# Big Oil vs. NRA...Dun Dun Dunn-n-n-n **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 2, 2005, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-oil-vs-nra-dun-dun-dunn-n-n-n/315332 "2005-08-02T17:40:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2005, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-oil-vs-nra-dun-dun-dunn-n-n-n/315332/1 "2005-08-02T17:40:24Z")
So it seems the NRA is annoyed with ConocoPhillips because they fired some employees who had guns in their cars at the company parking facilities. [Link](http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050802/ap_on_re_us/nra_boycott_1) Personally, I agree with ConocoPhillips, simply because I think they have the right as any company to dictate the terms of their employment, specifically with regard to actions and activites that take place upon their property. ---
**Author:** ![Renob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8c91f0/32.png) [@Renob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renob)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2005, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-oil-vs-nra-dun-dun-dunn-n-n-n/315332/2 "2005-08-02T17:55:17Z")
As an NRA member, I am a little concerned about the NRA’s stance on this issue. I’m all in favor of gun rights and think the government should do very little to restrain them, but when it comes to private companies I’m of a different mind. Private companies have the right to set whatever rules they want, even if they are stupid. Personally, I think companies that fire workers for leaving guns in their car are dumb, but I don’t think there should be a law to prevent it. The NRA needs to back off on this. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2005, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-oil-vs-nra-dun-dun-dunn-n-n-n/315332/3 "2005-08-02T18:09:41Z")
Sure, they have that right. Of course, the employees have certain rights too. And where the rights of both intersect, the law must instruct. Now, from what I’m led to understand, state law in Oklahoma provides that a secured firearm in a locked trunk isn’t the business of the owner of the parking lot, as a privacy issue and as a claim for liability. If this is state law, a company should abide by it, and let legal gun owners be. ---
**Author:** ![BF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b5ac83/32.png) [@BF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BF)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2005, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-oil-vs-nra-dun-dun-dunn-n-n-n/315332/4 "2005-08-02T18:15:36Z")
> [@renob](#): > > Personally, I think companies that fire workers for leaving guns in their car are dumb, but I don’t think there should be a law to prevent it. The NRA needs to back off on this. The NRA jumped on board because of a new[Brady Bunch](http://www.gunlawsuits.org/defend/business.php) campaign. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2005, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-oil-vs-nra-dun-dun-dunn-n-n-n/315332/5 "2005-08-02T18:23:33Z")
Good for the NRA in picking this fight. The state actually made a law preventing the firings and ConocoPhillips attempted to block it?! That makes this a bigger issue than just some workers in a parking lot. Companies who decide to be on the wrong side of the second ammendment battles should get attacked mercilessly by the NRA. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2005, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-oil-vs-nra-dun-dun-dunn-n-n-n/315332/6 "2005-08-02T18:40:27Z")
Would it be excessively unsympathetic to hope for a mutually destructive outcome? ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2005, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-oil-vs-nra-dun-dun-dunn-n-n-n/315332/7 "2005-08-02T18:41:31Z")
> [@](#): > > Private companies have the right to set whatever rules they want, even if they are stupid. Personally, I think companies that fire workers for leaving guns in their car are dumb, but I don’t think there should be a law to prevent it. The NRA needs to back off on this. But that’s what is at issue here. The NRA is proposing a boycott of Conoco-Phillips because Conoco-Phillips is attempting to block a state law which prohibits companies from firing people who bring guns on company premises in their automobiles. The NRA isn’t boycotting Conoco-Phillips because of any rule Conoco-Phillips has made, but over their opposition to a state law. Or maybe I’m not understanding you, Renob. And the OP has an error in it. It’s **not** Conoco-Phillips who has fired employees over this issue, it’s Weyerhauser. > [@](#): > > After the firings at Weyerhaeuser, the Oklahoma Legislature passed a bill to prevent such terminations. ConocoPhillips filed a federal lawsuit to block the measure. Also notable, the Oklahoma state law covers **locked** firearms only. Persons storing _unlocked_ (although I’m not sure if that means the automobile is locked, or the gun has a trigger lock on it) firearms in their cars on sompnay property can still, presumably, be disciplined and/or terminated. The law also provides liablity protection for the employer from criminal acts commited on the property with such guns. ---
**Author:** ![Rufus\_Xavier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eada6e/32.png) [@Rufus\_Xavier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rufus_Xavier)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2005, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-oil-vs-nra-dun-dun-dunn-n-n-n/315332/8 "2005-08-02T18:43:36Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > Would it be excessively unsympathetic to hope for a mutually destructive outcome? I just got an interesting mental picture of a few hundred NRA activists firing their guns point blank at a 10,000 gallon gasoline storage tank. “Top of the world, Ma!” ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2005, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-oil-vs-nra-dun-dun-dunn-n-n-n/315332/9 "2005-08-02T18:47:17Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > Would it be excessively unsympathetic to hope for a mutually destructive outcome? Just so’s you know, one of the companies the NRA is cheesed off at in this regard is Halliburton. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2005, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-oil-vs-nra-dun-dun-dunn-n-n-n/315332/10 "2005-08-02T18:48:14Z")
Question 1: Why on earth would anybody bring a gun to work in their car, if it’s only going to sit locked up in the locked car in the parking lot? Question 2: How on earth would the company even know whether an employee has a gun locked up in a locked car in the parking lot? I just don’t see why this is an issue for either side. ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2005, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-oil-vs-nra-dun-dun-dunn-n-n-n/315332/11 "2005-08-02T18:52:15Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Question 1: Why on earth would anybody bring a gun to work in their car, if it’s only going to sit locked up in the locked car in the parking lot? So they can go to a shooting range for lunch or after work, maybe? It’s not uncommon for my gun-owning co-workers to do that. