# Big Science Fiction OR Fantasy Worlds in Literature **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 13, 2015, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-science-fiction-or-fantasy-worlds-in-literature/712566 "2015-02-13T13:44:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Cartesian\_Rationalist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c89c15/32.png) [@Cartesian\_Rationalist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartesian_Rationalist)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2015, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-science-fiction-or-fantasy-worlds-in-literature/712566/1 "2015-02-13T13:44:31Z")
Hey folks, I have recently “discovered” fantasy fiction, of which I was not familiar with nor a fan. However, once you find a good work, almost any genre can be quite good. In any case, I would like to get straight to the point of this thread: Aside from classic works (Dune, Lord of the Rings, etc.), which more-or-less, contemporary fantasy OR science fiction work would you say is the biggest in terms of the world that is being described? I would be interested in any suggestion, that is, even if the novels mentioned are not science fiction or fantasy per se, that is based on a large, elaborate world, featuring many cities and characters, etc. I purposefully leave the question somewhat ambiguous, so as to get a few suggestions, or tips. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2015, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-science-fiction-or-fantasy-worlds-in-literature/712566/2 "2015-02-13T13:48:36Z")
I’m not sure what you mean by “biggest,” but the Ringworld has the most habitable surface area. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2015, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-science-fiction-or-fantasy-worlds-in-literature/712566/3 "2015-02-13T13:54:20Z")
Iain Banks[Shell Worlds](http://theculture.wikia.com/wiki/Shellworld) are pretty damn big. Totally different habitats and species between levels. ---
**Author:** ![Yodalicious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yodalicious/32/8195_2.png) [@Yodalicious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yodalicious)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2015, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-science-fiction-or-fantasy-worlds-in-literature/712566/4 "2015-02-13T13:57:45Z")
How about Marvel and DC? Their worlds are so big they’ve had to expand to the multiverse. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2015, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-science-fiction-or-fantasy-worlds-in-literature/712566/5 "2015-02-13T14:02:31Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > I’m not sure what you mean by “biggest,” but the Ringworld has the most habitable surface area. Not true. Dyson Spheres typically have a larger area – they just need magical physics (beyond the super-strong _scrith_ needed for Ringworld) in order to keep everyone on the ground. The problem is, habitable Dyson spheres (as opposed to those that simply collect all the solar output) are too damned big. as Bob Shaw observed at the end of his Dyson Sphere novel, **Orbitsville** , they’re civilization-killers. Scarcity doesn’t exist, and it takes forever to fully populate one. It didn’t stop him from writing a sequel, though ( **Orbitsville Departure** ). Dyson spheres show up occasionally in SF (there’s a Dyson Sphere Star Trek novel, and one showed up in the Next Generation Tv series. James P. Hogan’s “Giants” emigrated to another star and buylt a Dyson sphere around it), but they’re rarely the vfocus of the story (as the Ringworld, for instance, is) – people just don’t seem to know what to do with them. ---
**Author:** ![tonyfop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/85f322/32.png) [@tonyfop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tonyfop)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2015, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-science-fiction-or-fantasy-worlds-in-literature/712566/6 "2015-02-13T14:02:31Z")
I hate to be Captain Obvious, but if you want a ton of cities and characters\*, there is always “A Song of Ice and Fire”, the books that HBO’s “Game of Thrones” is based on. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2015, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-science-fiction-or-fantasy-worlds-in-literature/712566/7 "2015-02-13T14:11:54Z")
The universe in which the Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy series takes place is pretty darned big, at least according to the Guide itself: > [@Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy](#): > > Bigger than the biggest thing ever and then some. Much bigger than that in fact, really amazingly immense, a totally stunning size, real ‘wow, that’s big’, time. Infinity is just so big that by comparison, bigness itself looks really titchy. Gigantic multiplied by colossal multiplied by staggeringly huge is the sort of concept we’re trying to get across here. ---
**Author:** ![Art\_Rock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/art_rock/32/525_2.png) [@Art\_Rock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Art_Rock)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2015, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-science-fiction-or-fantasy-worlds-in-literature/712566/8 "2015-02-13T14:20:24Z")
Am I really the first to mention Pratchett’s Discworld? ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2015, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-science-fiction-or-fantasy-worlds-in-literature/712566/9 "2015-02-13T14:33:51Z")
