# Big cities and driving **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 15, 2013, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-cities-and-driving/658364 "2013-05-15T01:44:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-cities-and-driving/658364/21 "2013-05-15T14:59:15Z")
Since the OP is requesting personal experiences, let’s move this to IMHO. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![kushiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbce88/32.png) [@kushiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kushiel)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-cities-and-driving/658364/22 "2013-05-15T18:22:01Z")
The only person I know in Saskatchewan without a license is my cousin, who was involved in a car accident and became too scared to ever drive again and let her license lapse to the point she’d need to retake the test. As for learning how to drive, every high school I know of here offers driver’s training as a free course for students during lunch hour and a couple of in-car day lessons your teachers would excuse you for. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-cities-and-driving/658364/23 "2013-05-15T22:40:14Z")
> [@CatherineZeta](#): > > As for myself, I haven’t driven in about three years and worry about things like mixing up the gas and the brakes if I ever get behind the wheel again. The last time I drove I tested the pedals before I went anywhere to make sure I hadn’t forgotten. Nah, it’s like … um … riding a bike. I got my driver’s license when I was 17 and then lost it to a DUI when I was 26. I couldn’t be arsed to get another license until I was 40, but when I started driving again it was like I’d never stopped, aside from simply regaining my confidence. I borked the parallel parking portion of the driving test, but then parallel parking had never been a necessity around here and I never was very good at it. It didn’t help that I was using my mom’s car, a fairly new Ford Focus. Back when I lost my license, these aerodynamic “cab-forward design” cars weren’t common yet, and I could not get my head around not being able to see the front end of my car while I was trying to parallel park. > [@bump](#): > > If the city has underdeveloped public transportation and/or a low population density, then driving is the way to go. It’s possible for me to take the bus to work, but it takes me somewhere between 15 and 25 minutes to travel the 9 miles to work by car, and the bus timetable has that same distance as taking about an hour, not accounting for traffic, weather, etc… It’s much the same or even more of a discrepancy for running errands on the weekends- it’s relatively easy and quick to drive, but taking the bus would easily double the time, and require a fairly serious amount of planning to make sure I caught the weekend buses and didn’t sit at the bus stop for 45 minutes waiting on the next bus. We have public transportation here, but the town is too small to justify every-15-minutes service. Instead, the shortest time between buses appearing at any given bus stop was 30 minutes; some stops only saw a bus every 45 or 60 minutes. I hated it when I was supposed to get off work a X time, but my relief was late, because that often meant I’d miss the bus that arrived 15 minutes after my shift. So it was either find a way to kill another 45 minutes, or walk my ass home. That was mainly a winter issue, though. I the warm months I’d bicycle to and from work, but our winters are too cold and snowy for bicycling. At least _I_ wasn’t going to bike in it. ---
**Author:** ![EmilyG](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/emilyg/32/364_2.png) [@EmilyG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EmilyG)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-cities-and-driving/658364/24 "2013-05-15T23:03:44Z")
I grew up near Montreal. I’m only now learning to drive, at 28. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-cities-and-driving/658364/25 "2013-05-15T23:55:06Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > But can you renew an out-of-state driver license repeatedly, without returning to the state in question? As others have said, you can. You’re not supposed to (especially, I guess, since the driver’s license has become our de facto national ID), but you can. You can renew online in most states. I know, from actual experience that some states will happily mail your license to your out-of-state address. I myself once renewed my NY license while actually living out of the country, and the DMV mailed it to me at my address in Europe. I know someone whose Texas license has her New York address on it. I have actually seen this license. That one I couldn’t believe. ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2013, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-cities-and-driving/658364/26 "2013-05-16T00:03:39Z")
Is the question about driving or driver’s licenses? Nearly everyone I know that lives in DC has a license one way or another - even the technically blind - if only to use as ID. However, there are a few people that have licenses but not cars so maybe digging up numbers on car ownership vs population would be a better figure. > [@Arrogance\_Ex\_Machina](#): > > Some data from my little corner of the world: > > In Stockholm 9% of 18 year olds get the drivers licence. In Helsinki that number is 40% compared to 60% in the rest of Finland. As I understand it, the driving tests for non-American countries are usually much harder even if it varies from state to state. I think Finland has a strong motorsports culture and the kids learn e-brake turns etc. as opposed the rather pedestrian hurdles of American tests. Further anecdotes of state-to-state variances, I know people who are horrific drivers but since their home state is super-lax about issuing licenses, they just transfer over by default without having to take a driver’s test. I doubt many “licensed” drivers out there could parallel park or drive a figure 8 without failing if forced to. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2013, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-cities-and-driving/658364/27 "2013-05-16T00:19:03Z")
> [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > You can renew online in most states. I know, from actual experience that some states will happily mail your license to your out-of-state address. How many times can you renew online before they want a new picture? Or can you end up with a decades-old picture? Or is it like a passport where you have to get the picture yourself and send it to them? ---
**Author:** ![Motorgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e36b37/32.png) [@Motorgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Motorgirl)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2013, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-cities-and-driving/658364/28 "2013-05-16T00:24:37Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > How many times can you renew online before they want a new picture? Or can you end up with a decades-old picture? Or is it like a passport where you have to get the picture yourself and send it to them? Why would you bother to renew your out-of-state license? In most cases you can just convert your license at your new state’s DMV without having to take a road test. They might make you take a written test but usually all that’s needed is the vision test and that you surrender your out-of-state license. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2013, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-cities-and-driving/658364/29 "2013-05-16T00:42:18Z")
I live in DC and personally, I don’t know how to drive. I’d say about 10% of my peer (late 20s/early 30s professionals) currently own cars, but the vast majority do know how to drive and occasionally rent Zip Cars, drive when they are back home, and rent cars on vacation. I can only think of a few that just don’t have license, but then again, I don’t know that many people who grew up in the area and those that I do know grew up the suburbs. People keep out of state licenses because a lot of people move to the city without really intended to put down roots. They may move over for a job or school, or just because it seems like a good place to be young, but they don’t really think of the city fully as their home even if they get sucked in to it for years, Among young people, especially, living in the city involves frequent moves and some level of instability, and it’s a pain in the butt to update all your stuff each time. In a city like DC, it’s easy to end up living in three different states/districts over the course of a few years, adding to the confusion. Everyone I know who has family in Maryland or Virginia here just keeps those addresses. Most people visit home fairly frequently, and it’s not really that hard to maintain a license there. ---