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2005, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-oil-vs-nra-dun-dun-dunn-n-n-n/315332/12 "2005-08-02T18:54:13Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Question 1: Why on earth would anybody bring a gun to work in their car, if it’s only going to sit locked up in the locked car in the parking lot? So you can go hunting or shooting before or after work, of course, which is not uncommon at all in many parts of the country. > [@Kimstu](#): > > Question 2: How on earth would the company even know whether an employee has a gun locked up in a locked car in the parking lot? By searching their cars with security guards at the entrance or exit of the lot and making the employee pop the trunk. Sadly, this has been done. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2005, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-oil-vs-nra-dun-dun-dunn-n-n-n/315332/13 "2005-08-02T18:55:39Z")
Accounting to the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health, most workplace violence, particularly homicide and nonfatal assault, is in conjuction with robbery. The most risky being taxicabs, grocery stores and restaurants/bars. Seldom are these acts conducted by employees who’ve spontaneously gone out to retrieve a gun from their car. I don’t see how a rule prohibiting employees from having a gun in their locked cars does anything to make an appreciable difference in workplace violence. It’s just more corporate big-brotherism. ---
**Author:** ![Menocchio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Menocchio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Menocchio)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2005, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-oil-vs-nra-dun-dun-dunn-n-n-n/315332/14 "2005-08-02T18:59:13Z")
Are we talking office buildings, or refineries? Because the latter seems a likely target for terrorism, and a blanket ban on weapons makes a lot of sense, even if the policy sloshes over to the office spaces. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2005, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-oil-vs-nra-dun-dun-dunn-n-n-n/315332/15 "2005-08-02T19:11:58Z")
How many refineries does Weyerhaeuser have? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2005, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-oil-vs-nra-dun-dun-dunn-n-n-n/315332/16 "2005-08-02T19:20:38Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > So you can go hunting or shooting before or after work, of course, which is not uncommon at all in many parts of the country. Oh, I see. Well, is there really a constitutional problem with a workplace banning hazardous recreational equipment from its property? I mean, claiming that the Second Amendment entitles you to carry a gun anywhere for self-defense or to resist tyranny or something is one thing, but I don’t see why a gun should get constitutional special treatment if it’s just sporting equipment. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2005, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-oil-vs-nra-dun-dun-dunn-n-n-n/315332/17 "2005-08-02T19:55:28Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > Would it be excessively unsympathetic to hope for a mutually destructive outcome? Beyond Gun-derdome! ---
**Author:** ![Renob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8c91f0/32.png) [@Renob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renob)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2005, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-oil-vs-nra-dun-dun-dunn-n-n-n/315332/18 "2005-08-02T20:33:58Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > Companies who decide to be on the wrong side of the second ammendment battles should get attacked mercilessly by the NRA. This is certainly not a second amendment issue. It has nothing to do with the government trying to infringe on the right to keep and bear arms. It’s a property rights issue – the owner of property doesn’t want to allow people using that property to bring a firearm on it. Sure, I think that’s stupid, but it’s not my property. The property owner should be able to do what he/she/it wants with the property. Any law that interferes with that property right is a bad law. If a company is trying to get a bad law blocked, then good for them. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2005, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-oil-vs-nra-dun-dun-dunn-n-n-n/315332/19 "2005-08-02T20:41:56Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > So you can go hunting or shooting before or after work, of course, which is not uncommon at all in many parts of the country. Of course. As a hunter, this seems so obvious I didn’t even think to post it. :smack: This seems like exactly what happened: [More cites on the story](http://msnbc.msn.com/id/8796456/) [Even more cites on the story](http://www.texarkanagazette.com/articles/2005/08/02/local_news/news/news05.txt) > [@](#): > > A total of 12 employees at a Weyerhaeuser plant in Valliant were fired after a search turned up guns in their vehicles parked on the company’s property. > > The workers’ cars were searched and weapons seized at the beginning of muzzle-loader deer season. > > In response, Oklahoma Rep. Jerry Ellis introduced a bill in 2004 prohibiting companies from preventing workers from carrying legal firearms in their vehicles. The bill passed the Legislature and was signed into law by Oklahoma Gov. Brad Henry, but several companies, most notably Conoco-Phillips, sued to stop it. The company searched the vehicles and found legally stored guns in accordance to the laws of that state. They then fired the workers. This is bullshit, and I’m glad that Oklahoma politicians have stepped in to stop such actions in the future. I can’t imagine what’s in the heads of these companies such as Conoco-Phillips who want to fight this. What do they have to gain by pissing off all of the pro-gun consumers out there. This is what they have to say: > [@](#): > > Conoco said in a statement that it wants to protect its workers from possible violence. > > “ConocoPhillips supports the Second Amendment and respects the rights of law abiding citizens to own guns,” the company said. “We are simply trying to provide a safe and secure working environment for our employees by keeping guns out of our facilities, including our company parking lots.” :rolleyes: They have a rough ride ahead of them. I hope the NRA thrashes them good. I think I’ll send them a check for $100 to help out. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2005, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-oil-vs-nra-dun-dun-dunn-n-n-n/315332/20 "2005-08-02T20:48:37Z")
The problem here is that folks feel that their job is their birthright. If ConocoPhillips doesn’t want guns on their property than it’s SOL time for you if you feel so strongly. Nothing prevents you from working for someone else. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-oil-vs-nra-dun-dun-dunn-n-n-n/315332.md?page=2)