# Big rich companies doing wrong by their employees, customers or other stakeholders during COVID-19 **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 25, 2020, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-rich-companies-doing-wrong-by-their-employees-customers-or-other-stakeholders-during-covid-19/850232 "2020-03-25T04:16:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2020, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-rich-companies-doing-wrong-by-their-employees-customers-or-other-stakeholders-during-covid-19/850232/21 "2020-04-04T05:13:57Z")
> [@russian\_heel](#): > > Add Royal Caribbean to the list. They canceled a cruise then refused to refund a nurses convention. Nurses— you know the medical professionals risking their lives right now? Not only are they risking their lives for us all, they’re doing it during the [International Year of the Nurse and Midwife](https://www.icn.ch/news/2020-international-year-nurse-and-midwife-catalyst-brighter-future-health-around-globe). ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2020, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-rich-companies-doing-wrong-by-their-employees-customers-or-other-stakeholders-during-covid-19/850232/22 "2020-04-04T14:16:32Z")
American Airlines is packing economy folk together in a few rows. After a recent story about a flight with 11 people all forced to sit together in 3 rows, they “amended” their policy but not enough to prevent [repeats](https://onemileatatime.com/american-airlines-passenger-seating/). Sure, business class and regular coach is completely empty, but unless you pay for the upgrade, enjoy sitting next to the cougher. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2020, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-rich-companies-doing-wrong-by-their-employees-customers-or-other-stakeholders-during-covid-19/850232/23 "2020-04-04T14:30:56Z")
I’m confused. Is it because it is a convention that refund is off the table? The industry standard is for a full refund of cancelled cruises. I had a cruise cancelled and will get a full refund. I had the option to take a beefed up credit instead, but that was my choice. The linked article isn’t clear. It looks to me that the convention organizers opted for the beefed up credit and forced that on the conventioneers; not Royal Caribbean. I’m not sure how cruise conventions work, but I think some of them book the whole ship then act as middlemen. Are you sure it is Royal caribbean that is the bad guy here? The policy for Pandemic cancelled cruises is pretty straightforward and well known. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2020, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-rich-companies-doing-wrong-by-their-employees-customers-or-other-stakeholders-during-covid-19/850232/24 "2020-04-04T14:38:49Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > American Airlines is packing economy folk together in a few rows. After a recent story about a flight with 11 people all forced to sit together in 3 rows, they “amended” their policy but not enough to prevent [repeats](https://onemileatatime.com/american-airlines-passenger-seating/). > > Sure, business class and regular coach is completely empty, but unless you pay for the upgrade, enjoy sitting next to the cougher. Did you read the article you linked? It pretty much refutes the inflammatory headline. ---
**Author:** ![FairyChatMom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fairychatmom/32/21906_2.png) [@FairyChatMom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FairyChatMom)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2020, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-rich-companies-doing-wrong-by-their-employees-customers-or-other-stakeholders-during-covid-19/850232/25 "2020-04-04T16:39:48Z")
And [Hobby Lobby](https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/hobby-lobby-is-closing-all-stores-and-furloughing-nearly-all-retail-employees-without-pay-after-it-defied-stay-at-home-orders-by-quietly-reopening-locations-around-the-nation/ar-BB128K4j?ocid=hplocalnews) is in the news again. Closing all stores and conducting mass furloughing. Very Christian of them, no? And I thought I hated their policies before now. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2020, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-rich-companies-doing-wrong-by-their-employees-customers-or-other-stakeholders-during-covid-19/850232/26 "2020-04-04T18:30:16Z")
The big-chain hotel where one of my state professional conferences was scheduled refused to cancel or move the date for an early spring conference without penalty even after the governor issued a shelter-in-place order. It required a ridiculous number of hours of many board members’, lawyers’, and lobbyists’ time to reach a rescheduling agreement for two years from now, in which the organization might still lose a deposit it can ill afford. ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2020, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-rich-companies-doing-wrong-by-their-employees-customers-or-other-stakeholders-during-covid-19/850232/27 "2020-04-04T18:40:35Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > All the major airlines are screwing with their customers and telling them they have to pay a cancellation fee if they don’t want “store credit” for cancelled flights. This is untrue. I just cancelled round trip tickets on American Airlines for my wife, my daughter, and myself with absolutely no pushback and the refund has already hit my credit card. re: OP I’ve seen a couple of stories where companies intended to deduct the government stimulus check amount from employees wages. One of them rescinded the plan due to public outrage but I don’t know about the rest. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2020, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-rich-companies-doing-wrong-by-their-employees-customers-or-other-stakeholders-during-covid-19/850232/28 "2020-04-04T18:46:25Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **russian heel** : > > Also for everyone crying poverty on behalf the airlines, well the why could t Delta just take my colleagues $600 refund out of their CEOs compensation? He only makes $15 million a year. Is arithmetic really that difficult? They can’t do that because he only makes $15 million per year. That’s enough to cover 25,000 tickets at that price. Which is about a hundred planes’ worth. The airline is looking at more than that in one week, in some airports. Not to mention all the other airports. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2020, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-rich-companies-doing-wrong-by-their-employees-customers-or-other-stakeholders-during-covid-19/850232/29 "2020-04-04T18:57:09Z")
