# Big Love 02.22 They were petting rats **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 23, 2009, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-02-22-they-were-petting-rats/487004 "2009-02-23T03:10:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2009, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-02-22-they-were-petting-rats/487004/41 "2009-02-26T12:33:15Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Yeah, and how hypocritical was it of Bill to hug Sarah at the end? She’s an adulterer! Bill just picks and chooses when to buy into his religion whenever it suits his purpose. The nerve of that guy. Maybe it’s because he’s a hypocrite and an adulterer that he can feel more compassion towards his wayward daughter. Being a hypocrite and loving your kid aren’t mutually exclusive states. I feel like miscarriages are a classic TV cop out. They use a pregnancy to generate drama, but then they don’t have to deal with the woman’s decision or the outcome. It seems convenient plot-wise that Sarah had a miscarriage. I think it would have been more dramatically interesting to see how the family reacted to her baby, and how she dealt with it. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2009, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-02-22-they-were-petting-rats/487004/42 "2009-02-26T13:21:45Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > Maybe it’s because he’s a hypocrite and an adulterer that he can feel more compassion towards his wayward daughter. Being a hypocrite and loving your kid aren’t mutually exclusive states. > > I feel like miscarriages are a classic TV cop out. They use a pregnancy to generate drama, but then they don’t have to deal with the woman’s decision or the outcome. It seems convenient plot-wise that Sarah had a miscarriage. I think it would have been more dramatically interesting to see how the family reacted to her baby, and how she dealt with it. Yeah, I think they’re a cop out, too. Actually, I do think that if she hadn’t miscarried, they would have yelled at her for having premarital sex (which Bill has had with Margene and Ana). Remember their reaction to Ben? ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2009, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-02-22-they-were-petting-rats/487004/43 "2009-02-26T13:26:57Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Actually, I do think that if she hadn’t miscarried, they would have yelled at her for having premarital sex (which Bill has had with Margene and Ana). Remember their reaction to Ben? Not to mention Barb’s reaction to the birth control pills when she thought they were Sarah’s. Hysterical tears and freaking out. I think Bill would have been quite angry, though remember that he knows that Sarah was sleeping with that jerk who got her pregnant, and confronted him, so it wouldn’t have been as big a shock for him. However, Sarah was so obviously distraught and miserable, it would not have been a good time for them to yell at her, and they’re good enough parents to realize that. I wonder if we’ll see the fallout from this revelation next episode, when everyone has had time to recovery from that crazy road trip. Like, will they forbid Sarah from going to college out of state because they can’t trust her anymore? ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2009, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-02-22-they-were-petting-rats/487004/44 "2009-02-26T13:30:07Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Well, if their purpose is to have more children, then the Viagra helps with that, while the birth control pill does not. I’m really sick of them hiding behind their religion though. Wow, your religion basically always lets the guy off the hook but never the woman. Ordering Nicki to go off the pill was just creepy. Yes, the religion says they should go on procreating, but when a woman really, really doesn’t want to have kids, it’s depressing that she should have to have more. It was heartbreaking the way she felt she had to lie. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2009, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-02-22-they-were-petting-rats/487004/45 "2009-02-26T14:38:56Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > I’m really sick of them hiding behind their religion though. And yet you revile Bill whenever he does anything that isn’t strictly adhering to his religion. It’s almost like you pick and choose different things to kill him for depending on whatever suits your purpose. But of course that can’t be what you’re doing, since that’s one of the things you killed Bill for. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2009, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-02-22-they-were-petting-rats/487004/46 "2009-02-26T14:43:34Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > Maybe it’s because he’s a hypocrite and an adulterer that he can feel more compassion towards his wayward daughter. Being a hypocrite and loving your kid aren’t mutually exclusive states. I was trying to point out the ridiculousness of the arguments in last week’s thread. You guys repeatedly killed Bill for waffling on Rhonda testifying. His waffling was because he was trying to protect his family. It’s basically the same thing as not railing on Sarah in that moment. > [@](#): > > I feel like miscarriages are a classic TV cop out. I couldn’t possibly agree with you more. The greatest episode ever, and yet it totally went off the rails at the end, veering firmly into after-school special territory. It 's like it suddenly morphed into a Lifetime movie. I’ll forgive them that, though, since the first 50 minutes were so good. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2009, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-02-22-they-were-petting-rats/487004/47 "2009-02-26T14:52:46Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > And yet you revile Bill whenever he does anything that isn’t strictly adhering to his religion. It’s almost like you pick and choose different things to kill him for depending on whatever suits your purpose. But of course that can’t be what you’re doing, since that’s one of the things you killed Bill for. Well put. Bill has his flaws, but hypocrisy and inconsistency aren’t among them. Things we may not like about Bill are probably just things we may not like about fundamental Mormonism. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2009, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-02-22-they-were-petting-rats/487004/48 "2009-02-26T15:08:04Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Yeah, and how hypocritical was it of Bill to hug Sarah at the end? She’s an adulterer!.. Nitpick, she’s a fornicator. Neither Sarah or Scott is married. [QUOTE=Rubysteak] …Like, will they forbid Sarah from going to college out of state because they can’t trust her anymore? [/QUOTE] I don’t think that will work. The only power they have over Sarah is the purse. If they push her too far she’ll really go out on her own. Sure she might not be able to attend ASU initially, but she go to community college then transfer (by which time she’ll be an Arizona resident). And of course Amanda Seyfried’s film career really seems to be taking off. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2009, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-02-22-they-were-petting-rats/487004/49 "2009-02-26T17:24:46Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > I was trying to point out the ridiculousness of the arguments in last week’s thread. You guys repeatedly killed Bill for waffling on Rhonda testifying. His waffling was because he was trying to protect his family. It’s basically the same thing as not railing on Sarah in that moment. First of all, maybe it’s not such a great idea to carry grudges from week to week in these threads. Who cares if we “kill Bill” or if we don’t like him? I find him to be the least sympathetic and likeable characters on the show, and yes, that includes Roman Grant (mostly because I love Harry Dean Stanton). Second of all, “you guys”? I never said jack about his interactions with Rhonda, but I did say that I thought he was a hypocrite, and I still think so, mostly because he adheres so strictly to some aspects of his Mormonism (the ones that say he should have many wives and children) and ignores the parts about gambling and adultery, which are more fun to break. I think we’re supposed to think he’s a hypocrite. That seems to be part of the point of the story. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2009, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-02-22-they-were-petting-rats/487004/50 "2009-02-26T17:30:02Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > First of all, maybe it’s not such a great idea to carry grudges from week to week in these threads. Who cares if we “kill Bill” or if we don’t like him? I find him to be the least sympathetic and likeable characters on the show, and yes, that includes Roman Grant (mostly because I love Harry Dean Stanton). Second of all, “you guys”? I never said jack about his interactions with Rhonda, but I did say that I thought he was a hypocrite, and I still think so, mostly because he adheres so strictly to some aspects of his Mormonism (the ones that say he should have many wives and children) and ignores the parts about gambling and adultery, which are more fun to break. I think we’re supposed to think he’s a hypocrite. That seems to be part of the point of the story. Yeah, pretty much this. Bill picks and chooses what parts of the religion he can ignore. And at the same time, the parts of his religion where he gets to dominate his wives because he’s a man are just really, really screwed up. Telling Nicki she had to have more kids is just wrong. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2009, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-02-22-they-were-petting-rats/487004/51 "2009-02-26T17:51:31Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > I never said jack about his interactions with Rhonda, but I did say that I thought he was a hypocrite, and I still think so, mostly because he adheres so strictly to some aspects of his Mormonism (the ones that say he should have many wives and children) and ignores the parts about gambling and adultery, which are more fun to break. I think we’re supposed to think he’s a hypocrite. That seems to be part of the point of the story. Has Bill committed adultery? Not to my recollection. Re: gambling…everything I know about Mormons and gambling comes from talking to Mormons who were in Las Vegas to see BYU play Cal in the Las Vegas Bowl, who said that their church disapproves of gambling, but doesn’t completely forbid it. ---
**Author:** ![Indyellen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/indyellen/32/4176_2.png) [@Indyellen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indyellen)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2009, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-02-22-they-were-petting-rats/487004/52 "2009-02-26T17:53:49Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > Has Bill committed adultery? Not to my recollection. Two weeks ago he gave in and slept with Ana before they had even proposed. It was also STRONGLY implied that he and Margene slept together before he brought her in as third wife. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2009, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-02-22-they-were-petting-rats/487004/53 "2009-02-26T18:17:50Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > I did say that I thought he was a hypocrite, and I still think so, mostly because he adheres so strictly to some aspects of his Mormonism (the ones that say he should have many wives and children) and ignores the parts about gambling and adultery, which are more fun to break. I think we’re supposed to think he’s a hypocrite. That seems to be part of the point of the story. I think that’s the exact opposite of what the story is about. It seems obvious to me that the whole point of the show is an exploration of a devout, genuine believer. The show makes no sense if Bill isn’t a true believer. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2009, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-02-22-they-were-petting-rats/487004/54 "2009-02-26T18:20:12Z")
I think he’s a true believer, but that he lies to himself a lot. He’s committed adultery with Ana and probably Margene. His religion frowns on gambling, but he makes his money through it. In the beginning, I thought he was weird but likable, but now he’s really not any better than Roman. I also initially thought his religion was a little odd, but more or less okay. But it seems to give him license to just do whatever he wants. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2009, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-02-22-they-were-petting-rats/487004/55 "2009-02-26T18:20:44Z")
> [@Indyellen](#): > > Two weeks ago he gave in and slept with Ana before they had even proposed. It was also STRONGLY implied that he and Margene slept together before he brought her in as third wife. He actually “proposed” multiple times, in that every time Ana tried to seduce him, he kept telling her they had to be married first. He was also clear that he wanted that. Though he did eventually give in to her feminine wiles. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2009, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-02-22-they-were-petting-rats/487004/56 "2009-02-26T18:22:11Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > He’s committed adultery with Ana and probably Margene. His religion frowns on gambling, but he makes his money through it. It was established on the show that his religion does not frown on making money through gambling or serving alcohol to unbelievers. They just can’t drink or gamble themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2009, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-02-22-they-were-petting-rats/487004/57 "2009-02-26T18:22:26Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > He actually “proposed” multiple times, in that every time Ana tried to seduce him, he kept telling her they had to be married first. He was also clear that he wanted that. Though he did eventually give in to her feminine wiles. Which kind of makes it seem like it was less about him giving into the Holy Spirit or whatever it is that tells him to marry a woman, and more about him wanting to put a ring on his finger so he could get some. > [@EllisDee](#): > > It was established on the show that his religion does not frown on making money through gambling or serving alcohol to unbelievers. But they’re going to be marketing it heavily to Mormons–how is that serving alcohol and providing gamblers to unbelievers? ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2009, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-02-22-they-were-petting-rats/487004/58 "2009-02-26T18:25:52Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > But they’re going to be marketing it heavily to Mormons–how is that serving alcohol and providing gamblers to unbelievers? Because Mormonism is clearly not one monolithic block. Think of Bill’s religion as orthodox Catholicism, with mainstream Mormons being Protestants. Whole different thing, despite using the same books and worshipping the same historical figures. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2009, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-02-22-they-were-petting-rats/487004/59 "2009-02-26T18:27:57Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Which kind of makes it seem like it was less about him giving into the Holy Spirit or whatever it is that tells him to marry a woman, and more about him wanting to put a ring on his finger so he could get some. I don’t follow. How would it be different if it genuinely was about him giving in to the Holy Spirit or whatever? If that were genuine, would Bill not have a sex drive or something? ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2009, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-02-22-they-were-petting-rats/487004/60 "2009-02-26T18:29:32Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > I don’t follow. How would it be different if it genuinely was about him giving in to the Holy Spirit or whatever? If that were genuine, would Bill not have a sex drive or something? If it were about the Holy Spirit, you think he’d ask and she’s say yes because it was the divine way or whatnot. This way it just seems like they start getting intimate and Bill says something like, “Wait, let’s we have to be married first” like they’re living out “Paradise by the Dashboard Lights.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-02-22-they-were-petting-rats/487004.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-02-22-they-were-petting-rats/487004.md?page=4)