# Big hairy lightning balls **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [September 19, 2004, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-hairy-lightning-balls/264945 "2004-09-19T03:29:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![ceptimus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@ceptimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ceptimus)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2004, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-hairy-lightning-balls/264945/21 "2004-09-19T23:46:24Z")
We have to go with the most likely explanation of ‘what you saw’. It could have been a dream, an hallucination, a retinal after-image, or a migraine, or maybe a ball of plasma. I’m sure there are many other possible explanations. We know that the first four of these are things that occur all the time, and are well understood scientifically. The last explanation seems to me much less compelling. There are no good photographs I’ve seen of ball lightning - perhaps you can post links to the ‘google photos’. The plasma ball explanation doesn’t convince me, as there is no known way that such a ball could exist in Earth’s atmosphere for an appreciable length of time (seconds). I’m waiting to be convinced, but I want evidence. We all know that anecdotal accounts, and eye witness reports are unreliable evidence. I realise this is annoying when you happen to **be** an eye witness, but that’s the way things are. It’s very easy for eye witnesses to get things wrong - this has been shown by numerous studies. This is especially so if the eye-witness is stressed, tired or shocked - all of which are likely when on an airliner flying through a thunderstorm. ---
**Author:** ![BitWizard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df705f/32.png) [@BitWizard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BitWizard)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2004, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-hairy-lightning-balls/264945/22 "2004-09-19T23:53:07Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > I’ve seen what I think was ball lightning. Flying through a monsoon thunderstorm on a flight from the Philippines to Hong Kong in 1993, we were in thick cloud, which was being lit every few seconds by lightning. Over the sea, about 10 miles from Kai Tak airport, I was looking from the rear of the plane out of a window the port side, and I saw a bright bluish-white ball of light appear below the wing, fly upwards, divert around the wingtip, and disappear above it. It lasted about 3 or 4 seconds. Thanks for this. Again it’s “something” that seems to be “wind-indifferent”. Your plane is moving through the air at flight speed, yet you see something flying around the wing, as if it was under it’s own power? I don’t believe the latter assertion, but if what you saw was “real”, then maybe it’s being perpetually regenerated at a point in space (by the aircraft?), or it has momentum but no “surface area” to expose to the wind. Anyway, I’d like to find out how common this one odd characteristic is in reported “events”. Bit ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2004, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-hairy-lightning-balls/264945/23 "2004-09-19T23:58:08Z")
> [@ceptimus](#): > > We have to go with the most likely explanation of ‘what you saw’. It could have been a dream It wasn’t. My house got flooded out that night, and everything that happened is still vividly recalled. > [@](#): > > an hallucination This is the only dismissal of yours I find remotely acceptable - though it’s the only one of these ‘hallucinations’ I’ve ever experienced, and it happened to occur in the middle of a cloud in the middle of a thunderstorm, with no preonceptions on my part. > [@](#): > > a retinal after-image Nope, had loads of them, I know what they look like, and this was nothing like them. > [@](#): > > or a migraine Ditto. > [@](#): > > or maybe a ball of plasma Not entirely sure. Might have been, might not have been. I’m not seeking to explain what I saw in partisan terms - just that I saw something very specific that tallies with others’ experiences. > [@](#): > > There are no good photographs I’ve seen of ball lightning - perhaps you can post links to the ‘google photos’. Ain’t exactly difficult - just type “ball lightning” into [images.google.com](http://images.google.com). [Result](http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&ned=us&q=ball+lightning&ie=UTF-8&lr=&sa=N&tab=ni): 1,410 hits. > [@](#): > > We all know that anecdotal accounts, and eye witness reports are unreliable evidence. I realise this is annoying when you happen to **be** an eye witness, but that’s the way things are. Accepted. > [@](#): > > It’s very easy for eye witnesses to get things wrong - this has been shown by numerous studies. This is especially so if the eye-witness is stressed, tired or shocked - all of which are likely when on an airliner flying through a thunderstorm. Hmph. Been in a number of thunderstorms in 'planes. This is the only time I ever saw anything like this. ---
