# Big sucking void of pain that is Buffy. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 10, 2001, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-sucking-void-of-pain-that-is-buffy/86509 "2001-10-10T04:23:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/74df32/32.png) [@The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Devil_s_Grandmother)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2001, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-sucking-void-of-pain-that-is-buffy/86509/101 "2001-10-18T15:58:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Stoid \* > **And watching \* Politically Incorrect \* the other night I was gratified to learn that I was right: Marsters is faking the accent. I’m so good.** Bother. I’ve become one of those annoying nitpick people. I think _Spike_ is faking the accent, not \*Marsters \*. In the flashback of Spike (back when he was still human) he speaks with a very moderate upper-class accept. Much later, as a bad-ass vampire, Angelus makes fun of Spike for talking like a cockney street urchin. Even in the current season, the accept is less pronouced when he’s talking to Buffy than when he’s trying to annoy Xander. ---
**Author:** ![Peta\_Tzunami](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b487fb/32.png) [@Peta\_Tzunami](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peta_Tzunami)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2001, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-sucking-void-of-pain-that-is-buffy/86509/102 "2001-10-18T16:53:31Z")
I think she means as opposed to no (or an American) accent. James isn’t English at all, therefore, whatever Brittish accent he uses is “faked” for Spike. ---
**Author:** ![Fiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e274bd/32.png) [@Fiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiver)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2001, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-sucking-void-of-pain-that-is-buffy/86509/103 "2001-10-18T17:02:26Z")
I think James Marsters is faking the hair color, too. And he’s probably faking the vampire part. Wait…could it be James Marsters is, not faking, but rather is an _actor?_ ---
**Author:** ![Peta\_Tzunami](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b487fb/32.png) [@Peta\_Tzunami](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peta_Tzunami)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2001, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-sucking-void-of-pain-that-is-buffy/86509/104 "2001-10-18T17:32:44Z")
> [@](#): > > **Stoid** Okay, what’s all this “Ripper” jive with Giles? FX just showed the Halloween episode with the weird costume guy that Giles knows, who knows Giles and “What he’s capable of” - it sounded like he was calling Giles both Rupert and Ripper, or maybe I was just projecting…WTF? > > (I adore Giles) Okay, wait – you haven’t seen “Band Candy” yet, have you? \ You are IN for a major TREAT! How about the episode in which Giles (Tony) sings? ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2001, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-sucking-void-of-pain-that-is-buffy/86509/105 "2001-10-18T19:54:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fiver \* > [B > Wait…could it be James Marsters is, not faking, but rather is an _actor?_ \*\* 😕 > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Peta Tzunami \* > \*\* > You are IN for a major TREAT! > > How about the episode in which Giles (Tony) sings? \*\* Haven’t seen THAT, either. I must say BTVS does a great job of keeping one coming back to see what happens next. Especially since I have you guys dropping all these hints \*\* and \*\* I’m watching the new season as well. Having it on 5 nights a week is fun…reminds me of when my ex-boyfriend got me into \* Star Trek: The Next Generation \* after it had already been on for more than five years: he had all five years on tape! I got to watch as much as I wanted as quickly as I wanted, so once I was hooked (about 3 eps in) I could slake my thirst easily, no waiting weeks and months. stoid confirmed Buffyhead ---
**Author:** ![Saltire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saltire/32/553_2.png) [@Saltire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saltire)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2001, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-sucking-void-of-pain-that-is-buffy/86509/106 "2001-10-18T21:21:25Z")
People keep mentioning the problem with the way that the Scoobies don’t seem to have jobs. We saw in this weeks episode that Buffy is having money troubles. In the ‘scenes from next week’, we saw Buffy working in construction with Xander. The have her looking all cute in a hard hat, and walking around with a huge girder on her shoulder. So, hopefully they’ll deal with this weakness in the show. Of course, it will probably mainly be dealt with in a campy, humorous way. Those expecting a real school-of-hard-knocks sort of treatment aren’t going to see it. Personally, I think Buffy at least will eventually have all this worry taken away. I see four possibilities: [ul][li]The Watchers Council starts paying the bills. This would cause a loss of autonomy that Buffy and Giles wouldn’t like much.