…but, are billionaires billionaires because they have a billion dollars immediately to hand, or are they billionaires because they have assets that are valued at a billion dollars? Bonus question (also possibly inflammatory): What happens to the valuation of a 158 trillion dollars worth of assets\* when all 46.8 million owners\*\* of it try to turn it into spendable/donate-able cash at the same time? \*[(Approximate combined value of the global wealth held by approximately 0.6 percent to the global population)](https://abcnews.go.com/Business/half-worlds-entire-wealth-hands-millionaires/story?id=66440320) \*\* [(Approximate number of global inhabitants comprising the aforementioned top 0.6 percent)](https://abcnews.go.com/Business/half-worlds-entire-wealth-hands-millionaires/story?id=66440320) Look, I’m as socialism-friendly as the next guy (MORE, if the next guy is **D’Anconia** ), but I can’t pretend that these questions aren’t troubling until they’ve been given some consideration. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2020, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-rich-companies-doing-wrong-by-their-employees-customers-or-other-stakeholders-during-covid-19/850232/30 "2020-04-04T19:02:50Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > They can also simply be closed on Sundays. They don’t need to do it with a sign on the door that says “We are closed so our employees can attend church.” But then how could they show off that they are morally superior to you? This is the whole point of their flavor of Christianity - to brag that they are better than others. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2020, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-rich-companies-doing-wrong-by-their-employees-customers-or-other-stakeholders-during-covid-19/850232/31 "2020-04-04T19:06:48Z")
> [@Projammer](#): > > re: OP > I’ve seen a couple of stories where companies intended to deduct the government stimulus check amount from employees wages. One of them rescinded the plan due to public outrage but I don’t know about the rest. It’s never clear from the article, but are these companies who are paying workers 100% of their pay, but staying closed anyway? So people are doing no work, but being compensated as though they are? If that is the case, then I can sympathize with the companies taking the stimulus check. It is meant to help people with no income, and these people have their full income. It really isn’t much like companies that pay people their full income when they are on jury duty, but then expect them to hand over their juror’s pay. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2020, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-rich-companies-doing-wrong-by-their-employees-customers-or-other-stakeholders-during-covid-19/850232/32 "2020-04-04T19:09:05Z")
Jason Kenny, premier of Alberta, decides that now would be a terrific time to [lay off thousands](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/funding-reduction-alberta-k-12-covid-1.5513803)of educational assistants and support staff. Because, hey, we can’t be throwing money at those lazy, overpaid educational assistants, right? Oh, and also, now that bitumen is selling for $4 per barrel, now is clearly is a terrific time to throw 7.5 billion dollars of taxpayer money at a pipeline to get the stuff to market. Gotta keep the corporate welfare going strong. ---
**Author:** ![MissTake](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/misstake/32/3189_2.png) [@MissTake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MissTake)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2020, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-rich-companies-doing-wrong-by-their-employees-customers-or-other-stakeholders-during-covid-19/850232/33 "2020-04-04T19:12:15Z")
> [@FairyChatMom](#): > > And [Hobby Lobby](https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/hobby-lobby-is-closing-all-stores-and-furloughing-nearly-all-retail-employees-without-pay-after-it-defied-stay-at-home-orders-by-quietly-reopening-locations-around-the-nation/ar-BB128K4j?ocid=hplocalnews) is in the news again. Closing all stores and conducting mass furloughing. Very Christian of them, no? > > And I thought I hated their policies before now. Except in some states with stay-at-home orders in place. [Asshats](https://www.businessinsider.com/hobby-lobby-reopened-stores-in-states-with-coronavirus-lockdowns-2020-3). ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2020, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-rich-companies-doing-wrong-by-their-employees-customers-or-other-stakeholders-during-covid-19/850232/34 "2020-04-04T20:52:44Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Is arithmetic really that difficult? They can’t do that because he only makes $15 million per year. That’s enough to cover 25,000 tickets at that price. Which is about a hundred planes’ worth. The airline is looking at more than that in one week, in some airports. Not to mention all the other airports. Fuck off with the snark. You’re the fucking asshole who tried to say it was okay for people to go on spring break during the crisis, and didn’t even know the CDC guidelines. You clearly are not someone who wants to remain up to date, so shut the fuck up with the condescending attitude. You are not a poster we need to hear from, lest it be an apology for your previous dangerous stupidity. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2020, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-rich-companies-doing-wrong-by-their-employees-customers-or-other-stakeholders-during-covid-19/850232/35 "2020-04-04T21:29:43Z")