**Author:** ![BitWizard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df705f/32.png) [@BitWizard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BitWizard)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2004, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-hairy-lightning-balls/264945/24 "2004-09-20T01:07:09Z")
> [@ceptimus](#): > > Evidence? > > Without evidence, I don’t believe in these ‘small balls’ either. And anecdotes are not sufficient evidence. Photos or video would be nice. > > By the way, this ‘Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence’ thing is a common logical fallacy. What people mean, is that absence of evidence is not _ **proof of non-existence** _. > > Absence of evidence is actually good evidence towards the case for non-existence, though of course, it is not proof. Very well, “Absence of proof is not proof of absence.” Did you really not understand the point? Being adamently against a premise without proof isn’t any better than being adamently for it without proof. It takes flexibility to suspend judgement and search for the truth. Once you make up your mind, you stop looking. Bit ---
**Author:** ![ceptimus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@ceptimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ceptimus)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2004, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-hairy-lightning-balls/264945/25 "2004-09-20T06:46:14Z")
Another possible explanation of the ball lightning seen from the aircraft is a reflection or refraction of ordinary lightning in the aircraft window. The lightning could have been on the opposite side of the plane - maybe it even struck the plane (most airliners are struck each year). Remember that you are looking through more than one layer of glass / plastic when you are looking out of an aircraft window, and the plane would be passing the lightning at 200 mph plus. 1410 hits on Google images doesn’t make 1410 convincing images. Hint: try typing ‘alien photograph’, ‘bigfoot’. ‘Planet X’ etc. into Google. But I will do as you suggest. It’s been about a year since I did my last ball lightning image search - I didn’t find anyting convincing then. BitWizard. Of course I understand the importance of keeping an open mind. But not so open that critical thinking can fall out of it. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2004, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-hairy-lightning-balls/264945/26 "2004-09-20T08:10:00Z")
> [@ceptimus](#): > > 1410 hits on Google images doesn’t make 1410 convincing images. I’m not saying it does. I was responding specifically to one comment of yours: “There are no good photographs I’ve seen of ball lightning”. Perhaps in those Google hits, you might find something you can define as “good”. ---
**Author:** ![ceptimus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@ceptimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ceptimus)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2004, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-hairy-lightning-balls/264945/27 "2004-09-20T10:54:53Z")
Have you considered what ordinary lightning would like if it were viewed ‘end on’? So if it strikes almost straight at you (or away from you in an aircraft) what would you expect to see? ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2004, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-hairy-lightning-balls/264945/28 "2004-09-20T10:58:48Z")
> [@ceptimus](#): > > So if it strikes almost straight at you (or away from you in an aircraft) what would you expect to see? That’s an interesting theory. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2004, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-hairy-lightning-balls/264945/29 "2004-09-20T15:03:58Z")
> [@ceptimus](#): > > Ball lightning is reported to be seen over cities, where thousands of people could potentially see it (and get a chance of photographing it) at the same time. It’s reported to last sometimes for a minute or more. The inside of a tornado is somewhat different. > > Ball lightning has never been captured on film by storm chasers, yet it is often reported to occur near to storms. > > As far as I know, it’s never been captured by surveillance cameras, that run 24/7. > > Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, so by that reasoning, we all believe in Bigfoot, lake monsters, dowsing and ghosts? Yeah, right. I’ve seen footage of a CCTV camera operator following a glowing floating ball (which lasts for about thirty seconds, then vanishes) around with remote control camera on a car park. I can’t remember where I saw it, but to say that there’s no footage from CCTV cameras purporting to be showing ball lightning is wrong. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2004, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-hairy-lightning-balls/264945/30 "2004-09-20T17:50:31Z")
FWIW, the Wikipedia says ([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball\_lightning](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_lightning)): > [@](#): > > **Reports** > > Ball lightning discharges are an extremely rare occurrence and details of witness accounts can vary widely. Many of the properties observed in ball lightning accounts conflict with each other, and it is very possible that several different phenomena are being incorrectly grouped together. The discharges tend to float (or hover) in the air and take on a ball-like appearance. The shape can be spherical, ovoid, teardrop, or rod-like with no dimension being much larger than the others. The longest dimension observed is between fifteen and forty centimeters. Many are red to yellow in color. > > Sometimes the discharge appears to be attracted to a certain object, and sometimes to move randomly. After several seconds the discharge leaves, disperses, is absorbed into something, or, rarely, vanishes with an explosion. > > Ball lightning usually appears in a thunderstorm, and has been seen in places as diverse as “escorting” World War II bombers, flying along side their wingtips to over a kitchen stove to wandering down the aisle of an airliner. > > One of the earliest recorded, and most destructive, occurrences is thought to have taken place during the Great Thunderstorm at Widecombe, Devon, in the United Kingdom, on October 21 1638. Four people died and around 60 were injured when what appears to have been ball lightning struck a church. > > \*\*Analysis > > For a long time the phenomenon was treated as myth. Although the exact nature of the phenomenon is still the subject of speculation, there is now agreement that it is neither mythical nor purely psychological. Surveys have been taken of eyewitness accounts by at least 3000 people, and it has been photographed several times.