# Big Love- 2/15/09 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 16, 2009, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-2-15-09/486098 "2009-02-16T15:18:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-2-15-09/486098/21 "2009-02-20T14:01:39Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](#): > > He’s also trying to build that casino marketed specifically to Mormons living in Utah. There’s a difference between fleecing “outsider” sinners and doing everything you can do lure your own people to sin. Bill says he’s not LDS, but they’re more his people than, say, atheist and lost non-LDS christian gamblers. > > It’s like the difference between a Catholic giving out condoms in inner city public schools and a Catholic giving out Virgin Mary Aproved ™ condoms in a Catholic school. And the whole trying to get a politician to change anti gambling laws. He’s just so manipulative. It’s like he’ll tell anyone anything just to get what he wants. One minute he’s trying to get Rhonda out of their lives to make her go away, the next he’s bringing her back. It’s all about what’s convenient for Bill. And he NEVER thinks anything through. “I know, let’s marry Ana tomorrow! I know, Ana and Nicki can live together–that’ll be great!” Ugh. No. I’m surprised Ana didn’t run screaming earlier. ETA: And if keeping the faith and the principle are so damned important to Bill, does he really think “God” wanted him to marry his last two wives? Sure, they’re sexy but neither of them knows anything about the principle. Margie even tried to teach Ana to “pretend to pray.” And still, Bill is the only one who really knows what God is saying to him. No one else has a clue. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-2-15-09/486098/22 "2009-02-20T14:05:29Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Bill running Weber Gaming is the equivalent of a Catholic running a Planned Parenthood. Would you call that creepy and hypocritical and just plain wrong too? Yes, most definitely YES I would call that creepy and hypocritical and just plain wrong. If you profess to believe something is immoral, but you make tons of money off it, you’re a hypocrite. If you’re going to violate your moral beliefs to make a buck, why not also violate your moral beliefs so that you can care for your existing children? That’s Nicki’s issue, that they can’t afford another wife. She’s right. I’m sure they’re going to come down on her like a ton of bricks when they find out about her being on the pill, but I have to side with Nicki on this. She’s being realistic. Bill is capable of being realistic about money and accepting moral compromises when it suits him, but not if Nicki does it and it harms his need to have a billion kids whether he can afford them or not. > [@](#): > > Also, **Ruby** , when has Bill gambled or committed adultery? And I don’t recall anything about drinking being bad in their religion. Bill and Ana had sex at the end of last season, before they were even officially dating, behind his other wives’ backs. That’s adultery. Mormons are not supposed to drink alcohol, which is a tenet of their faith. Do you think the casinos are going to be dry? I doubt it. ---
**Author:** ![accidentalyuppie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@accidentalyuppie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/accidentalyuppie)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-2-15-09/486098/23 "2009-02-20T14:07:23Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > If the Catholic was always going on about how they have to keep the faith and resist temptation to sin and how wrong abortion and contraception was…yeah. Does the Principle say you’re supposed to fleece the sinners? In that case, okay, Bill may not be a hypocrite. But his faith sure as hell is fucked up in my view. No wonder Sarah wants to get the hell out of dodge. In mainstream Mormonism, IIRC, married couples are not prohibited from using birth control even though good Mormons are supposed to have as many kids as they are able to support. Of course, hiding your birth control from you husband is a different story and against the rules on many levels. Drinking is a BIG no-no, though…any “mood-altering” substance, including caffeine, is strictly forbidden. A joke from Salt Lake City Q. why do you always have to take at least two Mormons with you when you go fishing? A. If you only take one he’ll drink all your beer. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-2-15-09/486098/24 "2009-02-20T14:12:59Z")
> [@accidentalyuppie](#): > > In mainstream Mormonism, IIRC, married couples are not prohibited from using birth control even though good Mormons are supposed to have as many kids as they are able to support. > > Of course, hiding your birth control from you husband is a different story and against the rules on many levels. I just think it’s sad she has to hide it. And why are these people so eager to procreate? What if Barb were still fertile–would she still be popping them out? At some point, isn’t there too many? Is fifteen too many? Twenty? Thirty? At some point, Bill’s not going to have any relationship with some of his kids because he’ll be spread too thin. He barely pays attention to anyone except Ben as it is. And why do we never see the other kids? Margene we see holding Nell, but her other boys seem to have vanished. ---
**Author:** ![accidentalyuppie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@accidentalyuppie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/accidentalyuppie)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-2-15-09/486098/25 "2009-02-20T14:24:00Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Also, **Ruby** , when has Bill gambled or committed adultery? And I don’t recall anything about drinking being bad in their religion. Didn’t he slip up and sleep with Anna once while they were dating? ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-2-15-09/486098/26 "2009-02-20T14:44:15Z")
> [@accidentalyuppie](#): > > Didn’t he slip up and sleep with Anna once while they were dating? I’m pretty sure he did with Margene if not with Ana. They haven’t come out and said it but it’s hinted at very strongly, no? It’s not like dating/marrying Margie was some great spiritual calling. It seems more like he brought home a hot girl to babysit the kids and decided he wanted to boink her. How creepy must it be to see your dad shacking up with women like this? I feel so bad for Sarah every time I think of how it is from her perspective. Ben seems to like the lifestyle, but I know it’s tearing her apart, and with very good reason. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-2-15-09/486098/27 "2009-02-20T14:48:40Z")