[/li][li]Angel comes through with some cash. It’s never quite clear whether he has some socked away from years of vamping.[/li][li]Spike does the same. He seems more likely to be broke, but he may turn out to have a nest egg that he’s willing to use to support the slayer and her lil sis.[/li][li]When she finally nails the geek trio, she keeps the money the demon stole for them in this week’s episode. Sure, that would be morally wrong, but she’s got reason not to do that bank any favors.[/li] [/ul] ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2001, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-sucking-void-of-pain-that-is-buffy/86509/107 "2001-10-18T21:24:05Z")
This has great potential to be Jump the Shark material. Although I generally trust Joss, this has me squirming a bit. Still, they pulled off an episode where no one talked, so this is possible, but think of all the bad “singing episodes” of shows past. Needless to say, I’ll continue watching. It’s not like I have a choice. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2001, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-sucking-void-of-pain-that-is-buffy/86509/108 "2001-10-18T21:25:23Z")
A couple quick thoughts: I fully understand Willow’s concern that Buffy was in hell, and her desire to bring Buffy out of it. The whole reason Buffy had to die was to close the rift into the hell dimension that Glory was from; so Buffy launched herself into that rift. Willow, quite understandably, thought that Buffy’s soul was then trapped in the hell dimension. Not the hell of the afterlife for bad people, but an alternate hell dimension. That’s why Willow wanted to “rescue” Buffy. > [@](#): > > I don’t get it…what the hell are they gonna do to lightne Buffy up now? Every time I look at her, I see a completely depressed woman who was ripped from the safety and joy of heaven, how much of a drag is that? I thought Tuesday’s episode showed that Buffy is, in fact, a little lightened up. She accepts what happened to her and in fact is getting a little sick of everyone’s hyperconcern for her mental health. She’s on her way to getting much better. > [@](#): > > Although I like the nice Spike better than the evil Spike. NNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! When Buffy is at it’s best, it has wonderful bad guys. I don’t want the whole “power corrupts” Willow turning evil stuff, and then she comes back to the side of good (thank you George Lucas. I want that stupid chip to come out of Spike’s head, and he goes back to being the really cool, smart, evil vampire who has killed 2(?) other slayers. I was really hoping that Spike’s whole unrequited love of Buffy was going to help turn him into a real evil baddie. I don’t need another Vamp loves Buffy, Buffy loves Vamp. Been there done that. Give me Spike using all he knows about the Scoobies to make their lives hell. Yeah, Long Live Evil Spike!!! ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2001, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-sucking-void-of-pain-that-is-buffy/86509/109 "2001-10-18T21:30:58Z")
A couple quick thoughts: I fully understand Willow’s concern that Buffy was in hell, and her desire to bring Buffy out of it. The whole reason Buffy had to die was to close the rift into the hell dimension that Glory was from; so Buffy launched herself into that rift. Willow, quite understandably, thought that Buffy’s soul was then trapped in the hell dimension. Not the hell of the afterlife for bad people, but an alternate hell dimension. That’s why Willow wanted to “rescue” Buffy. > [@](#): > > I don’t get it…what the hell are they gonna do to lightne Buffy up now? Every time I look at her, I see a completely depressed woman who was ripped from the safety and joy of heaven, how much of a drag is that? I thought Tuesday’s episode showed that Buffy is, in fact, a little lightened up. She accepts what happened to her and in fact is getting a little sick of everyone’s hyperconcern for her mental health. She’s on her way to getting much better. > [@](#): > > Although I like the nice Spike better than the evil Spike. NNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! When Buffy is at it’s best, it has wonderful bad guys. I don’t want the whole “power corrupts” Willow turning evil stuff, and then she comes back to the side of good (thank you George Lucas. I want that stupid chip to come out of Spike’s head, and he goes back to being the really cool, smart, evil vampire who has killed 2(?) other slayers. I was really hoping that Spike’s whole unrequited love of Buffy was going to help turn him into a real evil baddie. I don’t need another Vamp loves Buffy, Buffy loves Vamp. Been there done that. Give me Spike using all he knows about the Scoobies to make their lives hell. Yeah, Long Live Evil Spike!!! ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2001, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-sucking-void-of-pain-that-is-buffy/86509/110 "2001-10-18T21:49:30Z")