\*\* There is as yet no widely accepted explanation for ball lightning. > > Some difficult features to explain are the longevity of existence and the near neutral buoyancy in air. It may be that the energy is feeding the glow by a stored chemical form and slowly released. There have been many attempts to create ball lighting in the laboratory, and some have resulted in superficially similar phenomena, but there have been no convincing demonstrations that the natural phenomenon has been reproduced. > > A popular hypothesis is that ball lightning is a highly ionized plasma contained by self-generated magnetic fields. Upon closer examination, this hypothesis does not appear to be tenable. If the gas is to any reasonable degree ionized and if it is anywhere near thermal equilibrium, then it must be very hot. Since it must be in pressure equilibrium with the surrounding air, it would be much lighter than air and hence float up rapidly. Adding magnetic fields can help solve the problem of the coherence of the plasma blob, but will make it even lighter. (The proof of this is the virial theorem as applied to plasmas and fields.) In addition, a hot plasma, even if combined with magnetic fields, would not last nearly as long as ball lightning is reported to, both because of recombination and heat conduction. > > There may, however, be special forms of plasma for which the above arguments do not fully apply. In particular, a plasma may be composed of negative and positive ions, rather than electrons and positive ions. In that case, the recombination may be rather slow even at ambient temperature. One such theory involves positively charged hydrogen and negatively charged nitrites (NO2) and nitrates (NO3). In that theory, the role of the ions as seeds for the condensation of water droplets plays an important role. ---
**Author:** ![Kansas\_Beekeeper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@Kansas\_Beekeeper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kansas_Beekeeper)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2004, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-hairy-lightning-balls/264945/31 "2004-09-20T18:13:11Z")
A search on Google images turns up a number of photos which claim to be ball lightning. ---
**Author:** ![owenfletch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/5fc32e/32.png) [@owenfletch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/owenfletch)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2004, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-hairy-lightning-balls/264945/32 "2004-09-20T19:17:33Z")
I recall seeing a show a few years ago, it was actually the “Ripley’s Believe it or Not” show from the 80’s, but that show had many very documentary qualities. On the subject of ball lightning, they left it open, but collected many accounts and such, but the remarkable thing was a scientist who had created it in a warehouse for them on camera with a setup he had made. He had a bank of submarine batteries which could draw an incredible amount of power at once (far more wattage than could ever come from even a generator) and his setup consisted of a sort of hanging arm that contacted another metal plate creating the contact like hanging a jumper cable over a car battery terminal and seeing it spark. The only difference appeared to be that he had some kind of regulator and an incredible amount of power, and where you would expect a massive shower of sparks, it created several cherry tomato sized balls that were yellow in color that drifted randomly across the concrete for about four or five seconds and then disolved like the description in the first post. Their movement was like a gnat flying around, just sudden sort of bumbling random direction changes and then disolving. Before seeing that film, I was suspicious, but after I cannot doubt that lightning could somehow create those. ``` --Colin ``` ---
**Author:** ![BitWizard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df705f/32.png) [@BitWizard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BitWizard)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2004, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-hairy-lightning-balls/264945/33 "2004-09-20T21:04:04Z")
I just ran into [this page](http://www.tbns.net/mediapoet/tech19b.htm) that attempts to describe some of the characteristics observed by witnesses to this phenomenon, along with a couple of photographs and one attempt at an explanation. Don’t know how scholarly it is. I was particularly intrigued with the assertion that, regarding the movement of lightning balls, “Most seem to be independent of any wind or turbulence, which causes problems for many theories.” This was the most troubling aspect to me regarding the reality of what I saw. In general, my other observations are mentioned here – none is in direct conflict. One seeming rarity of my experience is that I saw two balls simultaneously. Bit ---
