Big Chill/Secaucus Seven

Cafe Society
41

Yeah, but the important point is that Kasdan and Benedek failed to see just how cynical a film The Big Chill was. If they had been honest, the film wouldn’t have ended with the characters being as happy about their lives as they were. An honest version of The Big Chill would have ended with all the characters decided to commit suicide themselves because they were such sell-outs.

In any case, it’s not true that politically active Baby Boomers didn’t realize what little chance there was of all their dreams being fulfilled. In a way, Easy Rider, which came out in 1969, was about how hopeless the hippie dreams of the 1960’s were. Already by that point, a lot of politically active types knew that they were fighting a lost cause.

The Return of the Secaucus Seven is about politically active types who knew that they were already doing the best they could. They were never going to be rich or famous. They were never going to get all their political goals fulfilled. They knews that they had to settle for doing the best they could on their small-scale jobs.

42

Sorry, Wendell: simulpost.

spoke-, I was just starting my reply when I refreshed and saw your post. Amen, brotha.

Wendell, for just one example, there’s my HS civics teacher, who waxed rhapsodic about civil disobedience, but also told us that the reason he never went to Vietnam was simply that his number had not come up in the lottery. He didn’t serve, and he didn’t risk jail by refusing to serve, so how had his integrity been tested? As such, I figured I was entitled to my opinions on the bombing of Tripoli about as much as he was.

He was like a lot of people I encountered, who seemed to want to take credit for what their peers did, whether they themselves participated or not. It was in the media a lot too. For instance, Bob Greene (yeah, I know, but he had a squeaky-clean rep at the time) did a column once about going to buy Sergeant Pepper on cassette, to play in his car, and telling the clerk about how the day it was released, either he or someone he knew took it home to listen to it in the dark, and it was all spiritual and deep, man. The clerk couldn’t come up with any striking 1980s examples of such transport and reverence, so after Greene expressed pity for her (in the column, hopefully not IRL), he left, played the cassette as he drove home, and reflected how music today, you gotta turn it up, but the Beatles sound great at any volume.

In other words, Borg mentality. Because his entire generation was hugely devoted to one band*, and there was no one band in the 1980s that captivated everyone, that meant none of the 1980s bands and solo artists were worth it for anyone to get excited about. As a devoted U2 fan at the time, I wanted to knock his block off. And it couldn’t possibly be that he was 30-10 and no longer “with it”, hmm? (And today, I might also say, “We did the mad adulation thing with M-ch–l J-cks-n, and look how that turned out.”)

Beyond that, no, the BC characters did not berate younger people (although I do wonder why the Meg Tilly character was such a twit). But yes, they know they’re sellouts, and some of them are berating themselves for it (love Hurt’s video interview scene!) and that was just fine with me. They were fallible, and it helped me understand adults’ bluster more readily.

And, what spoke- said.

*I know it can’t have been to the exclusion of all else…yet why is it that I get blank stares from Boomers when I talk about the Moody Blues? Were they all too high to remember listening to “In Search of the Lost Chord”? I know they owned it…

43

Except, boomers LOVE The Big Chill. In the months I’ve been working at a video store, I can comfortably say that 100% of the people who’ve rented that movie, at least when I’m at work, have been boomers. It’s considered an essential, a classic, by MANY boomers I know.

44

Okay, that’s a very good point. I see what you mean.

But I wouldn’t go as far as you in condeming the BC characters. Remember the speech I cited, where the guy talks about settling? If, as you claim, the characters never really had the courage of their convictions, then they wouldn’t be ashamed enough of themselves to see themselves as failures. After all, we don’t really know what Alex’s issues were and why he chose suicide.

koeeoaddi, Hilarity and lisacurl, as far as BC being “slicked up” and “Hollywood”, well, it was. It was a lot harder to get indies in wide release in 1980; the fact that SS was seen by as many people as it was pre-BC is in itself a testimony to Sayles’ talents. When Kasdan chose to make his film, he had a leg up in the industry that Sayles had not had, so he made his film his way. (He did have the cast live together for two weeks before filming, to get them in the right mindset. So he was aware of some need for authenticity.)