I can’t wait to find out how Spike gets a chip implanted in his head. Say wha’? And I’m dying to know if Angel and Buffy ever get down and do the nasty! I was always put off by Anne Rice’s view of vampires as these sexless beings who get all their jollies from bloodsucking. No fun. Bumpin’ uglies is where its at. stoid ---
**Author:** ![Gozu\_Tashoya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7993a0/32.png) [@Gozu\_Tashoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gozu_Tashoya)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2001, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-sucking-void-of-pain-that-is-buffy/86509/111 "2001-10-18T22:39:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Stoid \* > \*\*And I’m dying to know if Angel and Buffy ever get down and do the nasty! I was always put off by Anne Rice’s view of vampires as these sexless beings who get all their jollies from bloodsucking. No fun. Bumpin’ uglies is where its at. > > stoid \*\* “I thought vampires didn’t do sex.” “Common misconception. With a good commercial lubricant, we can go on for days.” ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2001, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-sucking-void-of-pain-that-is-buffy/86509/112 "2001-10-18T22:45:53Z")
What are you quoting, K? ---
**Author:** ![Chocobo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/898d66/32.png) [@Chocobo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chocobo)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2001, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-sucking-void-of-pain-that-is-buffy/86509/113 "2001-10-19T00:04:57Z")
On Giles as Ripper, has anyone made the connection to Jack the Ripper? I mean, he’s english, he obviously has a mean streak based on his fight with the Costume Shop guy (I don’t remember his name, was it Ethan?)…and the Costume shop guy was making comments about how no one knew who he really was and even referred to him as ‘The Ripper’. He even made some jab about how old he really was. I’m an FX watcher, so I haven’t seen many eps. from season 3-5, but it seems to make sense with what I’ve seen so far. Thoughts? ---
**Author:** ![Peta\_Tzunami](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b487fb/32.png) [@Peta\_Tzunami](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peta_Tzunami)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2001, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-sucking-void-of-pain-that-is-buffy/86509/114 "2001-10-19T00:51:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Telemark \* > **This has great potential to be Jump the Shark material. Although I generally trust Joss, this has me squirming a bit. Still, they pulled off an episode where no one talked, so this is possible, but think of all the bad “singing episodes” of shows past.** I was going to compare it to “Hush” as well. I don’t think it’s a chance at _jumping the shark_, I just think Joss loves to throw in unique, edgy or unusual gimmicks occasionally to break up the **darkness** of the continuing story line – to keep it from being too soap opera-like, I believe as he says… > [@](#): > > **Hamlet wrote:** The whole reason Buffy had to die was to close the rift into the hell dimension that Glory was from Just a small nitpick – it wasn’t just Glory’s hell dimension – the storyline said the walls between ALL realities (difference dimensions) were be broken down by the key allowing Glory to return to her hell-dimension. That being the case, you couldn’t necessarily assume it was a hell dimension Buffy ended up in. > [@](#): > > **Hamlet then wrote:** I don’t need another Vamp loves Buffy, Buffy loves Vamp. Been there done that. Give me Spike using all he knows about the Scoobies to make their lives hell. Yeah, Long Live Evil Spike!!! While I can see and emphathize with you over the Vamp loves Buffy loves Vamp cycle, Spike tries to kill the Slayer and fails (“Hijinks ensue”) is for me a \ been there done that, done that, done that…oh, and done that! I’d like to see where they’re going with it since I doubt Buffy will love a vamp who is without a soul. I also suspect the visit with Angel alluded to at the end of the episode (not shown, of course, due to different networks) will give Buffy some perspective towards the moving on up to a job lighter episode they teased. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2001, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-sucking-void-of-pain-that-is-buffy/86509/115 "2001-10-19T03:16:05Z")
Just a thought, isn’t Angel owed something from the Powers that Be after being Darla’s (?) champion in the test? Could he redeem that chit now? On reflection, I don’t think it would apply here, but I’m trying to think of a way Buffy can lose the pain. Maybe forget what it was like in heaven. Angel would be willing to sacrifice a lot to ease her pain, but alas, I can’t see this plot hook working. Back to the drawing board. ---