> [@accidentalyuppie](#): > > In mainstream Mormonism, IIRC, married couples are not prohibited from using birth control even though good Mormons are supposed to have as many kids as they are able to support. And the excellent point you are making, which is lost on Bill (and Barb too, it seems), is that you have as many children _as you can afford_. The Henricksons are strapped for cash, and it’s clear they are being unrealistic when they think they can afford to set up another Henrickson franchise on the block, with more infants in it. The problem with the polygamous sects, and why they run afoul of the government, is that they have more children than they can afford, who then wind up on welfare by the droves. Well, that and the underage brides. > [@](#): > > Of course, hiding your birth control from you husband is a different story and against the rules on many levels. I can imagine that most couples, Mormon or not, might have a problem with that, but Bill and Barb are not particularly rational on this subject. I’m sure Nicki felt quite desperate. She’s going against everything she believes in by using the pill in secret. As much as I dislike her, and agree that her lying is wrong, I can’t really blame her for her choice. I predict that Nicki has an affair with her lawyer boss guy, or at least considers it. Maybe he’ll decide to “save” her from her polygamous lifestyle. Bill and Ana had sex a few times, and they weren’t supposed to have sex at all outside of marriage. Definitely adultery. As for Margene’s kids, I think we saw Ana playing with them Aaron and Lester, didn’t we? Or were those Nicki’s boys? ---
**Author:** ![quixotic78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/3ab097/32.png) [@quixotic78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/quixotic78)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-2-15-09/486098/28 "2009-02-20T15:45:29Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Also, **Ruby** , when has Bill gambled or committed adultery? And I don’t recall anything about drinking being bad in their religion. Others have already covered the drinking and the adultery, but as far as gambling, when Bill was talking to his brother-in-law Ted a few episodes ago, he mentioned how the two of them were gambling in Lake Tahoe (as I recall). So he’s done all of those things. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-2-15-09/486098/29 "2009-02-20T16:33:44Z")
I loved how when things were falling apart at home (not that they ever came together!) Bill’s response was to ask Ana to go away with him for a honeymoon. Yeah, that’ll smooth things over with the other wives. I think Bill realized it wasn’t going to work and maybe that’s why he ordered Ana to live with Nicki. He didn’t have the guts to end it himself, didn’t want to admit it was a bad idea, so he let Nicki be the bad guy. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-2-15-09/486098/30 "2009-02-20T21:33:57Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > …I predict that Nicki has an affair with her lawyer boss guy, or at least considers it. Maybe he’ll decide to “save” her from her polygamous lifestyle… The moment he finds out who she really is it’ll be over. This was probally the biggest case of his career so far. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-2-15-09/486098/31 "2009-02-20T21:38:14Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > The moment he finds out who she really is it’ll be over. This was probally the biggest case of his career so far. If he finds out, would they be able to re-try Roman? Nicki tampered with witnesses, or aided and abetted tampering. Not to mention charges against Nicki and maybe Adaleen, and the sister who perjured herself. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-2-15-09/486098/32 "2009-02-20T22:08:43Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > If he finds out, would they be able to re-try Roman? Nicki tampered with witnesses, or aided and abetted tampering. Not to mention charges against Nicki and maybe Adaleen, and the sister who perjured herself. IANAL, but I think double jeopardy would prevent Roman from being retried. It’s all but impossible for an acquittal to be overturned in the US. He could (along with Nikki & Adaleen) be tried for obstruction of justice, but they’d need to be able to prove he knew what Adaleen was doing. It’d be helpfull if they could find those guards Adaleen bribed to let Nikki & Rhonda visit him without signing the register. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-2-15-09/486098/33 "2009-02-20T22:15:45Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > IANAL, but I think double jeopardy would prevent Roman from being retried. Not necessarily. In the event of jury or witness tampering, double jeopardy may not apply, since the defendant was actually not in jeopardy in the first place. But I understand it’s a pretty hairy area of the law. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-2-15-09/486098/34 "2009-02-21T00:43:52Z")