Damn! ---
**Author:** ![russian\_heel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f05b48/32.png) [@russian\_heel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/russian_heel)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2020, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-rich-companies-doing-wrong-by-their-employees-customers-or-other-stakeholders-during-covid-19/850232/36 "2020-04-04T23:35:32Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > It’s never clear from the article, but are these companies who are paying workers 100% of their pay, but staying closed anyway? So people are doing no work, but being compensated as though they are? > > If that is the case, then I can sympathize with the companies taking the stimulus check. It is meant to help people with no income, and these people have their full income. > > It really isn’t much like companies that pay people their full income when they are on jury duty, but then expect them to hand over their juror’s pay. That’s not their call. It’s the governments. The idea behind the stimulus check is the recipients, working or not, will spend the money and keep the economy moving. When the company takes away the equivalent of that pay, it removes the incentive to spend it. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![russian\_heel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f05b48/32.png) [@russian\_heel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/russian_heel)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2020, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-rich-companies-doing-wrong-by-their-employees-customers-or-other-stakeholders-during-covid-19/850232/37 "2020-04-04T23:37:01Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Is arithmetic really that difficult? They can’t do that because he only makes $15 million per year. That’s enough to cover 25,000 tickets at that price. Which is about a hundred planes’ worth. The airline is looking at more than that in one week, in some airports. Not to mention all the other airports. Regardless of the math, if Delta can’t afford to offer the refund then they can’t afford to pay their fat cat executives million dollar salaries. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![eenerms](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/cdc98d/32.png) [@eenerms](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eenerms)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2020, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-rich-companies-doing-wrong-by-their-employees-customers-or-other-stakeholders-during-covid-19/850232/38 "2020-04-04T23:56:21Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > All the major airlines are screwing with their customers and telling them they have to pay a cancellation fee if they don’t want “store credit” for cancelled flights. > > Smaller airlines like RyanAir are surprisingly just giving out refunds. American Airlines didn’t do this to us. We could change without penalty. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2020, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-rich-companies-doing-wrong-by-their-employees-customers-or-other-stakeholders-during-covid-19/850232/39 "2020-04-05T02:31:09Z")
Moved to the Pit. Colibri Quarantine Zone Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2020, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-rich-companies-doing-wrong-by-their-employees-customers-or-other-stakeholders-during-covid-19/850232/40 "2020-04-05T19:27:21Z")
> [@polar\_bear](#): > > That’s an extremely selfish stand to have. The industry on the verge of collapse, liquidity is terrible to the point where paying wages is almost impossible… and you expect them to be able to refund thousands of tickets. > > Some solidarity is required these days, also with companies (and its employees) that have income fall to zero by no fault of their own. > > Verstuurd vanaf mijn moto g(6) met Tapatalk Yes. I expect them to be honest and to honor their cancellation policies. There is nothing selfish about that. For example, United is displaying it’s flights to countries that have travel bans as on schedule and then cancelling them the night before travel in the hopes that people will travel and pay cancellation fees. American Airlines is pulling the same bullshit act of not cancelling their flights hoping that passengers cancel and pay the cancellation fee. but at least they are honoring the policy that was in place when you first bought the ticket. When I purchased my ticket, the policy was that I get a refund in the event of a cancelled flight. They changed the policy AFTER I bought my ticket and now I get a United Airlines credit. United Airlines has had billions of dollars in stock buybacks in the recent past. The Airline industry is getting a ton of money in the $2 Trillion stimulus bill. So explain to me why I am “extremely” selfish for not wanting to subsidize United Airline’s business risk? United Airlines has filed bankruptcy half a dozen times in my lifetime, those credits might be worthless by the time I can fly again. Why should that money go to their employees/creditors/shareholders/executives rather than their passengers? Are their employees/creditors/shareholders/executives more entitled to that money than their passengers? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-rich-companies-doing-wrong-by-their-employees-customers-or-other-stakeholders-during-covid-19/850232.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-rich-companies-doing-wrong-by-their-employees-customers-or-other-stakeholders-during-covid-19/850232.md?page=3)