**Author:** ![Dan\_Norder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4af34b/32.png) [@Dan\_Norder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dan_Norder)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2004, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-hairy-lightning-balls/264945/34 "2004-09-20T22:31:41Z")
And here I thought this column was one of his best in a while, tackling another subject where most people think they know and he jumps in and says they really don’t. I never even questioned their existence since I heard so many stories, some from supposedly reputable sources. Good show Cecil for keeping us honest. ---
**Author:** ![LArrgentDOr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c89c15/32.png) [@LArrgentDOr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LArrgentDOr)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2004, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-hairy-lightning-balls/264945/35 "2004-09-21T15:15:45Z")
In Rydal, PA in the 60s. We still have the photographs of the destruction and the newspaper clippings to back it up. My mom lost all her college papers and other childhood mementos in the fire. There was no dispute about the whether the thing was mythical or not, it was so plainly evident. [http://www.straightdope.com/columns/040917.html](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/040917.html) And here’s another link to info on ball lightning: > **[Ball lightning](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_lightning)** > > Ball lightning is an unexplained phenomenon described as luminescent, spherical objects that vary from pea-sized to several meters in diameter. Though usually associated with thunderstorms, ball lightnings are said to last considerably longer than the split-second flash of a lightning bolt, and are a distinct phenomenon from St. Elmo's fire. > Some 19th-century reports describe balls that eventually explode and leave behind an odor of sulfur. Descriptions of ball lightning appear in a variety o... ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2004, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-hairy-lightning-balls/264945/36 "2004-09-21T15:53:37Z")
Got a link to the newspaper article? Could you scan it & post it online? There would be much intrest. 🙂 You got enterprise–I hope you join. ---
**Author:** ![Dan\_Norder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4af34b/32.png) [@Dan\_Norder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dan_Norder)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2004, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-hairy-lightning-balls/264945/37 "2004-09-21T18:12:43Z")
And what makes you think it was ball lightning and not the ordinary (read: actually proven to exist) type? ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2004, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-hairy-lightning-balls/264945/38 "2004-09-21T20:05:34Z")
> [@ceptimus](#): > > The plasma ball explanation doesn’t convince me, as there is no known way that such a ball could exist in Earth’s atmosphere for an appreciable length of time (seconds). I always had the idea that ball lightning was similar to the big balls of plasma that come streaming off when you light a toothpick on fire and stick it in the microwave – they move around and tend to rip themselves apart like collapsing balloons just like **BitWizard** described. But maybe it’s not similar, because I have no idea how you would get similar conditions in open air. ---
**Author:** ![LArrgentDOr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c89c15/32.png) [@LArrgentDOr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LArrgentDOr)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2004, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-hairy-lightning-balls/264945/39 "2004-09-21T20:23:07Z")
> [@Dan Norder](#): > > And what makes you think it was ball lightning and not the ordinary (read: actually proven to exist) type? The witnesses in the local paper’s article were quoted as saying it was a beautiful clear day, then they saw a ball of lightning bounce off a nearby tree and onto the roof of my grandparents’ house. The article is in a scrapbook at my mother’s house which I won’t have access to until she comes back from a trip she’s on for the next few weeks. I talked to her today, though, verifying the story and updating the date of the incident to some time in the early 70s. I did some poking about on the web, but without extensive research tools its hard to find local newspaper archives dating much past the last five years or so. ---
**Author:** ![Dan\_Norder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4af34b/32.png) [@Dan\_Norder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dan_Norder)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2004, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-hairy-lightning-balls/264945/40 "2004-09-21T20:36:12Z")
And, as mentioned in Cecil’s column, with flashes of bright lights looking like balls of light from afterimages on one’s eyesight, what makes you think it wasn’t the ordinary (read: actually proven to exist) type of lightning? In other words, no offense, but random reports from some unnamed person or people about what they think they saw aren’t all that reliable. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-hairy-lightning-balls/264945.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-hairy-lightning-balls/264945.md?page=3)