# Big Love 5:03 "Certain Poor Shepherds"- Open Spoilers **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 31, 2011, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-5-03-certain-poor-shepherds-open-spoilers/569615 "2011-01-31T06:13:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Fair\_Rarity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fair_rarity/32/153_2.png) [@Fair\_Rarity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fair_Rarity)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-5-03-certain-poor-shepherds-open-spoilers/569615/21 "2011-02-02T03:03:21Z")
> [@Indyellen](#): > > My main issue is the storyline with Bill’s mom. It’s only supposed to be a month after the end of last season, and last season she was FINE. I can maybe write some of it off to the trauma of the whole Green debacle, but for her to be that far gone that fast seems terribly unrealistic. I could be wrong, though; thankfully I’ve never had to deal with that in a family member. I don’t know if it’s medically possible or we could chalk it up to maybe she has been progressing rapidly but until this week we only saw the good moments, but I think it’s just more bizarro time compression/expansion. Show is off the air for nearly a year, but only one night passes when it’s the season premiere. The kids are older, the grown-ups have new hair… The writers can’t pick a timeline and stick with it. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-5-03-certain-poor-shepherds-open-spoilers/569615/22 "2011-02-02T03:43:34Z")
I have a friend who specializes in geriatric dementia who told me once that mental declines among the elderly are rarely sudden in actuality but they often seem that way. The reason is that the elderly, just like everybody else, develop coping mechanisms to keep up appearances when things go wrong and this includes when their mental properties begin to slip a tad; when they hit a speedbump it affects their ability to cope as well so the appearance to others, especially to those who don’t see them everyday, it seems much steeper decline than it is. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-5-03-certain-poor-shepherds-open-spoilers/569615/23 "2011-02-02T04:31:58Z")
Added to the above: endearments are a popular coping mechanism. “Well hi there! How are you _sugarpie_! How’s your _baby_?” to a loved one might be "Well hi there? How are you… person-I-know-I-should-recognize-but-I-don’t! How are things with whoever-the-hell-is-of-importance-to-you (since a baby, a husband, a dog, a grown child or a significant other or a project could all be interpreted as “your baby”). Or “My glasses need changing… I can’t make out heads or tails from this thing…” might mean “I can’t remember how to read”. The majority of the times these things are really what they sound like- endearments or my glasses need changing- but they’re examples of things that can be used to cover a multitude of confusion. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-5-03-certain-poor-shepherds-open-spoilers/569615/24 "2011-02-02T06:01:57Z")
I think a character developing dementia as a plot device is kind of cheap and played out. I already went through this with Junior on _The Sopranos_…you know, that show that used to be on right before _Big Love._ You’d think the latter show’s creators would have shot for something more original after another _major_ HBO show made dementia a _major_ plotline. Yes, as soon as Bill started talking about how he was going to change the sacrament ritual, I knew it was going to be Ben and NOT Barb. Yes, poor fake. Nicki, as usual, is a miserable cunt. She takes _every_ opportunity to revel in other peoples’ mishaps. When Margene was making her tearful confession about her true age, Nicki was standing there like the ultimate ice-cold bitch of all time, staring daggers into her. UGH. No way could someone as graceful and dignified as Caralynn be the daughter of that harpy. ---
**Author:** ![Dogzilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@Dogzilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogzilla)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-5-03-certain-poor-shepherds-open-spoilers/569615/25 "2011-02-02T13:47:01Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > I have a friend who specializes in geriatric dementia who told me once that mental declines among the elderly are rarely sudden in actuality but they often seem that way. The reason is that the elderly, just like everybody else, develop coping mechanisms to keep up appearances when things go wrong and this includes when their mental properties begin to slip a tad; when they hit a speedbump it affects their ability to cope as well so the appearance to others, especially to those who don’t see them everyday, it seems much steeper decline than it is. I thought she was acting pretty batshit crazy in the last couple of episodes from the last season, so the sudden intensity of her dementia doesn’t come as a surprise to me. I sort of saw it coming. Who takes their grandkid to Mexico to hustle exotic birds? ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-5-03-certain-poor-shepherds-open-spoilers/569615/26 "2011-02-02T17:57:00Z")
I wonder if Frank’s going to be on the show this season. The character’s despicable of course and I doubt he’ll be heartbroken over Lois’s decline, but I love Bruce Dern’s characterization of him. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-5-03-certain-poor-shepherds-open-spoilers/569615/27 "2011-02-02T18:23:53Z")