45

Years ago I recommended Lone Star to a co worker who asked for a good movie. My wife and I had seen this in the theater and I loved it. Great characters, dialoge everything that I like in a movie. For years after, he remarked how awful that movie was and how much his wife hated it (his wife was the type of person to give him grief over such things for ever). It’s good to read about people who also like the film! Thanks!

[/hijack]

46

I am watching Return of the Secaucus 7 right now and it is pretty good but I think the fans of it in this thread might be overrating it a bit. The writing is very good, the acting is weak. Some of the camera work is surprisingly amateurish. It actually reminds me of Alice’s Restaurant but not as good.

I am a philistine, I prefer the Big Chill by a small bit. I think the sound track of Big Chill closes the deal for me.

Jim

47

It’s been a very long time, but I found ROTSS nearly unwatchable because of the poor production values already referenced. Large bits of dialogue swallowed by ambient sound and distracting camera/lighting issues.

Like Rilchiam, I saw more Chill in the boomers of my real life. Perhaps I’m bitter, having waded ten years behind in their sizeable wake my whole life, but I don’t find stories about boomers who kept their integrity intact particularly ‘realistic’.

This illustrates why any discussion about the realism of Sayles’ depiction of boomers leaves me flat. Sure, there are real, live hippies with integrity still living in the world today, but the hulkin’ mass that is the BB generation was more accurately depicted in the archetypes found in TBC in my opinion. So, for me, it is the more realistic film – slickness and all.

48

For what little it’s worth, John Sayles himself has always said he got a kick out of “The Big Chill.”

So, if it WAS a rip-off (I don’t think it was; Baby Boomer themes are everywhere in Hollywood and have been for ages), it’s not a rip-off that Sayles is mad about.

So, feel free to like one and hate the other, like them both, or hate them both (I lean toward hate them both) for your own reasons. John Sayles won’t be mad at your for liking TBC.

49

Lone Star is one of my top ten favorite films.

(Still don’t much like Secaucus Seven, though.)

50

That’s why it’s such a great movie, and why boomers (like me) love it…
It doesn’t suggest “ugly truths” --it shows the real truth that we all learned after we graduated: yeah, it would have been fun to stay immature forever, but ,gee whiz , it sure helps to have a little money when you have to pay your own bills in the real world…

The character who owns the shoe-company has two conversations where he could mention insider trading. In one of them, his movie-star friend says the shoe company looks so successful it’s going to be bought out. But the owner only answers vaguely “we’ve had offers”–and doesn’t break the law to offer his rich friend a chance to get richer. But for his dope-dealing friend, who is obviously still immature and needs help, he does offer the insider tip that could give him enough money to start a real life in the real world…

Same with the lawyer–she openly admits that real estate law is nice and clean, and that defending rapists and Black Panthers was an unrealistic, idealistic phase of her life. She isn’t embarrassed about it–she (and all the characters) are embarrassed about the silliness of their youthful idealism.

Like your first, overly-intense romantic love ;-- it was great, and you thought it would last forever at the time. Now that you’ve grown up, you know better. But the memories remain sweet, even if the goal was unattainable.

51

Well, here we get to differences of taste. I don’t see the characters in The Big Chill as “growing up.” I see them as selling out. None of the jobs they are now in are in any sense connected to the politics they espoused in college. They now just want to make as much money as possible. The characters in The Return of the Secaucus Seven have chosen jobs that are as close to their political ideals as possible while still making enough to live on.

52

I tend to agree. I recently watched Return of the Secaucus 7 for the first time. It took me a while to warm up to it, but by the end I was enjoying it, just not as much as the Big Chill. The writing of the RotSS characters may have been more naturalistic, but I still found the “selling out” of the BC characters to be a bit more interesting and even a bit more real. Add in far better production and I’ll pick the Big Chill over Secaucus.

I loved Lone Star.