# Big Job Cuts at IBM in the U.S. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 3, 2016, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-job-cuts-at-ibm-in-the-u-s/747833 "2016-03-03T16:19:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2016, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-job-cuts-at-ibm-in-the-u-s/747833/21 "2016-03-04T00:41:56Z")
> [@ratatoskK](#): > > Oh wow, I saw that. Poor guy! I don’t know that he was laid off, but now I’m wondering. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2016, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-job-cuts-at-ibm-in-the-u-s/747833/22 "2016-03-04T05:46:04Z")
What is corporate speak for RA? At MSFT, it was RIF (reduction in force)… ---
**Author:** ![wilberbear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/73ab20/32.png) [@wilberbear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wilberbear)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2016, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-job-cuts-at-ibm-in-the-u-s/747833/23 "2016-03-04T05:58:44Z")
America doesn’t seem to be doing so well for a while now. I am actually kind of worried. (Not for the immediate future but more of America’s potential feeling depleted.) Where is this going to go? ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2016, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-job-cuts-at-ibm-in-the-u-s/747833/24 "2016-03-04T13:20:26Z")
> [@mcgato](#): > > IBM didn’t quite know how to do things regarding layoffs. They first asked for volunteers to take a huge severance (rumored around 2 years salary) to leave. The best people took the payoff, left, and either found another job or started a small company with others laid off. That left IBM without the best employees and a seriously reduced workforce. Didn’t work out the way they expected. Later layoffs tended to get rid of the worst employees first. The auto industry made the same mistake during the rough times. Buyouts cause less trouble than layoffs, but the people that will accept a buyout are the people that are confident they can find another job quickly. Which, yes, tends to be a one-to-one correlation with your best & smartest employees. ---
**Author:** ![ratatoskK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ratatoskk/32/2987_2.png) [@ratatoskK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ratatoskK)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2016, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-job-cuts-at-ibm-in-the-u-s/747833/25 "2016-03-04T13:37:09Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > What is corporate speak for RA? > > At MSFT, it was RIF (reduction in force)… “RA” is IBM-speak for “resource action,” which is a euphemism for layoffs, which is a euphemism for firing people who are doing a good job. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2016, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-job-cuts-at-ibm-in-the-u-s/747833/26 "2016-03-04T14:45:54Z")
> [@ratatoskK](#): > > “RA” is IBM-speak for “resource action,” which is a euphemism for layoffs, which is a euphemism for firing people who are doing a good job. The great thing about Resource Action is that it is really entirely meaningless. All employees and contractors are “resources”. So pretty much anything affecting a resource could be a resource action. Or, for that matter, anything a resource does could be a resource action. Anything done to or by anyone in the company. It is just about the most vague term they could possibly devise. It’s a half-step better than calling layoffs “the thingies”. I imagine all the suits in New York gazing at a PowerPoint presentation, seeing the number of “Resource Actions” just completed and not having to trouble themselves with any concern for the “resources” they just “actioned”. ---
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2016, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-job-cuts-at-ibm-in-the-u-s/747833/27 "2016-03-04T18:02:03Z")
Hmmm…AT&T just spun off some of their Data Center Operations to IBM. I wonder how many of the folks that followed their jobs are getting laid off. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2016, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-job-cuts-at-ibm-in-the-u-s/747833/28 "2016-03-04T20:52:58Z")
> [@mcgato](#): > > IBM didn’t quite know how to do things regarding layoffs. They first asked for volunteers to take a huge severance (rumored around 2 years salary) to leave. The best people took the payoff, left, and either found another job or started a small company with others laid off. That left IBM without the best employees and a seriously reduced workforce. Didn’t work out the way they expected. Later layoffs tended to get rid of the worst employees first. I was the beneficiary of this during the AT&T trivestiture. I didn’t get 2 years, but I did pretty well, and I had a job to go to. One third of my entire center took the package, including my entire management chain. They didn’t offer it to a few people - they all left within six months anyway. My project still had tons of funding, and they wound up moving chemists in to take the place of EEs and CS people. But it was all so Bob Allen could do the Lucent IPO with reduced headcount - no one in AT&T management cared what happened to them after that. At my next job they said how stupid AT&T was - and then they did the same thing 3 years later. ---
**Author:** ![JcWoman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jcwoman/32/2889_2.png) [@JcWoman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JcWoman)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2016, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-job-cuts-at-ibm-in-the-u-s/747833/29 "2016-03-04T21:00:46Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > The auto industry made the same mistake during the rough times. Buyouts cause less trouble than layoffs, but the people that will accept a buyout are the people that are confident they can find another job quickly. Which, yes, tends to be a one-to-one correlation with your best & smartest employees. True but layoffs have the same effect (if somewhat reduced). When you do a layoff, all the smart people read the writing on the wall and get their resumes out. Before you can do the next round of layoffs, all your best people are gone. It’s ironic that Corporate America thinks of layoffs as clearing out the deadwood. It’s more like lopping off the deadwood and the tender green buds where all the growth happens. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2016, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-job-cuts-at-ibm-in-the-u-s/747833/30 "2016-03-05T05:06:18Z")
> [@RadioWave](#): > > Man, I remember being at IBM San Jose when they had their first layoffs (I think ever!) back in the mid 1990’s. Nobody could believe it was happening and the managers were in tears at having to break the news to those affected. Back then, you started your career working for IBM and you ended it working for IBM (possibly wearing the same suit). Now nobody expects to stay anywhere longer than 7 years. Sad. Heh. My father boasts about still wearing the suit he interviewed for his job at IBM back in the 60s. He was in pubs though, and didn’t have to wear the sales “uniform” to work. He was able to take a buyout during the slump in the early 90s and retire at 48. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2016, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-job-cuts-at-ibm-in-the-u-s/747833/31 "2016-03-08T15:18:05Z")