I would love it if Frank showed up, but totally polished, manicured and clean-cut. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-5-03-certain-poor-shepherds-open-spoilers/569615/28 "2011-02-02T18:27:55Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > Yes, as soon as Bill started talking about how he was going to change the sacrament ritual, I knew it was going to be Ben and NOT Barb. Yes, poor fake. I just kept wondering how Bill is stupid enough to “unwittingly” mislead people like this. He’s been pretty consistently characterized as clueless, but it’s still an obstacle to the drama. > [@](#): > > She takes _every_ opportunity to revel in other peoples’ mishaps. When Margene was making her tearful confession about her true age, Nicki was standing there like the ultimate ice-cold bitch of all time, staring daggers into her. Not that she’s full of the milk of human kindness, but if she really did think the marriage was a bad idea - and I have no idea if she’s taken that position before - I’m not sure how sympathetic I would expect her to be. My big problem with that scene is that I had a lot of trouble believing the age of consent in Utah is 18. But I was sort of wrong. You have to be 18 to get married in Utah, _but_ you can get married at 15 with court approval or 16 with parental consent (which they obviously could have gotten but didn’t). Excluding marriage, the age of consent to sex in Utah is 16 for women and 18 for men. (You read that right.) The Romeo and Juliet exception lasts 10 years, meaning it’s OK if your partner is up to 10 years older. If I remember right, Bill and Margene had a ‘he’s shtupping the babysitter’ thing before they got married, and regardless of the law, Barb evidently would not have approved of the marriage if she’d known the truth. Politically it could be very damaging, but why did Bill want their licenses again? > [@](#): > > No way could someone as graceful and dignified as Caralynn be the daughter of that harpy. After Nicki left, Cara Lynn was raised by someone even more horrible, so it kind of makes sense that … wait, no it doesn’t. In any case you can expect her to fall apart as she deals with the fact that her father is dead (and perhaps learn that her grandmother murdered him because of the horrible stuff he was doing). ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-5-03-certain-poor-shepherds-open-spoilers/569615/29 "2011-02-02T20:00:03Z")
I like the underage Margene plotline and I hope they do something with it, the show has a tendency to start plotlines and abandon them for long periods of time. I’m thinking maybe her next bombshell should be that she was collecting state aid as a single mom during her marriage ( for a little extra spending money…)…that would really fry Bill. I like seeing Lura as the escaping wife and didn’t see it coming…although the whole religon must be difficult to swallow now that she knows that Alby’s a fraud. Maybe it was the threat of losing her kids …Warren Jeffs made all his followers give them legal custody of all their kids ( for those who thought killing the dogs was over the top ) and as he began to crack down on his followers he excommunicated a lot of highly placed men and reassigned wives and children…did Alby do anything like that yet? I have trouble seeing Lura working within the legal system, though. I think I would like to see a character based on Flora Jessup, she’s an escaped polygamist who was somewhat of a vigilante crusader when it comes to rescuing young girls and she doesn’t always cooperate with the legal system. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-5-03-certain-poor-shepherds-open-spoilers/569615/30 "2011-02-02T20:05:31Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > I like the underage Margene plotline and I hope they do something with it, the show has a tendency to start plotlines and abandon them for long periods of time. I’m thinking maybe her next bombshell should be that she was collecting state aid as a single mom during her marriage ( for a little extra spending money…)…that would really fry Bill. I first thought “Wouldn’t Bill have seen her birth certificate?” but then it occurred “No, the marriage isn’t legal so why would he need to?” If this show were real I could almost guarantee you Nicky would have done that (the state aid thing). ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-5-03-certain-poor-shepherds-open-spoilers/569615/31 "2011-02-02T20:06:59Z")
There are only seven episodes left, so there’s not a whole lot of time remaining to add characters and plotlines. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-5-03-certain-poor-shepherds-open-spoilers/569615/32 "2011-02-02T20:15:38Z")
They’re obviously going to do something with Christian Campbell’s character (hopefully involving showing him naked). I’m wondering if he might be Cara Lynn’s half-brother through JJ; far fetched and soap operatic, but possible and no less feasible than an old woman easily hacking off a cult leader’s arm with no repercussions. ---