**Author:** ![Motorgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e36b37/32.png) [@Motorgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Motorgirl)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2013, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-cities-and-driving/658364/30 "2013-05-16T02:06:29Z")
Good points. I hadn’t really considered people considering a move to a city temporary. It would have been a giant pain for me to go home to renew things, plus I’m a rule follower, so I would follow the laws that say I have x amount of time to change my license/ID (usually 60-90 days). I moved every year for many years after I moved to Boston and filled out change of address forms over and over and over. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2013, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-cities-and-driving/658364/31 "2013-05-16T02:35:23Z")
> [@pancakes3](#): > > Is the question about driving or driver’s licenses? Driving in general, or knowing how to drive. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2013, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-cities-and-driving/658364/32 "2013-05-20T02:33:34Z")
Surprisingly enough, the L.A. Times ran a feature, some months back, about a trend among some young adults to rely on bikes and transit, rather than driving. It is theoretically possible if you can structure your life around easy access to the Metro. The trains still don’t go to most places (and probably never will), but there are nonetheless quite a few places they do reach, and there will be more in the years to come. ---
**Author:** ![Glazer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a88e57/32.png) [@Glazer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Glazer)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2013, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-cities-and-driving/658364/33 "2013-05-20T03:00:26Z")
I can’t imagine not driving. Although I almost never drive personally I log from a hundred to two hundred miles a day for work. I don’t own a car just a tool box on wheels (E-150). ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2013, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-cities-and-driving/658364/34 "2013-05-20T03:17:02Z")
I got my license when I was 29. I grew up in a suburb with one car in the family, so I didn’t bother to get my license then since I wouldn’t have had anything to drive. Then I was at college, in DC, in Chicago, in NYC and never needed or wanted a car. Then I moved here. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2013, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-cities-and-driving/658364/35 "2013-05-20T03:20:31Z")
> [@pancakes3](#): > > As I understand it, the driving tests for non-American countries are usually much harder even if it varies from state to state. I think Finland has a strong motorsports culture and the kids learn e-brake turns etc. as opposed the rather pedestrian hurdles of American tests. California driver of 40+ years here. I don’t recall _ever_ learning, or having to learn, how to do pedestrian hurdles here. Is this a commonly required maneuver in other states or other countries? Is it difficult to learn? ---
**Author:** ![Glazer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a88e57/32.png) [@Glazer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Glazer)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2013, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-cities-and-driving/658364/36 "2013-05-20T03:24:32Z")
How did you learn as an adult? A driving school or lessons from a friend? I was taught starting at ten. I learned to drive my Dad’s semi as soon as I could reach the pedals. Driving was a required course in High School. It’s hard for me to imagine not knowing how. Kind of like reading. But I work with a guy who can’t read so go figure. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2013, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-cities-and-driving/658364/37 "2013-05-20T03:24:41Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > Surprisingly enough, the L.A. Times ran a feature, some months back, about a trend among some young adults to rely on bikes and transit, rather than driving. It is theoretically possible if you can structure your life around easy access to the Metro. The trains still don’t go to most places (and probably never will), but there are nonetheless quite a few places they do reach, and there will be more in the years to come. [Link](http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/arts/boulevards/la-ca-crenshaw-boulevard-los-angeles-index,0,5415187.htmlstory). ---
**Author:** ![Glazer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a88e57/32.png) [@Glazer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Glazer)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2013, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-cities-and-driving/658364/38 "2013-05-20T03:27:28Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > California driver of 40+ years here. I don’t recall _ever_ learning, or having to learn, how to do pedestrian hurdles here. Is this a commonly required maneuver in other states or other countries? Is it difficult to learn? It’s easy enough to learn, if you can find any volunteers to practice on.:smack: ---
**Author:** ![Zago](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecccb3/32.png) [@Zago](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zago)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2013, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-cities-and-driving/658364/39 "2013-05-20T03:31:18Z")
I grew up in the Northwest and had no problem driving there. I moved to Boston over 25 years ago. I now live outside of Boston (Salem, MA) and own a car but don’t drive much (Shops, restaurants and commuter rail within walking distance). I absolutely refuse to drive in Boston. ---
**Author:** ![pullin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c57346/32.png) [@pullin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pullin)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2013, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-cities-and-driving/658364/40 "2013-05-20T10:17:23Z")
I live in Texas, and it’s almost incomprehensible (to me) that people manage without being able to drive. We hear rumors of things called “buses” that aren’t yellow and carry actual adults to and fro, but I’ve never\* been on one. Public transportation is so lacking here, that we had to get one of our kids a “hardship” license\*\* when my wife was unable to drive due to a leg injury. There was literally no other way to get everyone to school/work for a few months. \*I rode a school bus when I was a middle-schooler, but other than airport transfers, I honestly haven’t been on a bus since. There are a few around here, but they never go where I need to be. \*\*A special license for kids below driving age, only issued when you can demonstrate there is no other option to transport family members. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-cities-and-driving/658364.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-cities-and-driving/658364.md?page=3)