Most of you equate Bil’s faith with Mormonism, but I think that’s a stretch. My impression is they view Mormons every bit heathen as atheists or Buddhists. Isn’t the DA, and pretty much everyone in the DA’s office, mormon? Nicky’s contact referred to the DA as “pretty nice for a heathen.” I’m not convinced that setting up a casino for and serving alcohol to Mormons (heathens) is bad in Bill’s faith. I don’t recall Bill and Ana sleeping together. Refresh my memory? I don’t actually know why Nicky is taking birth control. I assumed she was doing it during the trial to avoid getting pregnant so she could stay in the DA’s office, assuming a lengthy trial. I don’t recall the issue being revisited since the trial ended. But if it’s because of money issues, it can’t be because of the family’s finances. We’re talking about Nicky, the woman who racked up tens of thousands of dollars in credit card debt buying shoes or whatever. If she’s on the pill because of money, it’s out of guilt. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-2-15-09/486098/35 "2009-02-21T00:52:01Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > That’s Nicki’s issue, that they can’t afford another wife. She’s right. I’m sure they’re going to come down on her like a ton of bricks when they find out about her being on the pill, but I have to side with Nicki on this. She’s being realistic. Nicky isn’t on the pill because of money; she just wants somebody else to carry the babies. That was the one positive thing she said about Ana, that she could help shoulder the babymaking load. I never understood Nicky’s objection to Ana. It would raise her “power”, in that there would now be two wives “underneath” her instead of one. Then again, her incessant digs that ultimately drove Ana away were directed at Barb, not Ana. More specifically, she riled up Margene against Barb. Seemed to me she just wanted to take Barb down a peg. She didn’t seem to dislike or be meaner to Ana than she feels and acts toward Margene, so I didn’t get the impression it was personal. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-2-15-09/486098/36 "2009-02-21T00:56:06Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Nicky isn’t on the pill because of money; she just wants somebody else to carry the babies. That was the one positive thing she said about Ana, that she could help shoulder the babymaking load… They showed Nikki taking birth control way back in season 1. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-2-15-09/486098/37 "2009-02-21T01:04:17Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > He’s just so manipulative. It’s like he’ll tell anyone anything just to get what he wants. One minute he’s trying to get Rhonda out of their lives to make her go away, the next he’s bringing her back. It’s all about what’s convenient for Bill. This really seems like an unfair attack just because you don’t like the character. He originally wanted Rhonda to leave town instead of testifying because _his family_ would have been called to impeach her character. He was trying to keep his children off the witness stand, which would have outed them as polygamists. When he found out that Roman sanctioned rape, he had to stand up for what was right no matter what. That meant putting Rhonda on the stand despite the fact that his family would then get called to testify. This hardly seems like he’s doing whatever on a whim just to get what he wants. It’s more like a man protecting his family, and then standing up for what’s right despite it being the harder thing. I think Bill is a poor deluded fool for buying into his dopey faith, but in the context of his faith, I think he’s been a stand-up guy from day one. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-2-15-09/486098/38 "2009-02-21T01:05:35Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > They showed Nikki taking birth control way back in season 1. Really? I don’t remember that at all. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-2-15-09/486098/39 "2009-02-21T01:35:34Z")
Just went through some of the official epsiode guides to answer some of the questions we have. Is Bill an adulterer? [Episode 25](http://www.hbo.com/biglove/episode/season3/episode25.html) > [@](#): > > In spite of Bill’s continued attempts to resist Ana, insisting he needs a ring on her finger, she eventually seduces him - but Bill is disgusted with himself. Barb and Margene confront him when he returns home and Bill declares it’s over for good with Ana. Why doesn’t Nicki want to have another baby? [Episode 26](http://www.hbo.com/biglove/episode/season3/episode26.html) > [@](#): > > Nicki confides to her mother that she doesn’t want to have another baby, having seen that Adaleen resented having so many children that it made her more mother and less wife. Her mother chastises Nicki for being selfish. Why did Bill waffle on Rhonda testifying? > [@](#): > > [Episode 26](http://www.hbo.com/biglove/episode/season3/episode26.html) > At the prison, Roman asks to see Bill alone after his blessing, and demands his help locating Rhonda (who Nicki has discovered is one of the Jane Does). If Rhonda is a witness, Roman warns, he will make sure Bill’s wives and children are called to testify about her credibility – thereby exposing them in public. Backed into a corner, Bill realizes he has to stop Rhonda. > [Episode 27](http://www.hbo.com/biglove/episode/season3/episode26.html) > Wanda reveals that Nicki was also forced to marry “JJ” against her will when she was 15 - but Roman eventually unsealed her. Stunned, Bill asks why Nicki never told him, but Nicki insists it’s not true. > … > Bill confides to Barb that he realizes what Roman’s done is evil and they have to stand up against him at any cost. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-2-15-09/486098/40 "2009-02-21T02:28:01Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Nicky isn’t on the pill because of money; she just wants somebody else to carry the babies. That was the one positive thing she said about Ana, that she could help shoulder the babymaking load. She also said, at one point, “We can’t afford her!” Barb agreed but said it was necessary to keep making babies. You have to admit that Nicki comes off looking like the saner person in that situation. She feels like the family is large enough, and I’d say she’s right. Sarah would certainly agree. The drinking and gambling are definitely not OK with Bill’s religion. There was debate in the family over it, and why would there be if were fine? Yes, Bill can set aside his religious beliefs when it suits him, and can be stickler when it suits him. He’s a classic hypocrite. I’m not sure how you can even deny that. He might be a likable hypocrite, but that’s about the best I can say for him. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-2-15-09/486098.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-2-15-09/486098.md?page=3)