**Author:** ![Dogzilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@Dogzilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogzilla)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-5-03-certain-poor-shepherds-open-spoilers/569615/33 "2011-02-02T20:16:01Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > \>snip\>Politically it could be very damaging, but why did Bill want their licenses again? > \ He needed their licenses to buy the guns, apparently. Another point: how clueless and ill-advised is it to buy guns for three women in three houses full of small children? Maybe it’s just me, but that’s one of the most senseless things I’ve ever seen. I believe that there’s no place for firearms in the house with small children. ---
**Author:** ![Dogzilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@Dogzilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogzilla)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-5-03-certain-poor-shepherds-open-spoilers/569615/34 "2011-02-02T20:18:11Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > \ > > I like seeing Lura as the escaping wife and didn’t see it coming…although the whole religon must be difficult to swallow now that she knows that Alby’s a fraud. Maybe it was the threat of losing her kids …Warren Jeffs made all his followers give them legal custody of all their kids ( for those who thought killing the dogs was over the top ) and as he began to crack down on his followers he excommunicated a lot of highly placed men and reassigned wives and children…did Alby do anything like that yet? > \ **Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-5-03-certain-poor-shepherds-open-spoilers/569615/35 "2011-02-02T20:20:24Z") > [@Dogzilla](#): > > He needed their licenses to buy the guns, apparently. Ah, right. So there’s no reason he ever needs to tell anybody else. ---
**Author:** ![Dogzilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@Dogzilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogzilla)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-5-03-certain-poor-shepherds-open-spoilers/569615/36 "2011-02-02T20:22:58Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Ah, right. So there’s no reason he ever needs to tell anybody else. Exactly, so now it’s a matter of making sure the press doesn’t get hold of the gun owner applications, do the math, and blow the story open. Thus spaketh the Prophecy of Dogzilla™. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-5-03-certain-poor-shepherds-open-spoilers/569615/37 "2011-02-02T20:34:43Z")
> [@Dogzilla](#): > > Exactly, so now it’s a matter of making sure the press doesn’t get hold of the gun owner applications, do the math, and blow the story open. He’d have to be an idiot to apply in the first place, knowing what he knows, but it wouldn’t be the first time. The press would be able to get some background information on her anyway; the question would be if they could prove the relationship between Bill and Margene started while she was underage. ---
**Author:** ![Eleanor\_of\_Aquitaine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a88e4f/32.png) [@Eleanor\_of\_Aquitaine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eleanor_of_Aquitaine)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-5-03-certain-poor-shepherds-open-spoilers/569615/38 "2011-02-02T20:35:55Z")
I find it hard to believe that no reporter has discovered Margene’s age yet. Surely after Bill went public there would have been a lot of people looking for exactly this kind of damaging information. Especially since Bill makes a point of decrying the underage marriages on the compound. If I were a reporter, I’d have taken one look at Margene and started trying to verify her age. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-5-03-certain-poor-shepherds-open-spoilers/569615/39 "2011-02-02T20:38:40Z")
It wouldn’t be that hard to find out how old Margene is. It’s not really an issue unless you have a reason to think she got involved with Bill when she was underage - and even then, she was old enough to marry him. The public might be skeeved out if they found out she married him when she was 16 (Barb sure was), but that’s not illegal. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-5-03-certain-poor-shepherds-open-spoilers/569615/40 "2011-02-02T21:08:56Z")
I think Margene got pregnant very soon after her marriage, so that would prove it. According to [this site](http://blog.laborlawtalk.com/2006/10/30/utah-criminal-statute-of-limitations-laws/) > [@](#): > > Under the Utah criminal statute of limitations laws, the statute of limitations for sexual assault, or rape, is ten years. Under the new statute, there is no statute of limitations for crimes including rape where there is DNA evidence to identify the suspect. In general, the statute of limitations is 4 years after a felony is committed. In addition, the statute of limitations may be extended for 4 years in certain cases involving sex crimes against children. I wonder if statuatory rape would count as either a \*sexual assault \*or _sex crime against a child_, especially in this case when he believed she was of legal age (and she would testify to that) and there was no force involved. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-5-03-certain-poor-shepherds-open-spoilers/569615.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-love-5-03-certain-poor-shepherds-open-spoilers/569615.md?page=3)