> [@ratatoskK](#): > > “RA” is IBM-speak for “resource action,” which is a euphemism for layoffs, which is a euphemism for firing people who are doing a good job. IBMer here, but I work remotely so I don’t get the “in-office” gossip. Arguably they do use this as a chance to get rid of lower-performing people, but it doesn’t always work out that way. A friend of mine was RA’ed a couple years back despite being full-time billable (and then some - he was working major overtime) on a profitable project. That project actually hired him as an independent consultant immediately thereafter. I haven’t heard of anything like such massive layoffs - certainly not 1/3 overall though I could imagine some offices / divisions being hit that hard. I have a call with my manager later today, which I think is unrelated - but I’ll ask him what the grapevine is. I’m fairly sure my job is safe at the moment, as right now I fill a somewhat unique niche on a very strategic project. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2016, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-job-cuts-at-ibm-in-the-u-s/747833/32 "2016-03-08T15:35:42Z")
> [@Mama\_Zappa](#): > > IBMer here, but I work remotely so I don’t get the “in-office” gossip. Arguably they do use this as a chance to get rid of lower-performing people, but it doesn’t always work out that way. A friend of mine was RA’ed a couple years back despite being full-time billable (and then some - he was working major overtime) on a profitable project. That project actually hired him as an independent consultant immediately thereafter. > > I haven’t heard of anything like such massive layoffs - certainly not 1/3 overall though I could imagine some offices / divisions being hit that hard. I have a call with my manager later today, which I think is unrelated - but I’ll ask him what the grapevine is. I’m fairly sure my job is safe at the moment, as right now I fill a somewhat unique niche on a very strategic project. As a work-at-home guy, I’m in the same boat. I don’t really have a sense of how bad it is, but I doubt it was as many as 1/3. Of the 50 or so people I interact with regularly, I think we lost fewer than 5. But maybe my organization has just been fortunate. On a team call last week, I asked if our boss could share any information about the RAs. There was an uncomfortable pause. She said she was usually among the last to know as well. I think IBM’s policy of not talking about layoffs just fuels fear and rumors. Anyway, I hope you come through OK, **Mama Zappa**. ---
**Author:** ![WildBlueYonder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ce7236/32.png) [@WildBlueYonder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WildBlueYonder)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2016, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-job-cuts-at-ibm-in-the-u-s/747833/33 "2016-03-08T15:59:57Z")
> [@wilberbear](#): > > America doesn’t seem to be doing so well for a while now. I am actually kind of worried. (Not for the immediate future but more of America’s potential feeling depleted.) Where is this going to go? Ask Trump? > [@RadioWave](#): > > Now nobody expects to stay anywhere longer than 7 years. Sad. If that long? No one’s jobs are safe anymore ☹ Now that Hilary is on the Trump bandwagon about taxing industries who go overseas… Not so sure how that would happen, the taxing part ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2016, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-job-cuts-at-ibm-in-the-u-s/747833/34 "2016-03-08T17:20:33Z")
> [@WildBlueYonder](#): > > Now that Hilary is on the Trump bandwagon about taxing industries who go overseas… > Not so sure how that would happen, the taxing part It makes a good sound bite for the rubes. Who cares how you actually do it? ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2016, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-job-cuts-at-ibm-in-the-u-s/747833/35 "2016-03-08T17:23:55Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Interesting. The guy who went on a drunken rant on the Dope last night worked for IBM. Which thread was that? I missed it, and couldn’t find it on search. And yeah, my manager (who lives a thousand miles away, has no clue what I do on a day-to-day basis, and whom I’ve never met in person) has not been given any direction. I expect I’m safe at the moment but if my number comes up, I’m “old enough” to “retire” and go find another job. ---
**Author:** ![ratatoskK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ratatoskk/32/2987_2.png) [@ratatoskK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ratatoskK)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-job-cuts-at-ibm-in-the-u-s/747833/36 "2016-03-09T00:06:53Z")
I have a friend in Cloud who got laid off. ---
**Author:** ![JohnGalt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johngalt/32/184_2.png) [@JohnGalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnGalt)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-job-cuts-at-ibm-in-the-u-s/747833/37 "2016-03-09T03:38:45Z")
> [@ratatoskK](#): > > I have a friend in Cloud who got laid off. My brother-in-law is on the cloud project, but he says he’s safe - this time. I was RA-ed back in 2009 during one of the biggest cuts. Funny story: the week after I left, I had jury duty. The attorneys were doing jury selection, and asked me where I worked. I said I had been working for IBM, but was let go due to a resource action. The attorney asked me what that meant, and I said, “It’s their term for being laid off.” They laughed, which broke some of the tension in the courtroom (it was a multiple murder trial). I got picked to serve on the jury, which was an interesting segue from working to not working. For anyone who got affected: it gets better! For me it was a relief and led to a much better, less stressful, more enjoyable career path (I became an instructor at a community college). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-job-cuts-at-ibm-in-the-u-s/747833.md?page=1)