If you mean (as I think you do) extremely detailed and conceptualized worlds originally imagined and described by one author (unlike, say, George Lucas’ Star Wars universe, which always did have an army of artists workin g on aspects of it), then the big players have already been mentioned. I’m awed by the detail that has gone into J.R.R. Tolkien’s Middle Earth. I’m possibly more awed by George R. R., Martin’s world for Song of Ice and Fire, because he didn’t work on it for as long. You can get lost for days in his appendices to those books. Frank Herberts Dune series has quite a bit of detail (now added to by others), as noted. A few others: Larry Niven’s “Known Universe”. It grew up through the decades, with more details added. For the past quarter of a century, other authors have been adding to it viua the “Man-Kzin Wars” series Cordwainer Smith’s “Rediscovery of Man” future – awesomely weird. Robert Heinlein’s “Future History” series Robert E. Howard’s Hyborian Age, along with his various other fictional milieus Clark Ashton Smith’s various wsorlds – Poseidonis, Hyperborea, Xothiqie, Xiccarph, and Averoigne Edgar Rice Burroughs’ Barsoom/Mars, Pellucidar, Venus, and the Africa of Tarzan The connected universe of H. P. Lovecraft Most of these latter, while extensive, were gradually revealed through stories, and you get the sense that the details were chosen simply for interesting story points. Tolkien’s and Martin’s worlds (and Herbert’s Dune, for the most part)seem to have been imagined as cohesive, working, whole units from the get-go, with many aspects conceived in detail with an eye to imagining a fully functioning world. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2015, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-science-fiction-or-fantasy-worlds-in-literature/712566/10 "2015-02-13T16:19:40Z")
The world of the Malazan Book of the Fallen by Steven Erikson (and the companion series Malazan Empire by Ian Esslemont) is pretty damn big. Fifteen GIANT volumes, with hundreds of characters and plots and subplots and subsubplots and gods and almost-gods and regular people all mixed up together. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2015, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-science-fiction-or-fantasy-worlds-in-literature/712566/11 "2015-02-14T01:49:06Z")
I’m not sure what the individual books are but the one collection was “Tales from the Vulgar Unicorn” - Thieves World series? Since different authors contributed you get a real sense of reality on a totally made up world/society. The Xanth series by Piers Anthony is pretty good as well and it seems to be up to like 40 books. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2015, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-science-fiction-or-fantasy-worlds-in-literature/712566/12 "2015-02-14T01:57:58Z")
> [@kopek](#): > > The Xanth series by Piers Anthony is pretty good as well and it seems to be up to like 40 books. Unfortunately, 30 of those are either chock full of horrible puns or chock full of creepiness or both. If you do check out Xanth, I would suggest going no farther than Dragon On A Pedestal (which is the last book that Anthony didn’t completely just give over to his juvenile (a physical description, not an insult) fans and their mailed-in puns). The real pedophilical creepiness doesn’t come in until another couple of books later. Dragon On A Pedestal was what really drew me into fantasy fiction, and it kept me going on Xanth until far later than the place I should have stopped. I think at least four Xanth books have come out now that I just never cared to go find. It just finally got that bad. Besides, Xanth (the place) isn’t really BIG in the physical sense of the word. It’s really no bigger than Florida. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2015, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-science-fiction-or-fantasy-worlds-in-literature/712566/13 "2015-02-14T02:04:13Z")
> [@Cartesian\_Rationalist](#): > > Hey folks, > > I have recently “discovered” fantasy fiction, of which I was not familiar with nor a fan. > > However, once you find a good work, almost any genre can be quite good. In any case, I would like to get straight to the point of this thread: > > Aside from classic works (Dune, Lord of the Rings, etc.), which more-or-less, contemporary fantasy OR science fiction work would you say is the biggest in terms of the world that is being described? > > I would be interested in any suggestion, that is, even if the novels mentioned are not science fiction or fantasy per se, that is based on a large, elaborate world, featuring many cities and characters, etc. > > I purposefully leave the question somewhat ambiguous, so as to get a few suggestions, or tips. > > Thanks! You might like Lord Valentine’s Castle by Robert Silverberg which takes place on a planet significantly larger than Earth, and features a large population of humans, several species of nonhuman intelligences, and an unusual governmental structure. There are several sequels. ---
