# Big Brother Wants To Know Who & Where You Are Passes House **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 11, 2005, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-brother-wants-to-know-who-where-you-are-passes-house/289553 "2005-02-11T06:15:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2005, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-brother-wants-to-know-who-where-you-are-passes-house/289553/61 "2005-02-14T22:12:39Z")
> [@Steve MB](#): > > Not at all. For use as an ID **on the few occasions on which an ID may be legitimately required** it can be quite bulky – and **should** be quite bulky, to prevent the sort of mission creep that sets in when officials (government and otherwise) assume that people are going to just routinely carry it. So what’s wrong with “mission creep”? ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2005, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-brother-wants-to-know-who-where-you-are-passes-house/289553/62 "2005-02-14T22:13:00Z")
I would feel less free if I knew that my movements might be monitored by the federal government. This card, at the very least, facilitates such tracking. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2005, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-brother-wants-to-know-who-where-you-are-passes-house/289553/63 "2005-02-15T14:12:06Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > So what’s wrong with “mission creep”? Failure to establish barriers against mission creep is either careless (if you merely failed to think about the issue) or dishonest (if you want the results of “mission creep” without subjecting them to public debate up front\*). Since the former cannot be applicable (I’ve already brought the matter to your attention) and the latter presumably is not (I’m willing to assume intellectual integrity on the part of my fellow Dopers), the debate turns not to **whether** to prevent mission creep, but the exact mechanisms for doing so. Anybody got a better idea than making the document more an ID Brick than an ID Card? \*(I will not hijack this thread into a commentary on Dubya. I will not turn this thread into a commentary on Dubya. I will not turn this thread into a commentary on Dubya…) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2005, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-brother-wants-to-know-who-where-you-are-passes-house/289553/64 "2005-02-15T23:46:06Z")
> [@Steve MB](#): > > Failure to establish barriers against mission creep is either careless (if you merely failed to think about the issue) or dishonest (if you want the results of “mission creep” without subjecting them to public debate up front\*). :dubious: Or it could just be the result of not being all that worried about “mission creep.” You cited the way we use the Social Security number for identifying purposes as an example of “mission creep” – and frankly, I just don’t see any down side to that.\* You say “mission creep,” I say “adaptation of existing mechanisms in response to changing social circumstances.” IOW, a **good** thing. > [@Steve MB](#): > > Since the former cannot be applicable (I’ve already brought the matter to your attention) and the latter presumably is not (I’m willing to assume intellectual integrity on the part of my fellow Dopers), the debate turns not to **whether** to prevent mission creep, but the exact mechanisms for doing so. Anybody got a better idea than making the document more an ID Brick than an ID Card? See post 31, above. Of course, that would require a constitutional amendment. Short of that, whatever legislation creates the national ID card could also specify what it can and can’t be used for, assuming that’s a problem. \*When my grandfather was first assigned a Social Security number, he came home and bitched, “They put a number on me!” :rolleyes: But it never was any practical inconvenience to him, and of course he wasn’t too proud to draw SS benefits when he reached retirement age. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2005, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-brother-wants-to-know-who-where-you-are-passes-house/289553/65 "2005-02-16T06:19:03Z")
I still think concern over “mission creep” WRT a national ID card is silly, but I couldn’t resist sharing this tidbit from the “Jokes” page of Robert Anton Wilson’s website. (RAW is a small-l libertarian. He once wrote of having no choices he could conscientiously support in the 1980 presidential election, “Ideologically, I suppose my choice should have been Ed Clark, but I’m not that kind of Libertarian. I don’t hate poor people.”) From [http://www.rawilson.com/jokes.shtml:](http://www.rawilson.com/jokes.shtml:) > [@](#): > > From: hondalover11279 > To: Aaron Leitch > > ``` > Operator: Thank you for calling Pizza > Hut. May I have your national ID > number? > > > Customer: Hi, I'd like to place an > order. > > > Operator: I must have your NIDN first, > sir. > > > Customer: My National ID Number, yeah, > hold on, eh, it's 6102049998-45-54610. > > > Operator: Thank you Mr. Smith. I see you > live at 1742 Meadowland Drive, and the > phone number is 494-2366. Your office > number over at Lincoln Insurance is 745- > 2302 and your cell number is 266-2566. > Email address is smith@home.net Which > number are you calling from? > > > Customer: Huh? I'm at home. Where'd you > get all this information? > > > Operator: We're wired into the HSS, sir. > > > Customer: The HSS, what is that? > > > Operator: We're wired into the Homeland > Security System, sir. This will add only > 15 seconds to your ordering time. > > > Customer: (sighs) Oh well, I'd like to > order a couple of your All Meat > Special pizzas. > > > Operator: I don't think that's a good > idea, sir. > > > Customer: Whaddya mean? > > > Operator: Sir, your medical records and > commode sensors indicate that you've got > very high blood pressure and extremely > high cholesterol. Your National Health > Care provider won't allow such an > unhealthy choice . > > > Customer: What?!?! What do you > recommend, then? > > > Operator: You might try our low-fat > Soybean Pizza.I'm sure you'll like > it. > > > Customer: What makes you think I'd like > something like that? > > > Operator: Well, you checked out 'Gourmet > Soybean Recipes' from your local library > last week, sir. That's why I made the > suggestion. > > > Customer: All right, all right. Give me > two family-sized ones, then > > > Operator: That should be plenty for you, > your wife and your four kids. > Your 2 dogs can finish the crusts, sir. > Your total is $49.99. > > > Customer: Lemme give you my credit card > number. > > > Operator: I'm sorry sir, but I'm afraid > you'll have to pay in cash. Your credit > card balance is over its limit. > > > Customer: I'll run over to the ATM and > get some cash before your driver gets > here. > > > Operator: That won't work either, sir. > Your checking account is overdrawn also. > > > Customer: Never mind! Just send the > pizzas. I'll have the cash ready. How > long will it take? > > > Operator: We're running a little behind, > sir. It'll be about 45 minutes, sir. If > you're in a hurry you might want to > pick'em up while you're out getting the > cash, but then, carrying pizzas on a > motorcycle can be a little awkward. > > > Customer: Wait! How do you know I ride a > scooter? > > > Operator: It says here you're in arrears > on your car payments, so your > car got repo'ed. But your Harley's paid > for and you just filled the tank > yesterday. > > > Customer: Well, I'll be a #%#^^&$%^$@# > > > Operator: I'd advise watching your > language, sir. You've already got a > July 4, 2003, conviction for cussing out > a cop and another one I see here in > September for contempt at your hearing > for cussing at a judge. Oh yes, I see > here that you just got out from a 90 day > stay in the State Correctional Facility. > Is this your first pizza since your > return to society? > > > Customer: (speechless) > > > Operator: Will there be anything else, > sir? > > > Customer: Yes, I have a coupon for a > free 2 liter of Coke. > > > Operator: I'm sorry sir, but our ad's > exclusionary clause prevents us from > offering free soda to diabetics. The New > Constitution our country started using > in 2006 prohibits this. > Thank you for calling Pizza Hut! > > ``` [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-brother-wants-to-know-who-where-you-are-passes-house/289553.md?page=3)