# Big Love 3/8 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 10, 2009, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-3-8/488941 "2009-03-10T12:31:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![LVBoPeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/858c86/32.png) [@LVBoPeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LVBoPeep)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2009, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-3-8/488941/21 "2009-03-11T21:28:42Z")
I thought the church’s response was pretty reasonable- basically boiling down to if you don’t like it, don’t watch it or bring attention to it. Oh… and J.J called Wanda “little sister”. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2009, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-3-8/488941/22 "2009-03-12T01:53:21Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > Because they still live in a heavily Mormon area and Bill is a business owner. No one will work with him if he’s seen openly as a sinner, which will cause his businesses to crumble. But all this stuff came out at the end of season one. People defaced a couple of billboards, but…nothing. > [@yellowval](#): > > I also loved the fact that it was okay for _Bill_ to interfere with the trial and tamper with witnesses, but not Nicki. I got the feeling that if Nicki had been working for Bill in that courthouse instead of Adaleen/Roman, it would have been just peachy by him. Yeah. I do think Nicki did wrong, but Bill interfered, too. And he committed adultery with Margene and Ana before they were officially married, but there was never any OH MY GOD, ADULTERY moment. I mean, I don’t think Nicki should’ve taken up with sexy DA man. But it’s so easy to find someone attractive and flirt–Bill finds himself doing that all the time, but when he does it, it’s because Heavenly Father has ordained it. Who played JJ? My mom and I thought the actor looked very familiar. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2009, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-3-8/488941/23 "2009-03-12T01:56:04Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Who played JJ? My mom and I thought the actor looked very familiar. The omnipresent (but awesome) Zeljko Ivanek, who it seems is everywhere these days. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2009, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-3-8/488941/24 "2009-03-12T01:57:23Z")
The guy from School Ties! That’s what I know him from! ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2009, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-3-8/488941/25 "2009-03-12T02:59:54Z")
> [@singular1](#): > > [So now the Mormons are mad at HBO because they’ll be showing an Endowment ceremony](http://tv.yahoo.com/big-love/show/36538/news/urn:newsml:tv.ap.org:20090311:tv_mormon_church_hbo__ER:38548). Mormon and ex-Mormon Dopers, what is this ceremony about? And why will it embarrass the church? The church holds the ceremony sacred and probably feels that HBO will make light of it or profane it, would be my guess. Much of Mormon ritual has its basis in Mason rituals, as well, which they may consider “secret”. ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2009, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-3-8/488941/26 "2009-03-12T03:00:37Z")
> [@singular1](#): > > [So now the Mormons are mad at HBO because they’ll be showing an Endowment ceremony](http://tv.yahoo.com/big-love/show/36538/news/urn:newsml:tv.ap.org:20090311:tv_mormon_church_hbo__ER:38548). Mormon and ex-Mormon Dopers, what is this ceremony about? And why will it embarrass the church? Well, I assume this will be hashed out in the thread for Big Love 3/15, but Mormons are extremely sensitive about the temple ceremony. During the ceremony, you have to covenant never to reveal the signs and tokens you learn there (which are actually masonic handshakes and gestures) but modern Mormons have taken it to mean that you can’t discuss anything that goes on in the temple except in general terms. They say it is too sacred to discuss with outsiders. As someone who has been many, many times, I don’t see what the big deal is. What’s embarrassing? [ul] [li]The clothes. Men have to wear silly-looking baker-type hats that have a string that you tie to a loop on the shoulder of the robe. Women wear white veils. Both sexes wear green aprons that represent what Adam and Eve wore in the Garden of Eden. It looks pretty kooky once you get the whole outfit together.[/li][li]The masonic handshakes. There are a series of signs, gestures, and words that you learn that supposedly you will have to give to the angels in order to get to heaven. These signs and gestures are masonic in origin, and in fact any mason will recognize them. Joseph Smith borrowed liberally from the masons when he crafted the temple ceremony.[/li][li]The penalties. This has been changed now, but before 1990, when you learned the masonic handshakes, you promised never to reveal them, “[r]ather than do so, I would suffer my life to be taken.” Then you mimed the “penalty” for each sign, which included miming your throat being cut, being disemboweled, etc. If this is a flashback to a pre-1990 temple ceremony, it should include the penalties, which Mormons don’t like to talk about.[/li][/ul] You can find the complete text of the temple ceremony online by simply googling “Mormon temple ceremony,” but other than the masonic parts, it’s not too exciting. There is a _lengthy_ retelling of the creation story and a lot of “Jehovah, let us go down.” ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2009, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-3-8/488941/27 "2009-03-12T06:55:12Z")
One thing I hate about Bill is that he makes everyone else do his dirty work–like when he made Joey take the UEB Council seat or when he made Don skip his deposition to go meet with casino guy. Also, is Bill (and possibly Margene) the only one who still thinks Weber gaming was a good idea? ETA: Speaking of characters who are sympathetic, I used to like Margene but she’s really getting harder to like. I used to think Barb was awesome but she can be really cold. I feel more sympathetic towards Nicki even though she’s making really bad decisions. Probably I like Sarah the best. Oh, and DA guy. Loved when he told everyone off. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2009, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-3-8/488941/28 "2009-03-12T07:07:42Z")