**Author:** ![Dendarii\_Dame](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bbce88/32.png) [@Dendarii\_Dame](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dendarii_Dame)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2015, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-science-fiction-or-fantasy-worlds-in-literature/712566/14 "2015-02-14T15:56:44Z")
In terms of a large number of characters, I’d recommend Julian May’s Saga of Pliocene Exile, beginning with **The Many-Colored Land**. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2015, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-science-fiction-or-fantasy-worlds-in-literature/712566/15 "2015-02-14T16:31:44Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Unfortunately, 30 of those are either chock full of horrible puns or chock full of creepiness or both. If you do check out Xanth, I would suggest going no farther than Dragon On A Pedestal (which is the last book that Anthony didn’t completely just give over to his juvenile (a physical description, not an insult) fans and their mailed-in puns). The real pedophilical creepiness doesn’t come in until another couple of books later. Dragon On A Pedestal was what really drew me into fantasy fiction, and it kept me going on Xanth until far later than the place I should have stopped. I think at least four Xanth books have come out now that I just never cared to go find. It just finally got that bad. > > Besides, Xanth (the place) isn’t really BIG in the physical sense of the word. It’s really no bigger than Florida. In a kinda way it is Florida; just different. I haven’t gone much past about book 25 so I can’t say for sure but I didn’t get the same kind of creepiness you did. Clearly a couple of the books were written for/to the one actual real girl but I never caught what I would consider a bad vibe. I think what you caught was more that whole “Adult Conspiracy” plot just feeling its limits. The puns did get a bit much and forced through say books 7 to 14 or so but they struck me more as funny in a “groan-er” sense. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2015, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-science-fiction-or-fantasy-worlds-in-literature/712566/16 "2015-02-14T21:20:52Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > You might like Lord Valentine’s Castle by Robert Silverberg which takes place on a planet significantly larger than Earth, and features a large population of humans, several species of nonhuman intelligences, and an unusual governmental structure. There are several sequels. Quite good, too! They’re remarkably thoughtful (okay, yes, that sometimes means a bit slow-moving) and the world-building concepts are quite deep. (Literally, where the Pontifex lives in an underground city.) The first book, Lord Valentine’s Castle, is a “travelogue” of the world, a novel of exploration, and quite inspiring. I’ve heard it said that Silverberg was inspired by Jack Vance’s “Big World,” which is definitely a lesser work (lesser than Silverberg’s, and lesser than most Vance.) ---
**Author:** ![Weedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/weedy/32/301_2.png) [@Weedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weedy)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2015, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-science-fiction-or-fantasy-worlds-in-literature/712566/17 "2015-02-15T02:16:58Z")
David Eddison’s _Belgariad_ Robert Jordan _Wheel of Time_ series There is a whole ton of books about the ‘Forgotten Realms’, plus Dragonlance etc. (These are books based on D&D roleplaying system.) I think this is the standard way to write fantasy, ever since Tolkien did it. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2015, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-science-fiction-or-fantasy-worlds-in-literature/712566/18 "2015-02-15T02:25:52Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Quite good, too! They’re remarkably thoughtful (okay, yes, that sometimes means a bit slow-moving) and the world-building concepts are quite deep. (Literally, where the Pontifex lives in an underground city.) The first book, Lord Valentine’s Castle, is a “travelogue” of the world, a novel of exploration, and quite inspiring. Yeah, I liked Lord Valentine’s Castle very much (read it back in 1980 when it first came out) and read a few of the sequels too. It may be part of the reason that I learned to juggle in the 1990s… ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2015, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-science-fiction-or-fantasy-worlds-in-literature/712566/19 "2015-02-15T02:42:23Z")
Asimov’s Robots and Empire and Foundation novels have a lot of habitable worlds. ---
**Author:** ![keeganst94](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a6a055/32.png) [@keeganst94](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/keeganst94)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2015, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-science-fiction-or-fantasy-worlds-in-literature/712566/20 "2015-02-15T20:20:37Z")
Olaf Stapledon’s Starmaker is a brief history of life in the universe, jumping between hundreds of very different world’s, species, and even galaxies. It’s detailed in terms of biology/history, but the characters and plot are basically there as a framework for a description of the universe. First and Last Men is similar, but about humans (we actually end up on 3 or 4 worlds in that one, I think). It’s not big in the way the other series are, mainly because I think it was too big; he could write normal novels about forever and not really scratch the surface. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-science-fiction-or-fantasy-worlds-in-literature/712566.md?page=2)