**Author:** ![Gozu\_Tashoya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7993a0/32.png) [@Gozu\_Tashoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gozu_Tashoya)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2001, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-sucking-void-of-pain-that-is-buffy/86509/116 "2001-10-19T03:38:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Stoid \* > \*\*What are you quoting, K? \*\* [Modern Vampires](http://us.imdb.com/Title?0120805). It’s very campy - starring Casper Van Dien who, in this role, at least, couldn’t act his way out of wet tissue paper - but featuring some cool lines. (And my ex-roommate huffing paint.) ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2001, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-sucking-void-of-pain-that-is-buffy/86509/117 "2001-10-19T05:23:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Legomancer \* > **no, vamp Willow wasn’t gay, she was highly sexualized about everything - recall that she was hot for vamp Xander and Angel and pretty much anything that looked like it might provide adequate friction** Welll… If regular Willow is gay, then vamp Willow is also gay, because she is what would have happened if Buffy hadn’t saved her life back in episode one. I don’t think vampirism changes your sexual orientation, unless you count “slut” as an orientation. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Frink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Mr.Frink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Frink)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2001, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-sucking-void-of-pain-that-is-buffy/86509/118 "2001-10-19T07:09:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Peta Tzunami \* > > I also suspect the visit with Angel alluded to at the end of the episode (not shown, of course, due to different networks) will give Buffy some perspective towards the moving on up to a job lighter episode they teased. \*\* I like how she described their meeting place. He’s not coming to Sunnydale–she’s not going to LA. They’re going to meet “somewhere in between”. Well, **Buffy** ’s on channel 4, and **Angel** is on channel 6…maybe there’s a chance they’ll do a crossover show on channel 5? ---
**Author:** ![PatrickM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7feea3/32.png) [@PatrickM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickM)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2001, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-sucking-void-of-pain-that-is-buffy/86509/119 "2001-10-19T14:32:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Legomancer \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by PatrickM \* > > \*\*I loved “Flooded” and have at least a partial solution to Buffy’s money woes: she should charge Willow and Tara rent. \*\* > > They don’t have jobs either. \*\* That should be their problem, not Buffy’s. Let 'em get jobs for Pete’s sake. Just because they’re powerful witches doesn’t mean they get to mooch. Have Willow conjure up some cold hard cash. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7feea3/32.png) [@PatrickM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickM)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2001, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-sucking-void-of-pain-that-is-buffy/86509/120 "2001-10-19T14:35:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by frinkboy \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Peta Tzunami \* > > > > I also suspect the visit with Angel alluded to at the end of the episode (not shown, of course, due to different networks) will give Buffy some perspective towards the moving on up to a job lighter episode they teased. \*\* > > I like how she described their meeting place. He’s not coming to Sunnydale–she’s not going to LA. They’re going to meet “somewhere in between”. Well, **Buffy** ’s on channel 4, and **Angel** is on channel 6…maybe there’s a chance they’ll do a crossover show on channel 5? \*\* Very funny. Actually, we know that Sunnydale is on the coast and is about 2 hours or so from LA. If my California geography is correct, that means that Buffy and Angel are going to have an off camera rendezvous in Pismo Beach. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-sucking-void-of-pain-that-is-buffy/86509.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/big-sucking-void-of-pain-that-is-buffy/86509.md?page=7)