I loathe Nikki passionately…everything about her personality and the way she behaves is abhorrent to me. I won’t say the word that I’d use to describe her, but it starts with a C and ends with a T, and there’s a U and an N in it too, and it’s not “coconut.” (By the way, whenever I watch Big Love, I keep waiting for one of the straight-laced Mormons to use a swear word in a moment of intense frustration, and it never happens. I guess swear words are just not part of their vocabulary. The only person on the show who ever swears is Bill’s crude, disgusting father Frank (Bruce Dern.) I keep waiting for Marge (who was not raised in an uptight environment) to just snap and call one of the other characters a fucking bitch, or something. Nikki is spiteful, hateful, rude, vindictive, never lets anyone else have a good time, makes it a personal mission to enforce a “no-fun” rule at all times, and is basically the ultimate kill-joy of all time. I cannot stand her character, and I would love it if during one of her bitching sessions, Vincent Gallo would suddenly appear and shove a nine-inch cock down her throat. My favorite character is definitely Joey. A stand-up guy in the extreme. Sensitive, kind, strong, down-to-earth - he’s far and away the most likable male character on the whole show. I am really hoping that he becomes a bigger part of the story, and it’s certainly looking that way from how the show is developing. I just hope he doesn’t get killed off. ---
**Author:** ![singular1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ba9def/32.png) [@singular1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/singular1)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2009, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-3-8/488941/29 "2009-03-12T11:45:19Z")
I’m sure Margene has sworn on a couple of occasions. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2009, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-3-8/488941/30 "2009-03-12T13:45:55Z")
> [@Erdosain](#): > > …If this is a flashback to a pre-1990 temple ceremony, it should include the penalties, which Mormons don’t like to talk about… If it’s not a flashback then why would Barb be undergoing an Endowment ceremony if she’s about to be excomunicated? Correct me if I’m wrong, but even without the church knowing about their lifestyle neither Bill or Barb are allowed to even set foot in a temple because they’re non active in the church. ---
**Author:** ![filling\_pages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b9bd4f/32.png) [@filling\_pages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filling_pages)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2009, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-3-8/488941/31 "2009-03-12T16:06:48Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > But all this stuff came out at the end of season one. People defaced a couple of billboards, but…nothing. Not quite. That was what prompted Bill to start looking for avenues of revenue that wouldn’t suffer because of his family situation, like the gambling machines and casino. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2009, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-3-8/488941/32 "2009-03-12T16:57:59Z")
> [@filling\_pages](#): > > Not quite. That was what prompted Bill to start looking for avenues of revenue that wouldn’t suffer because of his family situation, like the gambling machines and casino. But is their revenue down from Henrickson Home Plus? There doesn’t seem to have been any fall out. ---
**Author:** ![filling\_pages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b9bd4f/32.png) [@filling\_pages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filling_pages)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2009, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-3-8/488941/33 "2009-03-12T17:40:37Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > But is their revenue down from Henrickson Home Plus? There doesn’t seem to have been any fall out. Yes, their income is down. They’ve mentioned it a few times, as when Nicki had to do her own roof work. Now, Bill tends to ignore that when it comes to, say, adding wives and having babies, but he’s not the sharpest knife in the drawer anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2009, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-3-8/488941/34 "2009-03-12T17:42:15Z")
> [@filling\_pages](#): > > Yes, their income is down. They’ve mentioned it a few times, as when Nicki had to do her own roof work. Now, Bill tends to ignore that when it comes to, say, adding wives and having babies, but he’s not the sharpest knife in the drawer anyway. And buying new cars to bribe his daughter into sticking around…yeah, I so don’t get these people and their weird mindsets! ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2009, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-3-8/488941/35 "2009-03-12T20:37:57Z")
I do not like Nicki, because she is a passive-aggressive killjoy and a liar. I do feel sorry for her, and I can understand why she’s rebelling as she is these days. However, what she did to that DA’s case, which did contribute to Kathy’s death, was unconscionable. Yes, Bill is an adulterer, but deceiving that DA and starting a romance with him was also wrong. And while I sympathize with her desire not to have any more kids, the way she lied about it and manipulated everyone was also wrong. It will be enjoyable to see her get her comeuppance, if she is indicted as the DA indicated she might be. Will she crack and tell on her father for putting her up to it? Can Roman be tried again if Nicki admits to tampering with the prosecution’s case? Things could get quite interesting with Nicki on the hot seat, and it couldn’t happen to a nicer girl. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-3-8/488941.md?page=1)