge advertising banners. Also, at the back, it often has two floors - for storage, offices etc. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2009, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-box-stores-and-high-ceilings/512944/8 "2009-10-07T18:39:50Z")
> [@johnpost](#): > > more inventory space if they need it. > > the psychological feeling of biggness. > > the building has greater resale value as an industrial, warehouse, commercial instead of just a commercial building, so when the Supercenter closes and a Megasupercenter is build a few blocks away they can sell the building easier. Only you almost NEVER see an old Wal-Mart being sold and used for something else. Mostly they just become dead strip malls. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2009, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-box-stores-and-high-ceilings/512944/9 "2009-10-07T18:46:15Z")
[Julia Christensen](http://www.bigboxreuse.com/) has been studying how big box store locations (former Wal-Mart and other stores) have been reused around the country. Some are used for other retail stores, or as churches, housing, schools or community centers. ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2009, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-box-stores-and-high-ceilings/512944/10 "2009-10-07T18:51:28Z")
I doubt they are 40 feet. Standard for warehouse and big box stores is around 25 feet. I’d expect the square footage to be closer to 50,000-80,000sf One reason is it’s a standard height. They don’t need to re-engineer building designs, lighting, HVAC, sprinklers etc. Contractors can build these buildings very quickly whether it be for Target, Walmart or any other business without having to have special steel fabricated for the project. It is a lot easier to sell,buy, and re purpose buildings that are a standard height. If a business wants a lower ceiling they can hang a ceiling at any height. People like the open feeling. Most big box stores are self insured and set their stacking and shelving rules on a company by company basis. OSHA has rules concerning shelving and palletising but most stores have far stricter standards. Local ordinances and fire inspectors sometimes impose restrictions as well. ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2009, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-box-stores-and-high-ceilings/512944/11 "2009-10-07T18:57:13Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > Only you almost NEVER see an old Wal-Mart being sold and used for something else. Mostly they just become dead strip malls. In higher population area’s its not uncommon for Walmart and other big box stores to relocate based one sales and available square footage. Also big box stores don’t typically own the properties. They buy the land put up a building and sell it off to a property management company. Those companies probably have standards they expect if they are going to purchase it. ---
**Author:** ![BKReporter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@BKReporter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BKReporter)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2009, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-box-stores-and-high-ceilings/512944/12 "2009-10-07T18:59:31Z")
> [@boytyperanma](#): > > I doubt they are 40 feet. Standard for warehouse and big box stores is around 25 feet. I’d expect the square footage to be closer to 50,000-80,000sf Yeah, I was going to say 40 feet is pretty high. You don’t realize quite how high 40 feet is unless you’ve had to change lightbulbs on a ceiling that high (as I did in a former job of mine). 40 feet is probably close to what a high school gymnasium would be. ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2009, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-box-stores-and-high-ceilings/512944/13 "2009-10-07T19:22:11Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > Only you almost NEVER see an old Wal-Mart being sold and used for something else. Mostly they just become dead strip malls. This is one of the main arguments against Wal-Mart. The buildings they build are so utilitarian they don’t raise the property values of those other buildings around them. Of course proWal-Mart versus antiWal-Mart is another thread 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![TNWPsycho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/47e85d/32.png) [@TNWPsycho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TNWPsycho)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2009, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-box-stores-and-high-ceilings/512944/14 "2009-10-07T19:28:50Z")
> [@boytyperanma](#): > > I doubt they are 40 feet. Standard for warehouse and big box stores is around 25 feet. I’d expect the square footage to be closer to 50,000-80,000sf I cant find a cite for ceiling height, but [wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wal-Mart) says you underestimate the square footage of a supercenter. ---
**Author:** ![Student\_Driver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3da27b/32.png) [@Student\_Driver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Student_Driver)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2009, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-box-stores-and-high-ceilings/512944/15 "2009-10-08T18:59:02Z")
Something that’s gone unmentioned: it’s only recently that Wal-Mart (and other big boxes) has lowered its shelving, in an effort to appear more friendly and shoppable. For the most of last couple of decades, Wal-Marts routinely used risers (shelf gondola extensions above 6 feet or so) and highwalls (similar high extensions on shelves attached to walls) to store massive amounts of overstock, often just a couple of feet from the ceiling. For years, this empty space _was_ used. And most stores were built when high stacking was common. Easily stackable or lightweight merchandise, like cases of paper towels, could be stacked in the air incredibly high… IIRC, as long as a stacking job was stable (passed a “bump test” where the stocker actually went to both sides of a gondola and rammed the shelves to check stability) and policy allowed high stacking in a given department (likely in lawn and garden or paper goods, less likely in pharmacy or shoes), the merchandise could get within 18 or 24 inches from the ceiling. That clear height from the ceiling was the minimum necessary to allow fire sprinklers to still reasonably perform in the event of a fire, and I wouldn’t be surprised if that was due to federal law rather than corporate kindness. The current low-shelving, open sightline thing is a newish strategy to appear less formidable and more inviting to shoppers. ---
**Author:** ![Loopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loopus/32/15343_2.png) [@Loopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopus)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2009, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-box-stores-and-high-ceilings/512944/16 "2009-10-08T21:38:43Z")
I work at Target. We use a lot of that extra space in the back room for storage, and I’m guessing it would look funny from the outside if just part of the building were that tall… Plus the extra height makes it easier to see the hanging signs labeling the various departments from anywhere in the store. ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2009, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-box-stores-and-high-ceilings/512944/17 "2009-10-08T21:42:24Z")
The “old” walmart in my town has a regular height ceiling and it does very much feel like a labyrinth compared to the supercenter across town. Both unnerve me, but for different reasons. ---
**Author:** ![Ponderoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponderoid/32/19221_2.png) [@Ponderoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponderoid)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-box-stores-and-high-ceilings/512944/18 "2009-10-09T00:19:34Z")
Having a high ceiling plus a lot of open space allows more efficient security camera coverage. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2009, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-box-stores-and-high-ceilings/512944/19 "2009-10-13T20:08:15Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > [Julia Christensen](http://www.bigboxreuse.com/) has been studying how big box store locations (former Wal-Mart and other stores) have been reused around the country. Some are used for other retail stores, or as churches, housing, schools or community centers. Weird. Around here, they almost always tear down the old buildings and rebuild from scratch. I don’t know why. Seems silly to tear down the old Super K-Mart to build the new Super Walmart when they’re pretty much the same store from different owners, but it happened. ---
**Author:** ![Roadfood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9fc348/32.png) [@Roadfood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roadfood)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2009, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-box-stores-and-high-ceilings/512944/20 "2009-10-13T23:54:56Z")
> [@boytyperanma](#): > > One reason is it’s a standard height. But this just pushes the question back one level: Why is that a standard height? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-box-stores-and-high-ceilings/512944.md?page=2)